Afflictions and their effects (besides those written in it)


Rules Questions

Sczarni

Hi everyone,

I had a recent rules discussion that popped up in our last game. One of my characters got afflicted with deadly disease and our GM ruled that he is unable to do much due to this deadly disease (disease acted like normal disease; it wasn't homebrew version) and he couldn't use Craft (alchemy) in this condition. We likewise had a discussion later where he claimed that disease prevents spell preparation also (but this didn't effect my character) due to it being a "distraction". I pointed out that nothing suggests so in the RAW.

So I am double-checking if there is anything in the rules implying that diseases or afflictions in general would mechanically prevent any other activity that character does (unless it's specifically stated in the affliction text)?

Relevant texts:

Preparing Wizard Spells:
A wizard's level limits the number of spells he can prepare and cast. His high Intelligence score might allow him to prepare a few extra spells. He can prepare the same spell more than once, but each preparation counts as one spell toward his daily limit. To prepare a spell, the wizard must have an Intelligence score of at least 10 + the spell's level.

Rest

To prepare his daily spells, a wizard must first sleep for 8 hours. The wizard does not have to slumber for every minute of the time, but he must refrain from movement, combat, spellcasting, skill use, conversation, or any other fairly demanding physical or mental task during the rest period. If his rest is interrupted, each interruption adds 1 hour to the total amount of time he has to rest in order to clear his mind, and he must have at least 1 hour of uninterrupted rest immediately prior to preparing his spells. If the character does not need to sleep for some reason, he still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells.

Recent Casting Limit/Rest Interruptions

If a wizard has cast spells recently, the drain on his resources reduces his capacity to prepare new spells. When he prepares spells for the coming day, all the spells he has cast within the last 8 hours count against his daily limit.

Preparation Environment

To prepare any spell, a wizard must have enough peace, quiet, and comfort to allow for proper concentration. The wizard's surroundings need not be luxurious, but they must be free from distractions. Exposure to inclement weather prevents the necessary concentration, as does any injury or failed saving throw the character might experience while studying. Wizards also must have access to their spellbooks to study from and sufficient light to read them. There is one major exception: a wizard can prepare a read magic spell even without a spellbook.

Spell Preparation Time

After resting, a wizard must study his spellbook to prepare any spells that day. If he wants to prepare all his spells, the process takes 1 hour. Preparing some smaller portion of his daily capacity takes a proportionally smaller amount of time, but always at least 15 minutes, the minimum time required to achieve the proper mental state.

Spell Selection and Preparation

Until he prepares spells from his spellbook, the only spells a wizard has available to cast are the ones that he already had prepared from the previous day and has not yet used. During the study period, he chooses which spells to prepare. If a wizard already has spells prepared (from the previous day) that he has not cast, she can abandon some or all of them to make room for new spells.

When preparing spells for the day, a wizard can leave some of these spell slots open. Later during that day, he can repeat the preparation process as often as he likes, time and circumstances permitting. During these extra sessions of preparation, the wizard can fill these unused spell slots. He cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because he has cast a spell in the meantime. That sort of preparation requires a mind fresh from rest. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if the wizard prepares more than one-quarter of his spells.

Spell Slots

The various character class tables show how many spells of each level a character can cast per day. These openings for daily spells are called spell slots. a spellcaster always has the option to fill a higher-level spell slot with a lower-level spell. A spellcaster who lacks a high enough ability score to cast spells that would otherwise be his due still gets the slots but must fill them with spells of lower levels.

Prepared Spell Retention

Once a wizard prepares a spell, it remains in his mind as a nearly cast spell until he uses the prescribed components to complete and trigger it or until he abandons it. Certain other events, such as the effects of magic items or special attacks from monsters, can wipe a prepared spell from a character's mind.

Death and Prepared Spell Retention

If a spellcaster dies, all prepared spells stored in his mind are wiped away. Potent magic (such as raise dead, resurrection, or true resurrection) can recover the lost energy when it recovers the character.

Small Text About Diseases:
From a widespread plague to the bite of a dire rat, disease is a serious threat to common folk and adventurers alike. Diseases rarely have a limited frequency, but most have a lengthy onset time. This onset time can also be variable. Most diseases can be cured by a number of consecutive saving throws or by spells such as remove disease.

Note: Not everything listed here is a true "disease" as some of the below are more accurately described as infections, parasites, or other unfortunate maladies adventurers might occasionally have to cope with.

Thanks on responses,

Adam


I'd say it's bull, but if the DM is going out of his way to screw your wizard, he'll find something other than disease. I recommend you talk with him about why he's doing this, since a long-term solution is more effective in keeping your wizard able to prepare spells.


As far as I understand by RAW the disease does this:

Rat attack (9:00 PM on Sunday)
- Your Wizard 1 PC gets hit, fails save
- PCs slay all rats

Monday: 9:00 PM
- Wizard makes another Fort save, fails
- Wizard takes 1 Con damage from Filth Fever

Everything else is roleplay. Did the Wizard exhibit any outward signs between Sunday and Monday? Not by RAW, but the GM might suggest that the wound, even healed by clerical magic burned and ached. They may also say that, since it's called Filth Fever the PC began experiencing upset stomach and fever/chills starting the next morning.

The GM does NOT however have to apply any of these "symptoms" to the PC. In that case they don't even know they're sick until Monday 9:00 PM when they go from feeling fine to suddenly feeling weaker. Finally there is nothing RAW that says the PC cannot study spells or is otherwise distracted.


"wizard must have enough peace, quiet, and comfort to allow for proper concentration."

Interestingly I never really paid attention to that before. Diseases don't say anything specific about spell preparation, but I think it is certainly within the realm of a GM call whether a disease is severe enough to prevent that concentration from happening. Certainly it is a reasonable supposition that any disease serious enough to cause daily CON loss would be fairly uncomfortable to experience.

Any GM should be aware however that while increasing the penalties for disease in such a manner may have the virtue of verisimilitude, it increase the danger of diseases as well as reduce the fun of the player, even if the disease is ultimately cured.

Sczarni

@Ipslore the Red
Regarding spell preparation, it was merely a discussion and had no effect on any of our characters.

@Mark Hoover
That's my current understanding also. Afflictions in general do what it written in their description individually but it did make me wonder if there is anything else per RAW that they might add.

@Dave Justus
Table variance is always necessary evil. It would seem reasonable to a degree to grant minor penalty (perhaps -2 on precision based tasks) completely as a houserule, but from a mechanical point of view, disease might be already doing just that. Filth Fever inflicts 1d3 Dex and 1d3 Con damage for example. Dex damage is already adding penalty to Dex-based skills, so adding anything above that seems counter-intuitive to me.

Shadow Lodge

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Dave Justus wrote:

"wizard must have enough peace, quiet, and comfort to allow for proper concentration."

Interestingly I never really paid attention to that before. Diseases don't say anything specific about spell preparation, but I think it is certainly within the realm of a GM call whether a disease is severe enough to prevent that concentration from happening. Certainly it is a reasonable supposition that any disease serious enough to cause daily CON loss would be fairly uncomfortable to experience.

There are a lot of things that could reasonably be fairly uncomfortable to experience. For example, extreme temperatures, mosquitoes, rain or snowstorms, or partly-healed wounds. However, it is unusual to tell a wizard that they can't prepare spells while adventuring in a jungle. As you pointed out, it's not fun to have most of your character's abilities neutralized as a side affect of common adventuring hazards. A GM could decide to do so, but I'm of the opinion that anything disrupting spell preparation needs to be (1) rare and (2) designed specifically to disrupt spell preparation.

Malag wrote:
Table variance is always necessary evil. It would seem reasonable to a degree to grant minor penalty (perhaps -2 on precision based tasks) completely as a houserule, but from a mechanical point of view, disease might be already doing just that. Filth Fever inflicts 1d3 Dex and 1d3 Con damage for example. Dex damage is already adding penalty to Dex-based skills, so adding anything above that seems counter-intuitive to me.

Physical and mental precision are different issues, and filth fever doesn't penalize the latter. A more applicable houserule might be to double the time spent preparing spells since it's hard for you to get comfortable enough to concentrate.


Weirdo wrote:


There are a lot of things that could reasonably be fairly uncomfortable to experience. For example, extreme temperatures, mosquitoes, rain or snowstorms, or partly-healed wounds. However, it is unusual to tell a wizard that they can't prepare spells while adventuring in a jungle. As you pointed out, it's not fun to have most of your character's abilities neutralized as a side affect of common adventuring hazards. A GM could decide to do so, but I'm of the opinion that anything disrupting spell preparation needs to be (1) rare and (2) designed specifically to disrupt spell preparation.

Actually it specifically points out inclement weather as preventing spell preparation. I've never really paid attention to any of this, and I'm not sure I would ever include it in my game, but by the rules it does seem that a number of things could make spell preparation impossible.

The question is in the rules forum, and by the rules it is, at the very least, within GM discretion.


It is not RAW or RAI, but something he just happens to like. The game list which mechanical affects disturb spellcasting and preperation. Diseases are not among them.

Sczarni

Weirdo wrote:


Physical and mental precision are different issues, and filth fever doesn't penalize the latter. A more applicable houserule might be to double the time spent preparing spells since it's hard for you to get comfortable enough to concentrate.

That would be much better idea for a houserule indeed.


Does it prevent you from getting a full night's rest? Does it give you penalties in social interactions? Does it prevent you from taking 10? Does it require you to drink more liquids and eat more? Because all of those happened to me with things as little as a cold. The answer is no, because the rules don't say it does. The world described by Pathfinder is only mostly like the real world. If it has its own rules we use those, and we have rules for diseases.

As an aside, is this person pampered in some way? Because I've had both work and college with serious fevers and while not my first choice of what to do I wasn't horribly crippled and unable to do anything.


PRD;magic wrote:
Preparation Environment: To prepare any spell, a wizard must have enough peace, quiet, and comfort to allow for proper concentration. The wizard's surroundings need not be luxurious, but they must be free from distractions. Exposure to inclement weather prevents the necessary concentration, as does any injury or failed saving throw the character might experience while studying. Wizards also must have access to their spellbooks to study from and sufficient light to read them. There is one major exception: a wizard can prepare a read magic spell even without a spellbook.

Looks like RAW there is some support for the GM, especially as there is no set time for a 1/day saving throw. I know in my games I make the 1/day saves in the morning, right about the time most wizards crack open their spell books. Not that I even noticed this before let alone implemented it. Harsh, but not unfair.

Grand Lodge

dragonhunterq wrote:
PRD;magic wrote:
Preparation Environment: To prepare any spell, a wizard must have enough peace, quiet, and comfort to allow for proper concentration. The wizard's surroundings need not be luxurious, but they must be free from distractions. Exposure to inclement weather prevents the necessary concentration, as does any injury or failed saving throw the character might experience while studying. Wizards also must have access to their spellbooks to study from and sufficient light to read them. There is one major exception: a wizard can prepare a read magic spell even without a spellbook.
Looks like RAW there is some support for the GM, especially as there is no set time for a 1/day saving throw. I know in my games I make the 1/day saves in the morning, right about the time most wizards crack open their spell books. Not that I even noticed this before let alone implemented it. Harsh, but not unfair.

So then the wizard just has to restart preparing. It's not like they can only prepare spells once per day at one specific time per day.

Shadow Lodge

That would be a good justification for the "double the time to prepare spells" houserule.

Dave Justus wrote:
Weirdo wrote:
There are a lot of things that could reasonably be fairly uncomfortable to experience. For example, extreme temperatures, mosquitoes, rain or snowstorms, or partly-healed wounds. However, it is unusual to tell a wizard that they can't prepare spells while adventuring in a jungle. As you pointed out, it's not fun to have most of your character's abilities neutralized as a side affect of common adventuring hazards. A GM could decide to do so, but I'm of the opinion that anything disrupting spell preparation needs to be (1) rare and (2) designed specifically to disrupt spell preparation.

Actually it specifically points out inclement weather as preventing spell preparation. I've never really paid attention to any of this, and I'm not sure I would ever include it in my game, but by the rules it does seem that a number of things could make spell preparation impossible.

The question is in the rules forum, and by the rules it is, at the very least, within GM discretion.

Given that the exact wording is "Exposure to inclement weather prevents the necessary concentration" a tent should prevent exposure to most rain and snow and thus allow proper preparation. More severe storms might indeed prevent concentration even in a tent as the tent is buffeted about or precipitation is driven inside. But then, high winds with rain and/or sleet forces a Concentration check for spellcasting. To me, that falls under the category of "a rare event specifically designed to disrupt spellcasters."

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