johnnythexxxiv |
Stingchucks count as splash weapons but I'm having a hard time visualizing how you get the bonus damage for them, especially since they have kind of weird phrasing on their mechanics.
On a related note, would raging brutality apply to splash attacks?
Zwordsman |
I would say yes bonus damage to sting chucks.
but i know more than a few people o nthe boards and a few GM's who would not allow it due to the "acts as" line. I personally feel that in general if it says "as if, acts as" etc it should just count fully for the sake of clarity. It would only add ot the initial 1d6 splash damage, Not the extra. So an alchemist with a +5 Int. would do 1d4+1d6+Int5 to the main target. Then. 6 to the splash effected.
Is how I view it. It's weird fluff.. .but yo ucould easily say its' because you know how to throw them or spin it or shack it first, in a way that makes the vermin inside extra angry resulting in more damage. Or what have you. Fluff is after mechanics in cases such as these after all. It could even just be a whistle you know that irratates them.
raging brutality i weird.. i don't understand..
How do you use power attack with a thrown weapon? Does it just mean.. reduce the to hit by the penalty of power attack? I guess you techincally are not using power attack.. you are just required to have it. and presumably apply a like penalty...
but assuming that whole thing works? It would add damage to the whole shebang techically. As splash damage is always the min of the main damage.
but do ask your Gm. because again, I know plenty who only allow specific things to boost the splash damage. (i.e. i know some who allow point blank shot to boost some don't)
but at the very least it would apply to the main target.. ask the gm for the rest but pretty sure it should
Diego Rossi |
The way the Stingchucks damage his target is a bit weird, but the alchemist bonus should apply.
Raging brutality: first, you need to have a way to apply power attack to throw weapons. That can't be done normally at is say: "You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack".
Then there is this other piece of power attack: "The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks" and splash weapons make ranged touch attacks.
I don't see how it could work.
johnnythexxxiv |
Would either of strength or int be added into the bludgeoning damage from the stingchucks?
You can power attack on thrown attacks and probably splash attacks (identical mechanics without the same name) with the lesser hurling rage power, so that part of the raging brutality issue can be circumvented, but it's still far from clear as to whether and where the damage can be applied (does it get added to the bludgeoning damage, the splash damage, neither or both?)
Zwordsman |
I don't think the extra damage is applied to the bludgeon; that porion is not splash damage.
ah.. interesting I hadn't seen that throwing before. ... honestly this is a weird case.. power attack doesn't specify it can be used with touch attacks. Which splash weapons are one of. BUT. the barbarian things allows it to be applied to thrown items in specific.. which this is one. So you could view it as bypassing it. or yo ucould read it as not
I personally? I would not allowe the bonus from pwr attack to power up the splash, nor the con damage. I would however. allow those damabe bonuses to the bludegon portion --as that is not the splash weapon damage its just impact damage..
but this is really my thought.. thats a weird weird case
DrakeRoberts |
A slight hijack of a dead thread, but my questions come from pursuing an alchemist using stingchucks as well.
Do stingchucks target normal AC or touch AC? Do you roll to see where it lands on a miss as though using the throw splash weapon action?
Also, it would seem to me that your Strength would normally be added to the Stingchuck damage. I'm having some issues, though, telling if this is a "Thrown Weapon", a "Splash Weapon", or both... or part one and part the other.
Let's say, for the sake of completeness, I had a Far Strike Monk 1/Alchemist 1 with Stingchucks. This gives him Flurry with thrown weapons, Quick Draw, the Throw Anything feat (which includes a +1 to attack rolls with thrown splash weapons), +Int mod added to splash weapon damage (including the splash damage), and lets have him get Splash Weapon Mastery for his first level feat.
How would this play out in practice? which of these steps are/aren't valid?
1) quick draw the stingchucks
2) flurry with stingchucks
3) does far shot apply? (splash weapons only - from splash mastery)
4) attack gets +1 to thrown splash weapons via Throw Anything
5) attack targets normal AC? touch AC?
5.1) On hit
5.1.1) target takes 1d4+str bludgeoning damage
5.1.2) target takes 1d6+int damage from bugs, makes fort save vs nauseated
5.1.3) creatures adjacent to target, plus in 1 square adjacent to that (splash weapon mastery) take 1+int splash damage
5.1.4) if nauseated, main target takes 1 damage each round until not (does this get the int mod? opinion above is no)
5.2) On miss
5.2.1) roll to determine where it lands
5.2.2) adjust as desired +/- 1 with splash weapon mastery
5.2.3) all in/adjacent to landing square take 1+int splash damage
So yeah... what there works/doesn't work? Thanks!
Zwordsman |
Sting chucks are a bit weird due to the wording itself. Several damage types. So you must look at the damage type listed per damage.
Due to the wording on the item itself. Should target touch ac *FOR* the 1d4+str then 1d6 and Nauseated damage.. The 1d6 isn’t specified as splash damage technically. It’s just listed extra damage.
It is reasonable however to throw it as normal AC due to the extra non splash damage portion of damage. Ask your gm. By raw it targets touch though. Orone could even have it also target Touch AC( But this would apply ONLY to the 1pt of damage listed as splash. )
If you miss I believe you do roll for splash. And it’s reasonable and not a terribly big jump to test your attack roll vs anyone in the new area’s place to see if it hits them. Though it’s fuzzy rule area.
The reason being, these weapons have two separate effects unlike normal splash weapons. A specific target effect (damage and DC roll) and the splash effect (1pt of damage no special effect).
So by rules… it should actually require a look at both.
The str is added to the damage BUT not the splash damage.. As per normal throwing item rules. Does not add to splash damage as splash damage does not normally add str.
So vs the target your damage would be
1d4+str +1d6+1+int +nauseated dc roll. Vs the main target
then 1+int for splash damage. Vs the splash people (which includes the target. ButI listed that damage already)
Do note. That it’s pretty hard to walk around with humanoid heads I nbags that smell bad. Most town guards or good people are not going to enjoy that
Sure it’s in a bag.. but those bags smell bad, and depending on the vermin they might make noise… so user beware.
That and you might wanna pick up the book as there isn't a listed cost on the websites.. .so no clue what it costs.
Now on to your sequence.
1,2 are fine.
3: Yes. “stingchucks acts as a splash weapon”
4: see 3.
5) Ask your gm. It depends if they view the whole thing as a splash weapon (due to 3) or not. Personally I say touch AC only
5.1,2,3, see my damage mention above. The 1d6 shouldn’t get int techicnally. But the splash does
5.1.4 Nope only 1 damage, no extra. This is no longer splash damage
5.2 onwards. Yes treat as a missed splash weapon.
Depending on your GM they may or may not have someone in the new square test vs their ac to see if they are hit. Techicnally they should as there are extra “on hit only” effects vs normal splash weapons
Thats how it reads to me anyway. For what its worth
Zwordsman |
EDIT!!!!!!!!
quick draw specifies no alchemical items
Talk to your gm.
When quick draw came out. alchemical items were all those things. but. in ultimate eqiupement they sepereated various stuff. and now they have new categories. see this site. They don't really use the broad category anymore
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateEquipment/gear/index.html
So ask your gm which definition of items they want to use.
Items can mean anything you hold. in which case yeah you can not quick draw.
but they might count it as "items that are not weapons" since pathfinder sometimes makes distinctions between items and weapons (but not with a lot of consistancy)
If they count alcheimcal weapons as not falling under that category of alchemical items. tTHen you can qiuck draw.
So yeah
DrakeRoberts |
EDIT!!!!!!!!
quick draw specifies no alchemical items
Talk to your gm.When quick draw came out. alchemical items were all those things. but. in ultimate eqiupement they sepereated various stuff. and now they have new categories. see this site. They don't really use the broad category anymore
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateEquipment/gear/index.html
So ask your gm which definition of items they want to use.
Items can mean anything you hold. in which case yeah you can not quick draw.
but they might count it as "items that are not weapons" since pathfinder sometimes makes distinctions between items and weapons (but not with a lot of consistancy)
If they count alcheimcal weapons as not falling under that category of alchemical items. tTHen you can qiuck draw.So yeah
The stingchuck is a "splash weapon" but it's not alchemical. It's listed as a "ranged weapon".
Joesi |
The issue with stingchucks aside from their massive weight is that they are not purchasable and have no value, meaning it is entirely the DM's call of how many can be made in a given period of time —if any at all (one can say it's an enemy-only weapon, like some poisons).
In addition, one would need to have a source of human skulls
Zwordsman |
I do believe a general crafting rule is. Unless you up the DC to speed it up, the min time period is like a day's work.
then as it has no cost, you still do the crafting formula.. just so little time.
So in theory 1day is the starting point.. then you could add 10 to the dc.. or osmething
Thats what my gm friend mentioned before.
Also.. Good point.. it's a splash weapon but not alchemical. I think it might be the only splash that isn't alchemical or class weapon