Legacy of 3.5 (which is where the Gestalt character rules are from).
In 3.5, you didn't get a +3 bonus for the first skill point in a class skill -- instead you got four times as many skill points at first level, so you could buy four levels of skill at first level. But you could also buy one level (as in, +1) of four times as many skills, if you were trying to build a jack-of-all-trades type.
The main difference was that "cross-class" skills cost two points per level, not one point.
So in Pathfinder, you get your ordinary level of skill points, but there's a bonus of +3 to trained class skills. In 3.5 you just put more points in to get the same level of skill, but you also got a bonus to the number of points.
If you want to house-rule that you get normal skill points but you also get the +3 bonus to class skills, that's probably the simplest way to do it. Especially as gestalt is all house rules anyway.
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I actually think 3.5 did a better job over all. PF did simplify thing but simple isn't always better.
I like the way Skill Ranks worked in 3.5, but I like the way other books and PF cut down on some skills. Having #+ Int x4 Skill Points at earlier levels really allowed so much more customization that Pathfinder lacks, and the minimal reduction of skills just isn't enough for me to favor it.
But, if you want to use Gestalt in PF, all you have to do is take the two classes and use the higher of the #+Int for skill points. Any skill that either class has is a Class Skill.
I actually think 3.5 did a better job over all. PF did simplify thing but simple isn't always better.
I like the way Skill Ranks worked in 3.5, but I like the way other books and PF cut down on some skills. Having #+ Int x4 Skill Points at earlier levels really allowed so much more customization that Pathfinder lacks, and the minimal reduction of skills just isn't enough for me to favor it.
But, if you want to use Gestalt in PF, all you have to do is take the two classes and use the higher of the #+Int for skill points. Any skill that either class has is a Class Skill.
This I agree with. I really like the overall skill changes but I miss 4x skills at first level. I think in my next game I will change back.
The thing is 1 point in a class skill at level in PF is the equivalent 4 points in a class skill at level one in 3.5. Untrained in a class skill in PF is 3 points better than in 3.5. Cross class in 3.5 was so poor a choice it might as well not have been an option.
So all you're really missing by not having the 4x at level one is a little flavor, but instead you get a lot better functionality.
The big problem was buying off class skills at half. Getting rid of that was a big improvement. But I think the +3 class skill instead of 4x skills at character creation Causes a problem. It removes versatility and choices in favor of simplicity.
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Like I said, "Simple" isn't the same thing as "Better".
:)
It really just depends on how much you enjoy messing with numbers and stating out your character. If you want simple, than PF is more likely your preference. If you like to be able to build things more complex, 3.5 is probably your preference. I personally find 3.5 t be the better, tighter, and much better balanced game. Both have bloat. Both have strong and weak points. WotC, I feel tried to fix them while Paizo tries to sweep them under the rug.
Changing it to x4 instead of 1+3 is a minimal change without many problems in it. The only thing you have to take into account is the special bonuses granted (such as languages from linguistics, dodge bonus from acrobatics when fighting defensively and so on) by a certain amount of ranks should require 3 higher ranks and any requirements for feats/prestige classes should be heightened in the same manor.The big problem was buying off class skills at half. Getting rid of that was a big improvement. But I think the +3 class skill instead of 4x skills at character creation Causes a problem. It removes versatility and choices in favor of simplicity.The thing is 1 point in a class skill at level in PF is the equivalent 4 points in a class skill at level one in 3.5. Untrained in a class skill in PF is 3 points better than in 3.5. Cross class in 3.5 was so poor a choice it might as well not have been an option.
So all you're really missing by not having the 4x at level one is a little flavor, but instead you get a lot better functionality.
Yeah, I understand that. And that is all well and good if you were going to max out ranks in a handful of skills. Some people would rather have less ranks in a wider variety of skills. Those people have options taken away particularly in classes that get 2 skills only, and extra particular for the fighter who is probably putting his only skill point in an off-class skill.
If you do that without changing back to the 1/2 cross-class there is no difference between class skill and cross-class skill, and that is a pretty big problem.Changing it to x4 instead of 1+3 is a minimal change without many problems in it. The only thing you have to take into account is the special bonuses granted (such as languages from linguistics, dodge bonus from acrobatics when fighting defensively and so on) by a certain amount of ranks should require 3 higher ranks and any requirements for feats/prestige classes should be heightened in the same manor.The big problem was buying off class skills at half. Getting rid of that was a big improvement. But I think the +3 class skill instead of 4x skills at character creation Causes a problem. It removes versatility and choices in favor of simplicity.The thing is 1 point in a class skill at level in PF is the equivalent 4 points in a class skill at level one in 3.5. Untrained in a class skill in PF is 3 points better than in 3.5. Cross class in 3.5 was so poor a choice it might as well not have been an option.
So all you're really missing by not having the 4x at level one is a little flavor, but instead you get a lot better functionality.
Meh, I think that class skills are overrated. I think I may remove them entirely.
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The thing is 1 point in a class skill at level 1 in PF is the equivalent 4 points in a class skill at level one in 3.5. Untrained in a class skill in PF is 3 points better than in 3.5. Cross class in 3.5 was so poor a choice it might as well not have been an option.
Not really. It allowed you to do things like "my Fighter used to be a leg breaker, so I want a little bit in Disable Device/Open Locks", but I don't want to be great at it". Having a larger pool to divvy up as needed has much more of an impact if you want to branch out, which can be impossible in PF. If your Half-Orc Fighter with 2 Int in PF (barring Favored Class) wants to do that, they have only a single other Skill point to spend on everything else.
So the extremes are better in PF, but the middle ground of diversifying is hands-down better in 3.5. The PF Skills System really just favors either Int based Characters or those that already have a bunch of Skill Points and/or Class Skills. It's much worse for those classes that don't, though, a it forces you to do the 3.5 equivalent of Max Ranks in Min Skills.