Nuclear Blasts where People Died...


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So I was thinking something earlier- I know because I was there- and it got me thinking about nuclear explosions.

Besides the obvious drops on Japan in 1945 and possibly Chernobyl, what are some significant explosions where a number of people died?


Well, actually... none. Radiation damage is a very rare thing. Science is still not certain how it affects the body or how much is harmful to humans. And, all of the cases that have happened (beyond Hiroshima and Nagasaki) are due to processes other than nuclear weapons. The closest you can get are the few nuclear plants that have stopped working, Chernobyl primarily, some say Fukushima also caused serious radiation damage. Now, of course, it is quite possible the nuclear tests irradiated people, but I doubt any such data have reached general circulation.


Sissyl wrote:
Well, actually... none. Radiation damage is a very rare thing. Science is still not certain how it affects the body or how much is harmful to humans. And, all of the cases that have happened (beyond Hiroshima and Nagasaki) are due to processes other than nuclear weapons. The closest you can get are the few nuclear plants that have stopped working, Chernobyl primarily, some say Fukushima also caused serious radiation damage. Now, of course, it is quite possible the nuclear tests irradiated people, but I doubt any such data have reached general circulation.

I was getting that impression. I might have to rework the idea I was going with.


May I ask what it was?


I had the idea that the nuclear blasts created a pocket dimension and some of the people who were said to have died in the blasts actually ended up in the pocket dimension. The dimension would be expanded with subsequent blasts.

Dark Archive

Well, Hiroshima and Nakasashi come to mind.

Liberty's Edge

I am not aware of any nuclear tests that directly killed people. So other than Hiroshima and Nagasaki, none. I believe some of the tests caused radiation poisoning, but I'm not sure.

Chernobyl was a steam explosion, not a nuclear explosion.


Um, there was a nuclear weapons test in the Pacific in the 1950s that irradiated a bunch of Japanese fishermen when the wind blew the wrong way. It killed them pretty good (within a few days to a week). If you're looking for large-scale (1000+) death, only Hiroshima/Nagasaki come to mind readily. You could do some research (wikipedia-level-stuff) on tests in the Pacific if you're interested. Might find something.

Liberty's Edge

Which is still not directly caused by the explosion. He's talking about people killed by the blast itself. Particularly those killed by the thermal effects where there's no body left.


Sounds like a neat idea. Well, if people would be okay with playing japanese, you have two blasts they could have come from. Also, time could easily be completely f$@@ed up, and the test blasts would still gather terrain for the pocket dimension. Not to mention fishes and animals, and why not mutated?


You'd have plenty of pigs. The US LOVED to nuke pigs.


And the japanese victims would be mutated too, of course. Another idea: What if the blast made the area unstable, so that people getting into the center after the fact, even dozens of years later, could still get sucked into the pocket dimension? And, what if each blast created SOMETHING in there, some sort of intelligence?


Sissyl wrote:
Sounds like a neat idea. Well, if people would be okay with playing japanese, you have two blasts they could have come from. Also, time could easily be completely f+#+ed up, and the test blasts would still gather terrain for the pocket dimension. Not to mention fishes and animals, and why not mutated?

I was actually thinking that the tests could add terrain.

I also like your other ideas. Perhaps any area awash in enough energy becomes a weak point that can be crossed?


I believe such an idea was used for the old TSR/WotC D-20 system Dark Matter. Nuclear Detonations weaken the fabric of reality enough for things to step through. Bering Demons, I believe they were called.


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Kindred of the East had something similar.

Liberty's Edge

World of Darkness in general had that, but it was more a strong corrupting effect of that much destruction poisoning the spirit realm.

There was a few book arc in the Ghostbusters comic that had something similar with the boys in grey wearing power suits and recovering an atomic bomb from a demon's castle in a pocket dimension.


Another thought... If the blasts added terrain, did the first bomb create the plane, or was there already an ancient core? What would such a place look like? Has there been old ways to cross over, now closed, or was it an inhuman, twisted realm of some myth, that is now spreading through the entire plane? Surtr (the black) and Muspellheim would probably fit the bill.


Sissyl wrote:
Another thought... If the blasts added terrain, did the first bomb create the plane, or was there already an ancient core? What would such a place look like? Has there been old ways to cross over, now closed, or was it an inhuman, twisted realm of some myth, that is now spreading through the entire plane? Surtr (the black) and Muspellheim would probably fit the bill.

I was thinking that the blasts tore a hole in the spirit realm creating the plane. So it is not directly tied directly to any one mythology.

In the midst of all this brain storming I have a line bubbling in my brain "If you could get home would you?"


I believe there were towns in the Soviet Union that were used as testing grounds for radiation exposure, if not intentionally (at first), then incidentally after underground nuclear device testing was done. The primary result I'm aware of was a spike in pregnancy complications, and I've seen footage purported to be of a research facility there where there are shelves lining the walls stocked with jars containing malformed foetuses.

It's a bit gruesome really, and brings to mind the secret experiments that other countries have secretly conducted on unsuspecting citizens.


I'm just going to leave this here.

The Exchange

There's a place here in Australia called Maralinga. American forces tested nuclear weapons there quite extensively, and there's reasonable evidence to suggest that some of the Indiginous Australians were killed in the testing. There's also records of birth defects and high cancer rates in the indigenous population in the area as a consequence of the tests.

I believe the militaries of many governments had deaths associated with nuclear testing. Certainly in the early days where dangers of radioactive fallout wasn't well known.

There's also the famous manhatten project, which was a side project developed from nuclear weapons. The concept was to create magnetic invisibility I believe. There's a lot of myth around that one, but most of the stuff I've read on it mentions deaths.

Very few nuclear power plant accidents are actually nuclear explosions. They are chain reaction melt downs which cause over stressing of the coolant systems and mass heating of pressurised water. Its the water that explodes as steam, but they often damage the core and spread radioactive material over large areas, particulalry heavy water.

Even Hiroshima and Nagasaki caused more deaths from radiation after the blast than during I believe (though that's from memory rather than reliable source at this stage.)


Interestingly, science is uncertain what human tolerance to radiation looks like. We know that above a certain level, complications are pretty much linear, and come from the gut and the brain primarily, until sudden death dominates the image. However, radiation is not something that happens only in nuclear events. We always get solar radiation and background radiation, and more with X-ray procedures and travel by plane - and we're generally just fine anyway. So the issue that we don't know if we get damaged by low levels of radiation, despite serious work in trying to determine just that.

Liberty's Edge

The Manhattan Project was the project to develop the atomic bomb.

The Philadelphia Experiment is an urban legend that has nothing to do with nuclear science.

No nuclear power plant accident I'm aware of was a nuclear explosion, and I doubt there were any since the designs are almost diametrically opposed.


Isn't this Rifts rpg?


Wrath the tests at Maralinga were conducted by the British. Link.

Wiki entry.


Trigger Loaded wrote:
I believe such an idea was used for the old TSR/WotC D-20 system Dark Matter. Nuclear Detonations weaken the fabric of reality enough for things to step through. Bering Demons, I believe they were called.

I think Shadowrun did the same, at least in the older novels.


Sissyl wrote:
Kindred of the East had something similar.

A good, underrated book that is best enjoyed removed from the World of Darkness mythos entirely...although I greatly enjoy their take on Zhao-lot/Saulot.


Agreed.

Liberty's Edge

I played and ran a long troupe style game focused on family that expressly ignored the abdomition against not having everything hating everything else that is still some of my fondest gaming memories using an Osaka wu as base.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
The NPC wrote:

So I was thinking something earlier- I know because I was there- and it got me thinking about nuclear explosions.

Besides the obvious drops on Japan in 1945 and possibly Chernobyl, what are some significant explosions where a number of people died?

Several fisherman and quite a few villages received heavy doses of radioactive fallout when predictions about prevailing winds went considerably south during the Bikini bomb tests. Many would die of cancers induced by radiation. The United States would come under heavy criticism for using lands placed under it's trust, as atomic test sites.

Most cast and crew of the movie "The Conqueror", including star John Wayne would perish from radiation induced cancers caused by one of the open air bomb tests. Wayne was the last survivor.

Many of the first responders to both the Chernobyl and the Fukisama reactor disasters also contracted fatal does of radiaiton poisoning. Chernobyl's effects on the local environment even reached down to much of the soil bacteria, preventing much of the normal rotting processes of dead organic matter. Neither area will be safe for humans to dwell for tens, likely hundreds of centuries.

Liberty's Edge

None of whom were killed by gamma pulse, the thermal flash or blast wave and so were not directly killed by the explosion.

Really the OP wants nuclear explosions where people were vaporized, which means only Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and only a few hundred, maybe a thousand, at that.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Wrath wrote:


There's also the famous manhatten project, which was a side project developed from nuclear weapons. The concept was to create magnetic invisibility I believe. There's a lot of myth around that one, but most of the stuff I've read on it mentions deaths.

The Manhattan Project was the code name for the organization of the research directed to produce the first atomic weapon, the bulk of the work done at Los Alamos under the command of General Leslie Groves, and lead researcher Robert Oppenheimer. Despite it's tight security, Soviet spies were able to gather enough information to allow the Soviet's own batch of captured German scientists to replicate the bomb in fairly short order. The Manhattan Project also was in charge of the test at Bikini Atoll.

What you're thinking of is the hoax known as the Phileadelphia Experiment which has pretty much no factual basis behind it. It did make for a fairly mediocre made for TV film during the early 80's.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Krensky wrote:

None of whom were killed by gamma pulse, the thermal flash or blast wave and so were not directly killed by the explosion.

Really the OP wants nuclear explosions where people were vaporized, which means only Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and only a few hundred, maybe a thousand, at that.

That's not what he wrote. He asked for people who died due to nuclear explosions.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Sissyl wrote:
Interestingly, science is uncertain what human tolerance to radiation looks like. We know that above a certain level, complications are pretty much linear, and come from the gut and the brain primarily, until sudden death dominates the image. However, radiation is not something that happens only in nuclear events. We always get solar radiation and background radiation, and more with X-ray procedures and travel by plane - and we're generally just fine anyway. So the issue that we don't know if we get damaged by low levels of radiation, despite serious work in trying to determine just that.

There actually is a slime mold found in Canada which purposely colllects uranium ore and uses the heat of radioactive decay to ward off the cold.

If you stand in Grand Central Station in New York for a year, you will absorb radiation equal to 25 X-Rays, or the equivalent of swallowing a radium watch.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Scythia wrote:

I believe there were towns in the Soviet Union that were used as testing grounds for radiation exposure, if not intentionally (at first), then incidentally after underground nuclear device testing was done. The primary result I'm aware of was a spike in pregnancy complications, and I've seen footage purported to be of a research facility there where there are shelves lining the walls stocked with jars containing malformed foetuses.

It's a bit gruesome really, and brings to mind the secret experiments that other countries have secretly conducted on unsuspecting citizens.

You mean when the CIA started dosing people with LSD without their knowledge?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
The NPC wrote:
I had the idea that the nuclear blasts created a pocket dimension and some of the people who were said to have died in the blasts actually ended up in the pocket dimension. The dimension would be expanded with subsequent blasts.

So go ahead and run with it. You're essentially describing a science fantasy or Twilight Zone idea. You don't bother dragging the story down with scientific gobbledegook unless you're trying to pad things Trek style. If you watch somme classic Zone, you'll see that the better writers don't drag it down "explaining things".

Just write the story, if you can't make the story itself interesting, stuffing it with scientific gobbledegook won't save it any more it did many a bad Trek script.

What you're talking about is setting a stage.... it's the characters however that make or break the story, so forget about explaining the frame, and get on with drawing the picture within.


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LazarX wrote:
The NPC wrote:
I had the idea that the nuclear blasts created a pocket dimension and some of the people who were said to have died in the blasts actually ended up in the pocket dimension. The dimension would be expanded with subsequent blasts.

So go ahead and run with it. You're essentially describing a science fantasy or Twilight Zone idea. You don't bother dragging the story down with scientific gobbledegook unless you're trying to pad things Trek style. If you watch somme classic Zone, you'll see that the better writers don't drag it down "explaining things".

Just write the story, if you can't make the story itself interesting, stuffing it with scientific gobbledegook won't save it any more it did many a bad Trek script.

What you're talking about is setting a stage.... it's the characters however that make or break the story, so forget about explaining the frame, and get on with drawing the picture within.

It's always to to try and have a solid grounding but you make a fair point.

Dang it Trek, but I like you anyway.


Laz: He's also drawing inspiration, and that inspiration comes with the "explaining things" part. Sometimes it's just nicer to have a solid basis of explanation - if for no one else, for the GM. It allows you to be more internally consistent and to keep things sensible - less likely to make weird judgement calls that confuse the players that way.

Also...

LazarX wrote:
That's not what he wrote. He asked for people who died due to nuclear explosions.

Yes, but based on his idea, anything other than "people that were vaporized" makes no sense.

THAT SAID, it's quite interesting and educational to learn the other, and it might be very helpful.

Grim topic. Interesting idea.

EDIT: Ninja'd! Clarity.

Also, it sounds like an amazing adventure waiting to happen...
Finally, if you wanted to add more human diversity, while maintaining the history as close as possible: adding additional "tests", purposeful or accidental (or "accidental") people in range of various test blasts, prisoners or expatriates or even wartime visitors (rare as those are) and so on are all additional ways to add to the idea.


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Tacticslion wrote:
Grim topic. Interesting idea.

Bwahaha!


Wrath and 8th Dwarf. I read the links. That's actually pretty interesting. Thanks. Definitely usable.

Tactics. Thanks :) I like the idea of how to add more people. It would be one of those I make the insinuation and let others infer kind of things. I can dig it.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
The NPC wrote:
LazarX wrote:
The NPC wrote:
I had the idea that the nuclear blasts created a pocket dimension and some of the people who were said to have died in the blasts actually ended up in the pocket dimension. The dimension would be expanded with subsequent blasts.

So go ahead and run with it. You're essentially describing a science fantasy or Twilight Zone idea. You don't bother dragging the story down with scientific gobbledegook unless you're trying to pad things Trek style. If you watch somme classic Zone, you'll see that the better writers don't drag it down "explaining things".

Just write the story, if you can't make the story itself interesting, stuffing it with scientific gobbledegook won't save it any more it did many a bad Trek script.

What you're talking about is setting a stage.... it's the characters however that make or break the story, so forget about explaining the frame, and get on with drawing the picture within.

It's always to to try and have a solid grounding but you make a fair point.

Dang it Trek, but I like you anyway.

The only real test of a "solid grouding" is in it's verisimilitude, it's internal sense of consistency. As for explanations, minimialism is the key here. One classic example, the "Walking Dead" series. There's really no explanation of the origins of the zombie virus, and the series hasn't suffered for it's lack, actually that's one of the strongest elements of the setting that gives the genre a bit fresh air.

The Exchange

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Thanks for the corrections 8th dwarf, LazarX and Krensky. I've read around the topic but not for many years, and as with most things, it seems I've blended memories together.

Philadelphia experiment was indeed a myth/urban legend. A cool one though, and it might might work for your idea on new dimensions.

LazarX, Event Horizon from the 90's is basically just a science fiction future telling of the Philladelphia experiment too. Also a really good movie to wathc for inspiration for a horror based dimension opening event. I didn't like the movie all that much, but the concept was cool.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Wrath wrote:

Thanks for the corrections 8th dwarf, LazarX and Krensky. I've read around the topic but not for many years, and as with most things, it seems I've blended memories together.

Philadelphia experiment was indeed a myth/urban legend. A cool one though, and it might might work for your idea on new dimensions.

LazarX, Event Horizon from the 90's is basically just a science fiction future telling of the Philladelphia experiment too. Also a really good movie to wathc for inspiration for a horror based dimension opening event. I didn't like the movie all that much, but the concept was cool.

You'll also noticed that Event Horizon really didn't spend that much time "explaining" anything.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Krensky wrote:


No nuclear power plant accident I'm aware of was a nuclear explosion, and I doubt there were any since the designs are almost diametrically opposed.

That's correct. Nuclear power station accidents generally involve cascade failures involving the cooling system and the failsafes, resulting in a meltdown of the core material, which either melts it's way through the containment vessel and/or ruptures it due to superheated steam raising the pressure beyond the failure point. The first case can result in an explosion due to the core material encountering the water table. Both scenarios can involve a major release of radioactive material with some damm long half lives. into the environment. The Fukiyama incident had additional complications because of a major typhoon hitting the facility at the same time.

Google has a haunting Street View of the abandoned city.. It was pretty much a mandated hurry up and get out situation, with the residents not able to take much more than the clothes on their backs.

The Exchange

Theres a documentary out recently that was investigating the return of life to the Chernobyl region too. Apparently some of the larger mammals are coming back and aren't showing many signs of radioactive poisoning or genetic damage. It was done due to the surprise that scientists showed at how fast the radiation seems to have downgraded in the area.

I'll see if I can track down the name of it and link it here. Goes to show we still don't know as much about this stuff as we thought.


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LazarX wrote:
Chernobyl's effects on the local environment even reached down to much of the soil bacteria, preventing much of the normal rotting processes of dead organic matter. Neither area will be safe for humans to dwell for tens, likely hundreds of centuries.

The town by Chernobyl is safe to visit now, provided you stay mostly on the roads or other paved surfaces. While I wouldn't suggest moving your family tomarrow, it's looking like it won't exactly take millennia for the area to be inhabitable. A century (of which a third is already gone by) seems more likely.

Edit:

LazarX wrote:
You mean when the CIA started dosing people with LSD without their knowledge?

I was thinking more of when the government decided not to diagnose and denied treatment to minority syphilis victims in order to observe the progression.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Wrath wrote:

Theres a documentary out recently that was investigating the return of life to the Chernobyl region too. Apparently some of the larger mammals are coming back and aren't showing many signs of radioactive poisoning or genetic damage. It was done due to the surprise that scientists showed at how fast the radiation seems to have downgraded in the area.

I'll see if I can track down the name of it and link it here. Goes to show we still don't know as much about this stuff as we thought.

We still have (thankfully) a rather small data set when it comes to dumping radioactive material over large areas. Keep in mind though some animals are more naturally resistant than others due to quirks in their physiology. The area still has a strange absence of soil bacteria which is preventing the normal rotting of organic material in places.

Humans however are on the delicate side of radiation exposure. Even when most of the effects do die off, the area will continue to generate cancer clusters and birth defects for a long time if people settle back.


The NPC wrote:

So I was thinking something earlier- I know because I was there- and it got me thinking about nuclear explosions.

Besides the obvious drops on Japan in 1945 and possibly Chernobyl, what are some significant explosions where a number of people died?

Chernobyl wasn't a nuclear explosion.

I remember one character in Snow Crash was motivated by anger that the Aleuts had been recklessly exposed to American bomb testing - I don't know if that's based in historical fact or not, but might be worth a look.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Bill McGrath wrote:
The NPC wrote:

So I was thinking something earlier- I know because I was there- and it got me thinking about nuclear explosions.

Besides the obvious drops on Japan in 1945 and possibly Chernobyl, what are some significant explosions where a number of people died?

Chernobyl wasn't a nuclear explosion.

I remember one character in Snow Crash was motivated by anger that the Aleuts had been recklessly exposed to American bomb testing - I don't know if that's based in historical fact or not, but might be worth a look.

We sure did. The U.S. conducted three tests on one island. The area is still being monitored for radioactive leakage into the soil today.


The NPC wrote:

So I was thinking something earlier- I know because I was there- and it got me thinking about nuclear explosions.

Besides the obvious drops on Japan in 1945 and possibly Chernobyl, what are some significant explosions where a number of people died?

It's not really what you are talking about but there was an accident at SL-1 in Idaho decades ago that killed a few people.

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