Spoilers in APs Descriptions


Pathfinder Adventure Path General Discussion


I recently read the description for each of the chapters of the upcoming Giantslayer AP, and I was quite surprised by the amount of detail provided. It felt to me as though someone had just forgotten to use spoiler tags in a thread, but it's not a thread. It's the main description that anyone could read. I didn't find it was the case for previous APs (I haven'T read them all though).

Anyhow, I was let down enough that I felt I should speak up. Is this a new thing? Are others also feeling the same? Am I making a fuss bout not much? Could this be avoided for future APs?

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Adventure Path descriptions are spoilery. This keeps the description for every issue of the AP from being something so generic that it's the same for every issue.

Also, you might want to avoid reading any of the Module descriptions.

-Skeld

Scarab Sages

Think of it like this: The AP volumes are targeted toward folks who want to run a game. The details in the spoilery descriptions are sufficient for a GM to make his decision to run it or not. If it were more generic descriptions, it wouldn't probably sell as well.


Dreaming Warforged wrote:

I recently read the description for each of the chapters of the upcoming Giantslayer AP, and I was quite surprised by the amount of detail provided. It felt to me as though someone had just forgotten to use spoiler tags in a thread, but it's not a thread. It's the main description that anyone could read. I didn't find it was the case for previous APs (I haven'T read them all though).

Anyhow, I was let down enough that I felt I should speak up. Is this a new thing? Are others also feeling the same? Am I making a fuss bout not much? Could this be avoided for future APs?

I don't think its a new thing (I'm pretty sure I remember threads like this as far back as second darkness).

It's essentially an inevitable conflict between giving potential customers enough information to make their purchasing decision and not spoiling the surprise for those who end up playing. In my mind, it's defensible since those who really hate spoilers can avoid reading the blurbs of those campaigns they're likely to play in. (It's still an issue, but at least that's something).

Fwiw, I'd encourage any of my players in an AP to read the blurbs, any associated source material from the back sections, handouts from the inside covers and any thematically linked other paizo products. An AP is different, in my mind, to a more "usual" sandboxxy situation and I'm willing to accept some spoilers to keep everyone on the same page. If the players know (broadly) where things are heading in an AP, it can only help them develop appropriate, harmonious characters. Sure some of the "broad brush" stuff might lose its impact, but in my experience those aren't the moments you remember anyhow - to me it's kind of like showing players a map of your road trip, they still get to enjoy the scenery and the experiences along the way, even if they know (roughly) where they're going.


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If you want to read something about the AP, you should wait until they release the Player's Guide. This will give you the information about the AP that should not spoil it.


I actually agree with most of what you all said. But I'm talking about the level of spoilers in the description in Giantslayer as being a little over the top, in my opinion.

I should have provided an example of what I find too much.

Giantslayer Chapter 4/6 Description from the website:

Following the trail of the Storm Tyrant’s armies, the heroes come to a frost giant village that serves as a training camp, led by a frost giant graveknight who issues orders from within an icy crypt. As the heroes engage in guerrilla tactics to weaken the army of giants and disband the training camp, they can ally with a red dragon who is attempting to infiltrate the giant camp for her own purposes. Once they’ve broken the ranks of the giants in the camp outside, the heroes venture into an icy crypt to defeat their undead leader, learning that the best graduates of the training camp are sent on to an elite military academy run by fire giants.

I think it was possible to have a great description that avoided mentioning what I bolded, or at least be a little more cryptic about it.

Scarab Sages

Take that stuff out and you have a generic description that tells me nothing about the adventure. Make it cryptic and either I won't understand it, or you'll understand it anyway. That is exactly the level of detail I want in those descriptions so that I get a feel for the adventure. If you are that picky about spoilers, don't read the descriptions of adventures you plan to play in.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

It's always a difficult line to walk when writing text for marketing purposes. You want that text to be exciting and compelling... you want not only to entice potential customers into wanting to play the adventure, but ALSO to entice buyers, distributors, retailers, and the like to actually pick UP the product to put on shelves so potential customers will even have the CHANCE to buy it.

Furthermore... it's possible to keep too many secrets from players. If instead we said something like "Led by a mysterious leader from within an icy crypt" or "can ally with unusual companions" or "sent to an elite academy run by mysterious trainers" or the like... they'd cut back on the spoilers a bit... but at what cost? It's more exciting to know some teasers in lots of cases. That's why they call some movie trailers "teasers"—they're meant to tease people and get them excited about seeing a movie.

And just like movie trailers... it's absolutely possible to reveal too much in the marketing text. But weighed against the risk that what you talk about ends up being so boring that people lose interest... I'm afraid I'd have to side on the spoiler-heavy option purely on the business side of things.

Of course... there's other things that we haven't mentioned that ARE still secret—never fear!

But in the end... if you're a player who wants to play in an adventure path and you're worried about spoilers... you might want to practice not reading the back covers or advertising blurbs and all that for those adventures anyway. I've done that with movies before—when I know I want to see a movie I'll deliberately NOT check out the trailer for it.

And in any event... sorry for the spoilers in this one's description. As I said above, it's a constant give and take in creating these blurbs. We'll try to avoid doing too much more "give" in the future... but I can't PROMISE a spoiler-free future. (Especially since I'm not personally writing any of the Giantslayer blurbs!)


Dreaming Warforged is correct. That blurb is far too specific.

Spoiler:

I fail to see why the specific creature including template needs to be called out.

...led by a profane frost giant champion who issues orders from within an icy lair.

...they must deal with a dragon who is attempting to infiltrate the giant camp for her own purposes.

...sent to an elite military academy run by the raging giants of <such and such> Mountains.


Hi James,

Thanks for taking the time to explain. It's quite enlightening.

I know you guys appreciate feedback, and I wrote this thread with that in mind. I agree with all you've said, except that thing about not reading certain parts; I'm both DM and player.

So for me, that particular AP's descriptions went a little too far, and Latrecis clarified well why I felt that way.

As for keeping it exciting, you got me thinking. What makes it exciting for me is not so much the object of the threat, but more the type. To try to convey what I mean by that, I'll take a shot at writing a version of the description. Not to say it should be that way, but to use an example in explaining what creates excitement.

Alternate Description as Example:

Following the trail of the Storm Tyrant’s armies, the heroes come to a frost giant training camp led by a secretive leader who remains hidden within an icy crypt. The army is formidable and a frontal attack would be suicidal. The heroes have to show resourcefulness, resorting to guerrilla tactics and making unlikely alliances, in order to weaken the army of giants and disband the training camp. Only once they’ve broken the ranks of the giants outside can the heroes venture into the icy crypt and deal with the giants' leader. But this giant has made alliances of his own, and defeating him will prove more challenging than expected. Once the leader is dealt with, the heroes will uncover a new threat: the training camp's best graduates have been sent on to join an elite military academy for giants!

Again, this is just some feedback that might be useful for Paizo. It's not 'what I think you guys should do.' I don'T have the full picture and don't have to deal with multiple sources of demands and constraints.

All the best!

The Exchange

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Latrecis wrote:

Dreaming Warforged is correct. That blurb is far too specific.

** spoiler omitted **

That might very well be because the outline of the adventure is so generic that the specific details of it must be shared in order to make it sound unique.

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