Spiritual Attunement: A Pathfinder Shaman Guide


Advice

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Anzyr wrote:
JBurz wrote:
Ellioti wrote:
JBurz wrote:


To-do list:
  • Waves/Wind Spirits
  • Spells
  • Spirit Animal suggestions
  • Feats
  • Magic Items / Equipment
  • Sample Builds
  • Add "Why Play A Shaman" section
  • Archetypes
  • I like the Speaker for the Past archetype especially
    Agreed - there are some great options among the initial batch of archetypes!

    Ok. No. Just no. Default Shaman is best Shaman. The other archetypes trade off way to much for way to little. Possessed Shaman is the only archetype I'd give a "maybe" and even then I'd only recommend it if you don't have a skill monkey. Especially the incredibly awful Unsworn Shaman. Losing Hex is the most tragic thing that can happen to the Shaman.

    Remember, the greatest strength of the Shaman is it's incredibly flexible Wandering Spirit and Wandering Hex. Particularly it's ability to hijack the entire Sorcerer/Wizard list with Wandering Hex + Arcane Enlightenment.

    I'll also back Heaven being blue, a lot of the other spirit abilities of the others spirits are pretty useless. Turning into an elemental... yawn.

    Definitely agreed about wandering hex, I'll however give Witch Doctor the nod for never having to worry about preparing cure spells, it does lose several hex slots, but at least it keeps the lvl 2, meaning it still allows extra hex feat, from early on.

    You can have a "God wizard" shaman with an absurd amount of non-spellslot healing(especially with Life spirit), and just fill up with control/buff/debuff spells(including poaching what you want each day from wizard/sorceror list with wandering hex or spirit talker, as well as poaching a few key cleric spells with favored class bonus). A fair trade I think.

    It does however get very MAD, so depends what kind of point buy you've got to work with.

    Grand Lodge

    I'll add Freedom of Movement to the spell poaching list.

    You need an archetype section, mainly because Speaker for the Past is one of the best archetypes in the game for any class.

    I never thought to make a shaman blaster, but I guess it would work sort of if you were lore wandering and could get spells from the cleric list too via FCB. I'm going to try this out later.


    IMO possibly one of the worst designed classes in a long time... ridiculously OP. The class has very few if any drawbacks.


    Silver Surfer wrote:
    IMO possibly one of the worst designed classes in a long time... ridiculously OP. The class has very few if any drawbacks.

    It's seriously a contender for strongest class in the game. Still not as broken as outright broken as a synthesist summoner though.


    Not sure if trolling.


    Nyaa wrote:
    Not sure if trolling.

    Well, you can basically have a 3/4 bab, d8 hp, full caster progression witchclericwizard, so I do see the point.

    The closest you can get to being as versatile otherwise, while keeping full caster progression requires being Samsaran.


    Cerebrawl wrote:
    Nyaa wrote:
    Not sure if trolling.

    Well, you can basically have a 3/4 bab, d8 hp, full caster progression witchclericwizard, so I do see the point.

    The closest you can get to being as versatile otherwise, while keeping full caster progression requires being Samsaran.

    The real strength of a shaman is that they have so many sources of spells that you can start making more up and the GM will just believe you to save time.

    Grand Lodge

    Blueskier wrote:
    Hey, I need some advice. I'm currently playing a lvl 2 human speaker for the past and I have no idea what to do with my feats. I've already grabbed spell focus and greater spell focus conj, but I have no idea what to do from lvl 3 onwards, other than divine interference at 11 and spirit talker at 7. I don't want to fight melee or ranged, and I don't have the CHA for divine protection. So, what would you recommend?

    Agreed. I'd love to see way more discussion on feats, especially feats for a 1st level Shaman.

    Shamans are definitely gimped when compared to other divine casters at 1st level (Cleric, Druid, etc.). The problem is we don't start getting any of our juicy stuff (that is, the Hexes) until 2nd, so the Extra Hex feat is off the table at 1st. Choosing feats for a 1st level Shaman is tough. You're basically looking at:

    a) Basic buff feats (i.e. Toughness, Dodge, Improved Initiative, etc.)
    b) Spell Focus or Scribe Scroll

    Toughness isn't a bad idea, especially if you're going to be using your FCB to poach spells off the cleric spell list.

    Spell Focus doesn't hurt either, especially Spell Focus: Enchantment if you're going to be spamming Sleep and Daze spells at low levels.

    The best thing I've come up with is retraining. If your GM allows it, retraining is fairly cheap at low levels. At 3rd level, for example, it only costs 150gp and 5 days downtime to retrain a feat (increased to 10 days if no trainer is available). That's not hard to do. I decided to go with Spell Focus: Enchantment at 1st level, to be retrained into an Extra Hex or Spiritual Guardian (really cool feat/ability and unique to the Shaman) down the road.

    P.S. I'll add: Speaker for the Past Shamans will get more use out of Spiritual Guardian, as unlike the other Shamans, they actually have Spiritual Ally on their spell list.


    Cerebrawl wrote:

    The guide could use a spell poaching section, pointing out especially good cleric and wizard/sorceror spells to grab with favored class bonus and Arcane Enlightenment. You know, things like Haste, Blessing of Fervor, Black Tentacles, Planeshift, Righteous Might and Magic Jar.

    Mainly because it's quite time consuming digging through several spell lists for the creme de la creme, and double-checking so you don't already have them on your list.

    As mentioned in the To-Do list, I will have sections for both the Cleric spell list FCB and Arcane Enlightenment.


    EvilTwinSkippy wrote:
    Blueskier wrote:
    Hey, I need some advice. I'm currently playing a lvl 2 human speaker for the past and I have no idea what to do with my feats. I've already grabbed spell focus and greater spell focus conj, but I have no idea what to do from lvl 3 onwards, other than divine interference at 11 and spirit talker at 7. I don't want to fight melee or ranged, and I don't have the CHA for divine protection. So, what would you recommend?

    Agreed. I'd love to see way more discussion on feats, especially feats for a 1st level Shaman.

    Shamans are definitely gimped when compared to other divine casters at 1st level (Cleric, Druid, etc.). The problem is we don't start getting any of our juicy stuff (that is, the Hexes) until 2nd, so the Extra Hex feat is off the table at 1st. Choosing feats for a 1st level Shaman is tough. You're basically looking at:

    a) Basic buff feats (i.e. Toughness, Dodge, Improved Initiative, etc.)
    b) Spell Focus or Scribe Scroll

    Toughness isn't a bad idea, especially if you're going to be using your FCB to poach spells off the cleric spell list.

    Spell Focus doesn't hurt either, especially Spell Focus: Enchantment if you're going to be spamming Sleep and Daze spells at low levels.

    The best thing I've come up with is retraining. If your GM allows it, retraining is fairly cheap at low levels. At 3rd level, for example, it only costs 150gp and 5 days downtime to retrain a feat (increased to 10 days if no trainer is available). That's not hard to do. I decided to go with Spell Focus: Enchantment at 1st level, to be retrained into an Extra Hex or Spiritual Guardian (really cool feat/ability and unique to the Shaman) down the road.

    P.S. I'll add: Speaker for the Past Shamans will get more use out of Spiritual Guardian, as unlike the other Shamans, they actually have Spiritual Ally on their spell list.

    I also noticed this issue, and will be part of the feats section when it is added.


    Keep in mind that RAW, extra hex isn't really that good for a Shaman, since you can only select hexes that your chosen spirit offers and there are a limited number of those that you will want. Also keep in mind that you can select one Witch Hex, which should probably be Slumber.


    As far as feats go, Hex Strike: Evil Eye could be very powerful in the hands of a strength-focused Battle Shaman. A potent no-save debuff seems very worth giving up one weapon strike per round, and it's wonderfully versatile - drop their AB when charging, then drop their AC when starting a full-attack, for example. Frostbite potentially makes it even worse.


    Anzyr wrote:
    Keep in mind that RAW, extra hex isn't really that good for a Shaman, since you can only select hexes that your chosen spirit offers and there are a limited number of those that you will want. Also keep in mind that you can select one Witch Hex, which should probably be Slumber.

    What stops you from going for the generic hexes outside of the spirit lists or am I misunderstanding?

    And you know as far as Slumber goes I get why its considered so good and I don't deny that at all.

    But I believe there are better debuff hexes to go for. I'm kind of a fan of Bone Lock and Confusion curse. One because it murders action economy for potentially longer than slumber (post 8th) without the trouble of someone ending it prematurely, and the other because it has a lot better utility against a crowd.

    Slumber is great if your GM doesn't think before pitting you against the non-immune solo boss encounter.

    That's just silly on their part.


    TarkXT wrote:
    Anzyr wrote:
    Keep in mind that RAW, extra hex isn't really that good for a Shaman, since you can only select hexes that your chosen spirit offers and there are a limited number of those that you will want. Also keep in mind that you can select one Witch Hex, which should probably be Slumber.

    What stops you from going for the generic hexes outside of the spirit lists or am I misunderstanding?

    And you know as far as Slumber goes I get why its considered so good and I don't deny that at all.

    But I believe there are better debuff hexes to go for. I'm kind of a fan of Bone Lock and Confusion curse. One because it murders action economy for potentially longer than slumber (post 8th) without the trouble of someone ending it prematurely, and the other because it has a lot better utility against a crowd.

    Slumber is great if your GM doesn't think before pitting you against the non-immune solo boss encounter.

    That's just silly on their part.

    Extra Hex wrote:
    You gain one additional hex. You must meet the prerequisites for this hex. If you are a shaman, it must be a hex granted by your spirit rather than one from a wandering spirit.

    RAW you must select a Hex granted by your spirit. RAI was probably to merely restrict you from selecting Hexes off your Wandering Spirit, but unfortunately that is not what it says.

    Shaman has a lot of issues like this, like not actually being able to use the Nature Spirit Hex Friend to Animals, since being able to spontaneously cast a spell that isn't your list doesn't help much. Or the fact that the FCB of Human/Half-Elf/Half-orc's runs up against the Spells Known FAQ. As far as I know none of these have been addressed yet.

    I'll actually agree with you on Bone Lock being better then Slumber, but only at level 16+. Prior to that, not so much. Obviously, Shaman's non-mind-affecting Misfortune is also a very very good debuff. But since you can only get one Witch's hex, there's really no competition in my mind. Especially since with Bone Lock it gives you two different saves to target.


    Anzyr wrote:
    TarkXT wrote:
    Anzyr wrote:
    Keep in mind that RAW, extra hex isn't really that good for a Shaman, since you can only select hexes that your chosen spirit offers and there are a limited number of those that you will want. Also keep in mind that you can select one Witch Hex, which should probably be Slumber.

    What stops you from going for the generic hexes outside of the spirit lists or am I misunderstanding?

    And you know as far as Slumber goes I get why its considered so good and I don't deny that at all.

    But I believe there are better debuff hexes to go for. I'm kind of a fan of Bone Lock and Confusion curse. One because it murders action economy for potentially longer than slumber (post 8th) without the trouble of someone ending it prematurely, and the other because it has a lot better utility against a crowd.

    Slumber is great if your GM doesn't think before pitting you against the non-immune solo boss encounter.

    That's just silly on their part.

    Extra Hex wrote:
    You gain one additional hex. You must meet the prerequisites for this hex. If you are a shaman, it must be a hex granted by your spirit rather than one from a wandering spirit.

    RAW you must select a Hex granted by your spirit. RAI was probably to merely restrict you from selecting Hexes off your Wandering Spirit, but unfortunately that is not what it says.

    Shaman has a lot of issues like this, like not actually being able to use the Nature Spirit Hex Friend to Animals, since being able to spontaneously cast a spell that isn't your list doesn't help much. Or the fact that the FCB of Human/Half-Elf/Half-orc's runs up against the Spells Known FAQ. As far as I know none of these have been addressed yet.

    I'll actually agree with you on Bone Lock being better then Slumber, but only at level 16+. Prior to that, not so much. Obviously, Shaman's non-mind-affecting Misfortune is also a very very good debuff. But since you can only get one Witch's hex, there's really no competition in my mind....

    Ah they don't have that updated one the d20pfsrd site yet. Thanks for that.

    I do agree if you want that witches hex it may as well be that one. Though I have a soft spot for prehensile hair.

    I'm sure the shaman's going to see plenty of Erratta from Arcane Enlightenment cheese cutting, to extra hex clarification, and so on.


    TarkXT wrote:

    Ah they don't have that updated one the d20pfsrd site yet. Thanks for that.

    I do agree if you want that witches hex it may as well be that one. Though I have a soft spot for prehensile hair.

    I'm sure the shaman's going to see plenty of Erratta from Arcane Enlightenment cheese cutting, to extra hex clarification, and so on.

    I don't know. IT did survive the playtest, even if the Wis to AC ability did not.

    Grand Lodge

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    Anzyr wrote:
    Extra Hex wrote:
    You gain one additional hex. You must meet the prerequisites for this hex. If you are a shaman, it must be a hex granted by your spirit rather than one from a wandering spirit.

    RAW you must select a Hex granted by your spirit. RAI was probably to merely restrict you from selecting Hexes off your Wandering Spirit, but unfortunately that is not what it says.

    I'm going to disagree with your interpretation on that. If it just said, "it must be a hex granted by your spirit.", then yes you'd be correct. But it doesn't say that.

    Rather, it says "it must be a hex granted by your spirit rather than one from a wandering spirit"(Emphasis mine). The second part changes the sentence, showing that it was never intended to be a global statement. The 3rd sentence simply modifies the 2nd sentence about prerequisites. If you're a Shaman, you don't meet the prerequisite for Hexes from your wandering spirits.

    It's worded poorly, and hopefully we'll get some clarification when the long-awaited ACG errata/FAQ finally comes out. But I don't think RAW requires that a sentence fragment taken out of context need trump reading out the entire sentence or its meaning within the passage.


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    EvilTwinSkippy wrote:
    Blueskier wrote:
    Hey, I need some advice. I'm currently playing a lvl 2 human speaker for the past and I have no idea what to do with my feats. I've already grabbed spell focus and greater spell focus conj, but I have no idea what to do from lvl 3 onwards, other than divine interference at 11 and spirit talker at 7. I don't want to fight melee or ranged, and I don't have the CHA for divine protection. So, what would you recommend?

    Agreed. I'd love to see way more discussion on feats, especially feats for a 1st level Shaman.

    Shamans are definitely gimped when compared to other divine casters at 1st level (Cleric, Druid, etc.). The problem is we don't start getting any of our juicy stuff (that is, the Hexes) until 2nd, so the Extra Hex feat is off the table at 1st. Choosing feats for a 1st level Shaman is tough. You're basically looking at:

    a) Basic buff feats (i.e. Toughness, Dodge, Improved Initiative, etc.)
    b) Spell Focus or Scribe Scroll

    Toughness isn't a bad idea, especially if you're going to be using your FCB to poach spells off the cleric spell list.

    Spell Focus doesn't hurt either, especially Spell Focus: Enchantment if you're going to be spamming Sleep and Daze spells at low levels.

    The best thing I've come up with is retraining. If your GM allows it, retraining is fairly cheap at low levels. At 3rd level, for example, it only costs 150gp and 5 days downtime to retrain a feat (increased to 10 days if no trainer is available). That's not hard to do. I decided to go with Spell Focus: Enchantment at 1st level, to be retrained into an Extra Hex or Spiritual Guardian (really cool feat/ability and unique to the Shaman) down the road.

    P.S. I'll add: Speaker for the Past Shamans will get more use out of Spiritual Guardian, as unlike the other Shamans, they actually have Spiritual Ally on their spell list.

    For a healer shaman with the life spirit, there's always selective channeling, for in-combat channeling, available at 1st level... some of the metamagic feats make for a decent pick too(extend spell anyone?), but mainly because you want to use your 3rd lvl feat for something else.

    Oh and any human/half-elf/half-orc shaman can grab spiritual ally from the cleric list with favored class bonus, albeit a spell level later(1 spell level below the highest you can cast restriction).

    Oh and sidenote: heavy armor proficiency isn't a horrible 1st level pick, especially for a dwarf shaman.


    Your guide lists Hex Vulnerability as one round plus one per level. It is actually one per level. For a discussion on using it with the Healing Hex, see my thread:
    Hex Vulnerability Healing Hex OP or not OP

    For the Spirits section, I have an observation to make about Battle Spirit: Battle Ward. While not a great defense, it lasts until used or 24 hours, allowing a long lasting effect. If your party has a lot of people/creatures/whatever, it can be really nice. I am in Skull's & Shackles, and we have a ship crew. A temporary deflection bonus to the entire crew each day is a great buff, especially if there is ship to ship combat. My party is also unusually large. Seven primary characters, three cohorts, two familiars, and a ship crew is a lot of people. My Cohort gets a lot of use on his Healing Hex, and I can see a lot of use for Battle Ward also. Sure, PCs can afford better deflection, but NPCs cannot. Would a wand of Hex Vulnerability help? Probably not, but it would be in line with miscellaneous equipment to aid the entire party. I would rate it much better if you have a lot of targets to use it on.

    /cevah


    Cevah wrote:

    Your guide lists Hex Vulnerability as one round plus one per level. It is actually one per level. For a discussion on using it with the Healing Hex, see my thread:

    Hex Vulnerability Healing Hex OP or not OP

    For the Spirits section, I have an observation to make about Battle Spirit: Battle Ward. While not a great defense, it lasts until used or 24 hours, allowing a long lasting effect. If your party has a lot of people/creatures/whatever, it can be really nice. I am in Skull's & Shackles, and we have a ship crew. A temporary deflection bonus to the entire crew each day is a great buff, especially if there is ship to ship combat. My party is also unusually large. Seven primary characters, three cohorts, two familiars, and a ship crew is a lot of people. My Cohort gets a lot of use on his Healing Hex, and I can see a lot of use for Battle Ward also. Sure, PCs can afford better deflection, but NPCs cannot. Would a wand of Hex Vulnerability help? Probably not, but it would be in line with miscellaneous equipment to aid the entire party. I would rate it much better if you have a lot of targets to use it on.

    /cevah

    I was actually in the unenviable position of having to choose a Hex from that spirit the other day and decided to give Battle Ward another shot. It's weird because the benefits are quickly gone on the frontliners whereas I'm still sporting the full value one.

    As you said, it is better in larger parties with animal companions, familiars, etc. I had already resolved to bump it to orange and I'm glad you reminded me. The bonus type is still the one that most people, given the choice, acquire first, so It just doesn't scale enough long-term for me to justify much more.

    Also, fixed the Hex Vulnerability - not sure how I goofed on that. Thanks for the heads up.


    JBurz wrote:
    Cevah wrote:

    For the Spirits section, I have an observation to make about Battle Spirit: Battle Ward. While not a great defense, it lasts until used or 24 hours, allowing a long lasting effect. If your party has a lot of people/creatures/whatever, it can be really nice. I am in Skull's & Shackles, and we have a ship crew. A temporary deflection bonus to the entire crew each day is a great buff, especially if there is ship to ship combat. My party is also unusually large. Seven primary characters, three cohorts, two familiars, and a ship crew is a lot of people. My Cohort gets a lot of use on his Healing Hex, and I can see a lot of use for Battle Ward also. Sure, PCs can afford better deflection, but NPCs cannot. Would a wand of Hex Vulnerability help? Probably not, but it would be in line with miscellaneous equipment to aid the entire party. I would rate it much better if you have a lot of targets to use it on.

    /cevah

    I was actually in the unenviable position of having to choose a Hex from that spirit the other day and decided to give Battle Ward another shot. It's weird because the benefits are quickly gone on the frontliners whereas I'm still sporting the full value one.

    As you said, it is better in larger parties with animal companions, familiars, etc. I had already resolved to bump it to orange and I'm glad you reminded me. The bonus type is still the one that most people, given the choice, acquire first, so It just doesn't scale enough long-term for me to justify much more.

    Why not make it mixed color. Orange for general, green for parties with lots of creatures. Again, PCs may have deflection bonuses, but with lots of extras, they won't have enough to go around. That is why it is good for large parties.

    /cevah


    Thanks for making a shaman guide! I've been (rather impatiently) waiting for one ever since the ACG came out.

    Speaking of which, do we know anything about when the ACG second printing - hopefully including a veritable deluge of errata due to the original printing's overall poor editing - will be released? Last I saw was Eric Mona saying in November that it shouldn't be long but I may well have missed any updates in the meantime.


    Just reading through the full Shaman spell list (because what's a prepared caster if not prepared?) and it seems like you're missing Spiked Armor and Twisted Futures from your spell list. Blame my anal-retentive nature for feeling the need to mention it. >.>


    Why dwarf orange. Not all shamans need cha, and the saves and the combination of wis and con makes for one tough Character.


    I have a question regarding Arcane Enlightenment. When you grab the spells from the Wizard/Sorcerer list they become Divine, so that means that if you took Scribe Scroll and made scrolls, only another Divine caster would be able to use them. Or someone with Use Magical Device?


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    I enjoyed your guide but there is one thing you need to reconsider.
    You mark erosion curse as red:

    guide wrote:
    Erosion Curse: Really situational. I would recommend you pick it up with Wandering Hex / Spirit Talker for use versus constructs, except that they get a save, and you could only use it on them once anyways.

    But that over looks the beauty of the hex. I would (almost) never use it to directly harm an enemy, you are right it is too situational. His gear however is very susceptible to the hex. I have found this hex quite useful in ridding an enemy of their weapons, holy symbols or spell component pouches. Weapons can be a little difficult to destroy outright depending on the type of weapon and/or its enchancent bonus. I have been successful against weapons about half the time. Holy symbols and spell component pouches are almost sure things even if the enemy makes the save for half damage. Most enemies to not carry spares, leaving them with few options.

    The hex has out of combat uses as well. The politition who is berating your friends in front of the city council - suddenly his belt buckle is no longer there. The lock on the chest, gone. The tripwire, eroded.

    To me this hex is at least a strong green, but probably a weak blue. It ruins clerics even when they save, shuts down wizards who are left picking up their components which fall loose in the wind, ruins archer's days and has a decent success rate against characters with light melee weapons. If you can not find a use for it out of combat at least once per scenario, you are just not being creative.

    Just make sure you bring the damaging objects table to the game table so your DM does not throw a book at you. Not many people have the table memorized and you will use it a lot.


    Just a quick note that I will finally have time to work on the guide again, and will review your comments shortly!


    I think wood shape and warp wood should be a bit better than listed. Out of combat I have gotten more use out of those spells than I probably should.

    I also don't get the hate for the curse spells.

    Also you are missing three archetypes for familiars. Valet particularly is probably green. It's not as awesome as mauler but it is definitely still a very nice one to have.


    tips for high levels needed as well.
    as the class is "all over the place" - i think it can easy be all and nothing.
    can any here post sample build, level 12 :
    1) melee > caster
    2) caster > melee (but still SOME melee if needed)
    3) all out caster, no melee

    it's tricky

    Shadow Lodge

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    The reasoning for making the spell Focused Scrutiny red isn't sound.

    It's a 10 min/level duration and the target of the spell is you, not the target. You don't have to designate the target when you cast the spell, you just have to pick one target at some point during its duration. And it's +10/+5 to lots of useful social skills against it, that's huge.

    Grand Lodge

    New Spell: Vine Strike (from the Melee Tactics Toolbox).

    This is pretty cool for a melee focused Shaman. Now when you transform into a Troglodyte or Sewer Troll, your natural attacks can do an extra d6 damage, and every hit forces a save vs. entangle.


    Helikon wrote:
    Why dwarf orange. Not all shamans need cha, and the saves and the combination of wis and con makes for one tough Character.

    I agree that dwarf are potentially green for melee shaman and have indicated that accordingly. Thanks for your feedback.


    Kiqjaq wrote:
    Just reading through the full Shaman spell list (because what's a prepared caster if not prepared?) and it seems like you're missing Spiked Armor and Twisted Futures from your spell list. Blame my anal-retentive nature for feeling the need to mention it. >.>

    I will review these and add them accordingly. Cheers!


    MichaelCullen wrote:
    I enjoyed your guide but there is one thing you need to reconsider... <snip>

    After seeing your argument, I agreed in principle. I sported it on my shaman for a day and I agree it is a solid choice.

    I can't agree with it being blue for a couple of reasons:

    1. Plenty of creatures don't rely on equipment to be dangerous. There are plenty of hexes that don't have this limitation (Evil Eye, for one).

    2. It has been my experience that most GMs don't mess around with trying to sunder and destroy party equipment in order to respect WBL... but that tends to go out the window when you walk around destroying items in every combat. This is a "meta-game" thing that needs to be worked out with your GM, and I've noted that accordingly.

    In PFS, I've never seen an enemy designed specifically to sunder equipment, so I don't believe it to be an issue there.

    I really appreciate your feedback - it has made the guide better!


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    Avatar-1 wrote:

    The reasoning for making the spell Focused Scrutiny red isn't sound.

    It's a 10 min/level duration and the target of the spell is you, not the target. You don't have to designate the target when you cast the spell, you just have to pick one target at some point during its duration. And it's +10/+5 to lots of useful social skills against it, that's huge.

    I agree with your reasoning and I appreciate you bringing it to my attention. The duration is good enough that you could just cast it before the social function (or whatever) begins.

    Cheers, and thanks for the feedback.


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    Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

    I've been playing a Heavens shaman in Carrion Crown for the last few months. Just hit 9th level last night. Wanted to throw out some thoughts around Feats while you're still working out that section.

    Extra Hex: is a solid fallback if you can't think of anything at a particular level. It's importance can vary wildly depending on your build of course. Based on the new shaman clause on this feat, i was taking it to pick up my spirit hexes while picking up my base hexes on the normal progression levels. Based on EvilTwinSkippy's post though, this application may not be necessary.

    Flexible Hex: Hey we heard you like flexibility. Let's give you some more.

    Accursed Hex: It sucks if the big bad guy saves against your Misfortune. This let's your try again next round. Pretty solid in my mind.

    Amplified Hex: This helps out a bit with landing that Misfortune. Slightly more attractive if your spirit spells aren't so hot for a given day. You can always burn those slots to amplify your hexes!

    Spirit Talker: Ya. We all know this one. You're taking it at 7 right?

    Being a human i had the same level 1 problems that folks discussed. Thankfully i was able to re-train out one of my feats for Amplified Hex. Debating re-training the other at some point as well. Spell Focus was an early option i completely forgot about for some reason. I'd really like some more discussion around this area.

    Sounds like most folks are running some sort of debuffer/buffer caster at the moment. Would really like to hear if any melee shamans have been effective out in the wild or not.


    One thing I'm still not decided on is whether to bother with the whole Chant/Evil Eye/Misfortune thing. That's a price of 3 hexes, and in my mind they come as somewhat of a package. Obviously they're great, but in lieu of that you could just pick up 3 utility hexes.

    I mean, I'm looking at Healing Hex, Slumber, Flight/Lure of the Heavens, Heaven's Leap, and Flame Curse as my 1-10 hexes. I would have to dump 3 of them to pick up the trinity, and then spend a large quantity of my turns to actually use them, while these alternatives are things I can pick up and throw around to great effect while keeping the focus on my spell list.

    The biggest thing I see that you could get from not using many spells is gratuitous use of Divine Interference, since your turns are spent not using spell slots.

    But since they get feats like Split Hex while we don't, I feel like the trinity is really meant for Witches more than Shaman.

    Decorpsed wrote:
    Being a human i had the same level 1 problems that folks discussed. Thankfully i was able to re-train out one of my feats for Amplified Hex. Debating re-training the other at some point as well. Spell Focus was an early option i completely forgot about for some reason. I'd really like some more discussion around this area.

    Mother's Gift (Changeling) naturally.

    But yeah, I'm not sure what I'd do as a human outside of retrain later.


    What is the Level 1 human problem people have?


    Rycaut wrote:
    What is the Level 1 human problem people have?

    Shaman don't get Hex as a class feature until level 2, so they can't take any hex related feats until then. What feats do you take at level 1 when you have two of them and you can't grab your favorite feats?

    Sovereign Court

    Like usual, want to add that Samsaran with mystic past life are an excellent choice for a shaman.

    Add paladin spells if you are going melee, Cleric or druid spells for caster, Hunter spells if you want to get some melee ranger spells and still benefit from some druid spells.

    But well...I guess at this point, Samsaran deserves a guide on their own, for all the ridiculousness that comes with mystic past life and increasing the options of all kind of casters.


    Samsaran is actually a trap for the most part on Shamans, since it only adds at most 6 spells (Admittedly from more lists and potentially 6 9ths), while Human/Half-Orc/Half-Elf adds 18 level 1+ spells off the Cleric list to your list. While I would love getting Miracle on my list, I'd rather have all the other spells and make due with Wish.


    Any timetable for when the next update will hit?


    for me, "Overland Flight" is super blue.
    yes, hexs can make you fly, but - they require action to start.
    with 1 spell, especially later as you can extend it, you are peter pan,


    air walk and/or communal air walk is also really good - and for many characters and builds better than asking for ongoing fly checks to hover to take full attacks - let the barbarian just charge ahead and then just stand in the air and full attack that flying creature... sure flight may be a bit more maneuverable and is faster - but for party members in full armor and/or without high dex and good fly skills air walk can be really really strong.

    [table variation in how important managing to make fly checks are]


    I'm liking the idea of using paragon surge to pickup extra hex. This can play to the highly situational nature of the nature spirit hexes.


    Interesting Guide.
    One point when you reference the stormbolts spell you indicate there is no way to exclude people from the area of effect. I believe this to be incorrect as the spell description says " The bolts do not harm natural vegetation or creatures in the area you wish to exclude from damage."


    JohnHawkins wrote:

    Interesting Guide.

    One point when you reference the stormbolts spell you indicate there is no way to exclude people from the area of effect. I believe this to be incorrect as the spell description says " The bolts do not harm natural vegetation or creatures in the area you wish to exclude from damage."

    I missed this - thanks for the tip, it has been amended.


    Decorpsed wrote:

    I've been playing a Heavens shaman in Carrion Crown for the last few months. Just hit 9th level last night. Wanted to throw out some thoughts around Feats while you're still working out that section.

    Extra Hex: is a solid fallback if you can't think of anything at a particular level. It's importance can vary wildly depending on your build of course. Based on the new shaman clause on this feat, i was taking it to pick up my spirit hexes while picking up my base hexes on the normal progression levels. Based on EvilTwinSkippy's post though, this application may not be necessary.

    Flexible Hex: Hey we heard you like flexibility. Let's give you some more.

    Accursed Hex: It sucks if the big bad guy saves against your Misfortune. This let's your try again next round. Pretty solid in my mind.

    Amplified Hex: This helps out a bit with landing that Misfortune. Slightly more attractive if your spirit spells aren't so hot for a given day. You can always burn those slots to amplify your hexes!

    Spirit Talker: Ya. We all know this one. You're taking it at 7 right?

    Being a human i had the same level 1 problems that folks discussed. Thankfully i was able to re-train out one of my feats for Amplified Hex. Debating re-training the other at some point as well. Spell Focus was an early option i completely forgot about for some reason. I'd really like some more discussion around this area.

    Sounds like most folks are running some sort of debuffer/buffer caster at the moment. Would really like to hear if any melee shamans have been effective out in the wild or not.

    I'd like to thank you for your input! I'm going to probably hit the Feat section next. Cheers!


    666bender wrote:

    for me, "Overland Flight" is super blue.

    yes, hexs can make you fly, but - they require action to start.
    with 1 spell, especially later as you can extend it, you are peter pan,

    I think the duration is argument enough for making it green, but since you can get the same effect with a lesser duration with either a hex, or a lower-level spell, I don't personally consider it blue. Add to that the fact that the hexes add the value of being able to reapply the effect in the event of Dispels...


    DarthPinkHippo wrote:
    Any timetable for when the next update will hit?

    I'm writing a one-shot for the wife's birthday, but I'm still hoping to get some work done on it in the coming weeks. I feel kinda bogged down with the familiar section, and may just move on to feats for the moment.

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