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Hi so I am still a bit of a rookie at being DM and even more so at understanding the loopholes of Pathfinder. Was running a session last night and one of the things my PC's found in their research was a burned diary.
The idea was they would have to use what they knew to put forth inferences.
However according to them they claim a make whole spell would be enough to not only restore the page that was burned but also restore the writing as well. I mean at this rate the rest of the diary they dont have might as be restored as well which seems weird in my opinion.
Make whole says how it fixes magic items and how to heal constructs but can it restore a page of a book burned over 800 years ago? With the writing included?
Thanks everyone
They meet the casting requirements of the spell. Valid target, range, etc.
Make Whole references the mending spell which states: All of the pieces of an object must be present for this spell to function. So you could make a case that because page(s) were specifically removed the spell doesn't work.
I see 3 results - GM's call:
1) Spell fails because a piece is missing. Too strict for my personal liking - devalues the spell.
2) Spell works and the diary is fully restored to its original glory including all text, even on missing pages. Probably too generous especially if it is a plot hook.
3) The present parts of the diary are restored to pristine condition. The cover is clean and free from defects, it looks new, not 800 years old. Any pages that were smudged from water damage and the like are restored and the print as fresh as the day it was penned. BUT missing pages are still missing (or are present, but blank).
Bottom line is GM call. I like option 3.
I would say that it would depend on what exactly the players found. If they found a diary with missing pages, and the ashes of those pages were not there then the spell will fail. If on the other hand they find the diary in the fire place where it had been burned and all the ashes of the diary are present the spell will work. If the ashes of the diary have been sitting around for 800 years it is a GM’’s call as to how much is there.
If the spell works it will restore the writing, but again any parts missing will not be restored. As a GM I would probably allow it to work. If restoring the diary would ruin the adventure then I would say that there was some missing ashes and allow only part of it to work. The missing parts would of course be the parts that would ruin the adventure. I would still give them some information from the diary because I like to encourage players to use creativity.
Keep in mind that as a GM you are the one in control of the game. If you don’t want something to happen than it does not happen period. Just don’t abuse it and use it as a cheap way to get your way. Be subtle about it and if you do it right the players will never know.
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I'm not so sure it would restore the writing. If it were a book book that had come off the printer that way but this is a diary. That means the book your restoring is the original blank copy they wrote in. That is you need to ask whether mending the book will get rid of the ink stains it picked up after it was bought.
I'm not so sure it would restore the writing. If it were a book book that had come off the printer that way but this is a diary. That means the book your restoring is the original blank copy they wrote in. That is you need to ask whether mending the book will get rid of the ink stains it picked up after it was bought.
I second this thought. Writing on something could be considered damage and casting "Make Whole" would conceivable erase the enitre thing, IF all the pieces are present. If the whole point of the adventure was to use the journal as a clue to progress the plot, reward your party by handing them extra information (three clues, instead of 1), by having the spell partially fail (it cleans up some of the pages so that they are clearly readable, other pages are blank and pristine, still others are just missing).
They meet the casting requirements of the spell. Valid target, range, etc.
Make Whole references the mending spell which states: All of the pieces of an object must be present for this spell to function. So you could make a case that because page(s) were specifically removed the spell doesn't work.
I see 3 results - GM's call:
1) Spell fails because a piece is missing. Too strict for my personal liking - devalues the spell.
2) Spell works and the diary is fully restored to its original glory including all text, even on missing pages. Probably too generous especially if it is a plot hook.
3) The present parts of the diary are restored to pristine condition. The cover is clean and free from defects, it looks new, not 800 years old. Any pages that were smudged from water damage and the like are restored and the print as fresh as the day it was penned. BUT missing pages are still missing (or are present, but blank).Bottom line is GM call. I like option 3.
Option 2 might be viable if preceded by a potent divination spell.
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I don't think Mending would erase writing. You don't deal points of damage to a diary by writing in it, and that's what Mending does: repair points damage.
Besides, erasing pages is what the Erase spell is for.
That's the question though how does it restore things in your game? Soot, smudges and water damage aren't hp damage either. Enough water damage however can render something unreadable, spilling a jar of ink on a book can ruin it as it soaks through the pages, smoke Cann damage something without burning it. If you restore all those conditions then logically you should remove writing that's not part of the original product. If you don't remove the ink stains/writing then you shouldn't remove sort, water marks, ink stains or any other damage that doesn't cause hp damage.
Erase will erase an originally printed page as well as a handwritten one. This spell restores the originally printed page or the original blank one depending on what the initial product was meant to be.
Option 2 might be viable if preceded by a potent divination spell.They meet the casting requirements of the spell. Valid target, range, etc.
Make Whole references the mending spell which states: All of the pieces of an object must be present for this spell to function. So you could make a case that because page(s) were specifically removed the spell doesn't work.
I see 3 results - GM's call:
1) Spell fails because a piece is missing. Too strict for my personal liking - devalues the spell.
2) Spell works and the diary is fully restored to its original glory including all text, even on missing pages. Probably too generous especially if it is a plot hook.
3) The present parts of the diary are restored to pristine condition. The cover is clean and free from defects, it looks new, not 800 years old. Any pages that were smudged from water damage and the like are restored and the print as fresh as the day it was penned. BUT missing pages are still missing (or are present, but blank).Bottom line is GM call. I like option 3.
Yes! That would totally work in my game.
A diary is designed to hold writing. Writing is usually easy to see. I think, because the writing becomes part of the book, it should be cleaned up. However, if the writing is originally barely there, I could see it being treated as 'damage'.
I favor option #3.
/cevah
Thanks Guys this really helped me clear up a lot. Much appreciated.
When matter is burned, it changes form and is dispersed in the air. If the book had just been burned and the smoke was around it, all matter would be present. But if a book was burned a long time ago, the matter is no longer present to restore it. Faded pages could become legible, but beyond that I don't think make whole should work here.
Hi phaeradox, welcome to the forums.
If you take a look above each post to the right of the screen you'll see a time and date. Feel free to comment on old threads, but chances are the people you're replying to won't see your post. Also if you are commenting on old threads expect everyone to jump in and start talking about "thread necromancy".
PS I like your name