Core only druid


Advice

1 to 50 of 51 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I figure I'm going to eventually be stuck playing Core only so I'm making a druid who is essentially my original first PFS character minus superior summons and divine interference. The upshot is if it ever converts to regular PFS then I need a whopping 5 PP to fully return to my original character. I could re figure power attack to level 3 but then that leaves my 7th and 11th feats open.

Spoiler:

Race: Human
STR: 16
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 12
WIS: 16 <Stat bumps here>
CHA: 7

Animal Companion: Big Cat(Tiger)

Animal Companion: Big Cat (Tiger)
1: Light Armor Prof
2: Power attack
5: Weapon Focus
8: Improved Natural Armor
10: Improved Natural Armor

Cat, Big (Lion, Tiger)
Starting Statistics: Size Medium; Speed 40 ft.; AC +1 natural armor; Attack bite (1d6), 2 claws (1d4); Ability Scores Str 13, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 10; Special Attacks rake (1d4); Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.

7th-Level Advancement: Size Large; AC +2 natural armor; Attack bite (1d8), 2 claws (1d6); Ability Scores Str +8, Dex –2, Con +4; Special Attacks grab, pounce, rake (1d6) .

Feats
H: SF conjuration
1: Augmented summoning
3:
5: Natural spell
7: Power attack
9: Quicken spell
11:
Traits
Reactionary
Ease of faith (Diplomacy is a class skill and add 1 to diplomacy)

Skills: Perception, Diplomacy, Handle animal, Know-Nature, Spellcraft, Survival

Item purchase order (due to fame)
LVL2 Cloak of resistance +1
LVL4 (+2 mods) +2 str
LVL4 (+2 mods) +2 wisdom item
LVL5 +2 cloak of resistance
LVL5 Eyes of the eagle
LVL6 Amulet of mighty fists
LVL7 +3 cloak of resistance
LVL8 +4 wis
LVL9 +4 str

I need to replace my 3rd level feat and my 11th level feat (Possibly instead my race/stat build) That's the only rules I'll need to replace to Core only my first character as my first core character.

Scarab Sages

For the level three feat you can take toughness for extra hitpoints, or a metamagic feat. Extend or empower are good picks.

Silver Crusade

Unless you're planning on getting medium armour proficiency on the tiger there is little value in light prof. It only saves you a little cash.

Although given that you expect your Level 4 character to have spent 9k on magic items you might need that cash :-).

I expect one aspect of Core will be less characters playing up :-)


I am honestly struggling to think of much that has come out of non core material that has had a huge impact on the abiltiies or powers of druids. Superior Summoning maybe but with the removal of archetypes granting standard action summoning it is less of a big deal.

There certainly hasnt been anything as concept defining/changing as, say, Master of Many Styles or Tetori.


pauljathome wrote:

Unless you're planning on getting medium armour proficiency on the tiger there is little value in light prof. It only saves you a little cash.

Although given that you expect your Level 4 character to have spent 9k on magic items you might need that cash :-).

I expect one aspect of Core will be less characters playing up :-)

Medium armor caps you at max dex. Light armor is better. +4 armor is a more powerful feat than +2 AC with -1 dex max mod. That's just math...

As for the money The armor and a wand will be bought with PP. I don't really expect 9k until level 5 or so. The second +2 item is a typo. Keep in mind this is copied from my first character which did play up under the old rules a lot and really did have about 10k by level 5.

As for playing up if I had the option I'd always play a 2 up to a 4-5, a 4 to a 6-7 and 100% of adventures season 0-3. They've removed the option to do so. Playing up is a matter of skill and character building. Neither of these two things are removed with Core Only.

Silver Crusade

Additional traits seems to be CORE legal, so you could take that once your animal companion is clever enough. Armor Expert and a mithral breastplate (barding) allows you to avoid dealing with non-proficiency.

I second the suggestion for toughness, and maybe dodge/mobility.


Sebastian Hirsch wrote:

Additional traits seems to be CORE legal, so you could take that once your animal companion is clever enough. Armor Expert and a mithral breastplate (barding) allows you to avoid dealing with non-proficiency.

I second the suggestion for toughness, and maybe dodge/mobility.

Dodge is I guess better than improved natural armor for the animal. I could take improved initiative. I don't want to waste 4k in mith on my animal. That's just a waste of gold.

Mithral still requires medium armor prof which is only 1 point better than improved natural armor but costs 4k.

Sczarni

Light Armor Proficiency is a trap. You don't need it, unless you're eventually working towards Heavy Armor Proficiency.

Since Additional Traits is legal, your kitty can use it to take Armor Expert.

Spend 5800gp (4000gp Mithral, 800gp Breastplate Barding, 1000gp for +1) and your kitty now has +7 AC.

There's no ACP, so kitty can wear it with no penalty.

You're using the same amount of feats, but this way you get an extra Trait out of the deal.

Have it wear Masterwork Studded Leather until then.

(also, flagged for Advice Forum)


Nefreet wrote:
Light Armor Proficiency is a trap. You don't need it, unless you're eventually working towards Heavy Armor Proficiency.

I can't understand how +4 AC is a trap feat. Can you explain?

Nefreet wrote:
Since Additional Traits is legal, your kitty can use it to take Armor Expert.

I am not worried about a -1 AC Penalty Unless you're talking about using mithral which I didn't think I could use.

Nefreet wrote:
Spend 5800gp (4000gp Mithral, 800gp Breastplate Barding, 1000gp for +1) and your kitty now has +7 AC.

This is a good plan it's true I didn't think I could use mithral but I guess my animal is a different creature.

Nefreet wrote:

There's no ACP, so kitty can wear it with no penalty.

You're using the same amount of feats, but this way you get an extra Trait out of the deal.

Have it wear Masterwork Studded Leather until then.

(also, flagged for Advice Forum)

Fair enough.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Undone wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
Light Armor Proficiency is a trap. You don't need it, unless you're eventually working towards Heavy Armor Proficiency.

I can't understand how +4 AC is a trap feat. Can you explain?

If you can get the ACP to 0 from other measures (mithral, trait, etc.) then there is no penalty for wearing armor you are not proficient in.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Undone wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
Light Armor Proficiency is a trap. You don't need it, unless you're eventually working towards Heavy Armor Proficiency.

I can't understand how +4 AC is a trap feat. Can you explain?

It's not +4 AC for a feat, it's +1 AC for a feat. You can wear Masterwork Studded leather armor without proficiency with no penalty as it has no ACP.

Undone wrote:


Nefreet wrote:
Since Additional Traits is legal, your kitty can use it to take Armor Expert.

I am not worried about a -1 AC Penalty Unless you're talking about using mithral which I didn't think I could use.

The only issue with the armor check penalty is that it is an attack penalty for non-proficiency. The trait makes that go away for an effective proficiency without the need for actual proficiency.


So MW mithral armor decreases ACP by 3 and the trait gives you prof in it since ACP 0= proficient. It's 5,200 for a +1 Mith Breastplate which would be +7/+5 allowing for a huge AC bonus. I get it now.

The base character is interesting because I kind of want an 18 instead of 2 separate 16s but I'm not sure.

Silver Crusade

6 people marked this as a favorite.

I taking bets on how it is before CORE campaign GMs start complaining about how CORE didn't fix pounce kitties.


David Bowles wrote:
I taking bets on how it is before CORE campaign GMs start complaining about how CORE didn't fix pounce kitties.

It literally happened before the mode came out, and before that in season 0.

For those commenting in this thread I'm curious if you think additional traits and 3,300 gp is better than a feat since mith chain shirts are 1,100 gp. That would give me a real feat and another 3,300 gp which in the long term slightly decreases AC but also decreases the needed gold investment.

Sczarni

Undone wrote:
It's 5,200 for a +1 Mith Breastplate

5,800 if you want Barding for a large kitty.

5,400 if you want Barding for a medium kitty.

And since kitty isn't large until later, just have it wear studded leather until then. You'll have time to increase its Int to 3, and save up for the purchase.

Scarab Sages

The chain shirt is probably adequate, and frees up a feat. It just depends on how much you want to devote to defense for your companion.

Sczarni

Mithral Chain Shirt Barding (Large): 1400gp / +4 AC
Barding +1: 2400gp / +5 AC
Barding +2: 5400gp / +6 AC
Barding +3: 10400gp / +7 AC

Mithral Breastplate Barding (Large): 4800gp / +6 AC
Barding +1: 5800gp / +7 AC
Barding +2: 8800gp / +9 AC


A problem with your plan: Improved Natural Armor is not in the CRB.

Silver Crusade

Nefreet wrote:

Light Armor Proficiency is a trap. You don't need it, unless you're eventually working towards Heavy Armor Proficiency.

Since Additional Traits is legal, your kitty can use it to take Armor Expert.

Spend 5800gp (4000gp Mithral, 800gp Breastplate Barding, 1000gp for +1) and your kitty now has +7 AC.

There's no ACP, so kitty can wear it with no penalty.

You're using the same amount of feats, but this way you get an extra Trait out of the deal.

Have it wear Masterwork Studded Leather until then.

(also, flagged for Advice Forum)

There is a problem with moving this one, the people in the advice forum will have no clear idea, that the OP wants a Druid character for CORE, which is not the same as CRB only (and doesn't mention the PFS bit).

Sczarni

Artoo wrote:
A problem with your plan: Improved Natural Armor is not in the CRB.

Yes, it is.

Silver Crusade

David Bowles wrote:
I taking bets on how it is before CORE campaign GMs start complaining about how CORE didn't fix pounce kitties.

David, we know about your opinion regarding the animal companion issue, but I would argue that with CORE animal companions will thrive, since almost everything they use is in the CRB (additional traits is an awesome cherry on top).

Scarab Sages

Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
I taking bets on how it is before CORE campaign GMs start complaining about how CORE didn't fix pounce kitties.

David, we know about your opinion regarding the animal companion issue, but I would argue that with CORE animal companions will thrive, since almost everything they use is in the CRB (additional traits is an awesome cherry on top).

The only thing is that they are effectively limited to Druid only, as ranger and animal domain companions are far too squishy without boon companion.

Sczarni

Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
(also, flagged for Advice Forum)
There is a problem with moving this one, the people in the advice forum will have no clear idea, that the OP wants a Druid character for CORE, which is not the same as CRB only (and doesn't mention the PFS bit).

He's asking Advice.

This is not the Advice Forum.

He's stipulated his restrictions: using only the CRB.

It'd be no different than if someone was seeking advice for a homegame using only the CRB.

And it would set a bad precedent leaving it here. Then we'd have a flurry of "Need Core Advice" threads popping up.

This isn't the place for them.

Silver Crusade

Imbicatus wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
I taking bets on how it is before CORE campaign GMs start complaining about how CORE didn't fix pounce kitties.

David, we know about your opinion regarding the animal companion issue, but I would argue that with CORE animal companions will thrive, since almost everything they use is in the CRB (additional traits is an awesome cherry on top).

The only thing is that they are effectively limited to Druid only, as ranger and animal domain companions are far too squishy without boon companion.

Actually post character level 5-6 you can layer so many defensive buffs on them that they can be very efficient tanks (of course depending on party composition), and frankly since they are so squishy some players will just expect them to die in every scenario. I don't like it, but if no options to increase survive ability are legal...

@Nefreet: fair enough, maybe we will get a PFS advice forum some day ^^

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
I taking bets on how it is before CORE campaign GMs start complaining about how CORE didn't fix pounce kitties.

David, we know about your opinion regarding the animal companion issue, but I would argue that with CORE animal companions will thrive, since almost everything they use is in the CRB (additional traits is an awesome cherry on top).

Yeah. That was the point of my post. They are going to dominate games and all the GMs that expected "balance" are going to be crying in their beer.

Grand Lodge

The Core Campaign hit my desire to play a druid very hard. The removal of some thematic elements, such as Urban Druid, makes it difficult for me to justify why too many druids would have joined the Society. It is my favorite class =/

I'm sure some Mwangi might have interest with the Society's increased efforts there. Maybe some druids from the Taldan/Andoran Verduran Forest have some stakes in rallying the Sovereign Court in order to use the ties to preserve their forest. Perhaps the Society rescued some civilians from what was left of a village bordering The Worldwound, one of the people happened to be a druid who felt the need to repay the debt. Still, maybe a particularly bright and curious druid sees joining the Society as a way to explore more natural environments.

I guess there are lots of hooks if one takes a moment.

Silver Crusade

David Bowles wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
I taking bets on how it is before CORE campaign GMs start complaining about how CORE didn't fix pounce kitties.

David, we know about your opinion regarding the animal companion issue, but I would argue that with CORE animal companions will thrive, since almost everything they use is in the CRB (additional traits is an awesome cherry on top).

Yeah. That was the point of my post. They are going to dominate games and all the GMs that expected "balance" are going to be crying in their beer.

Yeah, I really would like some options for animal companions, so they do not cause the problem you have experienced (standing in front of the enemies so your dwarf (?) can enter melee, taking the spotlight from other characters etc...), nothing mentioned about that in Pathfinder unchained just yet, but even if that includes those alternatives... they won't be available in core.

So yeah the animal companion situation will be even worse ^^


David Bowles wrote:
Yeah. That was the point of my post. They are going to dominate games and all the GMs that expected "balance" are going to be crying in their beer.

Little dwarf, I do not drink.


Nefreet wrote:
Artoo wrote:
A problem with your plan: Improved Natural Armor is not in the CRB.
Yes, it is.

I'm sorry, but that's like saying that Improved Unarmed Strike is from ACG because it's mentioned in the Brawler entry. Improved Natural Armor isn't actually described anywhere in the CRB. Without referencing the Bestiary you can't know what that feat does.

Scarab Sages

Artoo wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
Artoo wrote:
A problem with your plan: Improved Natural Armor is not in the CRB.
Yes, it is.
I'm sorry, but that's like saying that Improved Unarmed Strike is from ACG because it's mentioned in the Brawler entry. Improved Natural Armor isn't actually described anywhere in the CRB. Without referencing the Bestiary you can't know what that feat does.

But it was said that if the CRB references something from bestiary 1, then that could be used in Core (like for wild shaping).


Artoo wrote:
I'm sorry, but that's like saying that Improved Unarmed Strike is from ACG because it's mentioned in the Brawler entry. Improved Natural Armor isn't actually described anywhere in the CRB. Without referencing the Bestiary you can't know what that feat does.

For Core only if the CRB references something outside of the CRB you can use it. Summon spells, mounts, animal companions exct.


Dhjika wrote:
Artoo wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
Artoo wrote:
A problem with your plan: Improved Natural Armor is not in the CRB.
Yes, it is.
I'm sorry, but that's like saying that Improved Unarmed Strike is from ACG because it's mentioned in the Brawler entry. Improved Natural Armor isn't actually described anywhere in the CRB. Without referencing the Bestiary you can't know what that feat does.

But it was said that if the CRB references something from bestiary 1, then that could be used in Core (like for wild shaping).

Ah, I was not aware of that clarification.


We've got a GM who only wants to run Core Only Adventures now I'm now dead set to make the most optimized PC I possibly can for his game and I'm thinking this druid almost is.


Undone wrote:
We've got a GM who only wants to run Core Only Adventures now I'm now dead set to make the most optimized PC I possibly can for his game

That sounds antagonistic, like a possibly passive-aggressive way to register your feelings about the Core game offering.

I'm hoping I misunderstood.


outshyn wrote:
Undone wrote:
We've got a GM who only wants to run Core Only Adventures now I'm now dead set to make the most optimized PC I possibly can for his game

That sounds antagonistic, like a possibly passive-aggressive way to register your feelings about the Core game offering.

I'm hoping I misunderstood.

I just meant that most PC's are going to be under powered. (Lots of rogues, monks, and fighters) I'm going to end up stuck at the table sometimes so I'd rather not die which while levels 1-3 might not be lethal to bad characters season 4-6 3-7s, 5-9s, and 7-11 are impossible with those three classes being most of the group (Silver mount collection, Fate of the fiend, golemworks incident are all good examples) if you can't carry it.

Sczarni

Artoo wrote:
Dhjika wrote:
Artoo wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
Artoo wrote:
A problem with your plan: Improved Natural Armor is not in the CRB.
Yes, it is.
I'm sorry, but that's like saying that Improved Unarmed Strike is from ACG because it's mentioned in the Brawler entry. Improved Natural Armor isn't actually described anywhere in the CRB. Without referencing the Bestiary you can't know what that feat does.

But it was said that if the CRB references something from bestiary 1, then that could be used in Core (like for wild shaping).

Ah, I was not aware of that clarification.

That's always been the case in PFS.

Otherwise you couldn't use Summon Spells, Animate Dead, Polymorph Spells, Wildshape, or purchase a Heavy Horse.

Nothing changed regarding that.


andreww wrote:

I am honestly struggling to think of much that has come out of non core material that has had a huge impact on the abiltiies or powers of druids. Superior Summoning maybe but with the removal of archetypes granting standard action summoning it is less of a big deal.

There certainly hasnt been anything as concept defining/changing as, say, Master of Many Styles or Tetori.

The Saurian Shaman represents a pretty big bump up for purely martial druids, but I think that's it.

And yeah, LOL at anyone who thinks Core PFS will have any semblance of balance. All hail the return of CoDzilla!

Scarab Sages

Goliath Druid is a pretty big buff for wildshape druids, and there is Cave Druid and the Ooze with the massive keen slam. Behemoth Hippo form is in bestiary two.

But core druid is still able to put out massive damage by wildshape and companion.


Imbicatus wrote:

Goliath Druid is a pretty big buff for wildshape druids, and there is Cave Druid and the Ooze with the massive keen slam. Behemoth Hippo form is in bestiary two.

But core druid is still able to put out massive damage by wildshape and companion.

My plan was to summon while my animal front lined. Because druids don't really benefit from excessively high str (No str and a half) it lets you get solid all around stats. That versatility is extremely strong since it lets you do whatever you want for the specific situation. I will miss access to ant haul (Huge Dino and ant haul out ran a roc while having half a ton in tow) but for the most part the spells I want are core. I could also front line with the above build.

Quote:

The Saurian Shaman represents a pretty big bump up for purely martial druids, but I think that's it.

I agree I don't think it's as strong for summoner types as people claim. It's good but you really want earth elementals, cyclops, ettins, tigers, and stirges against larger monsters.


Just outta curiosity. Is there any reason not to play a druid in Core PFS?

It just seems so vastly superior to everything else (with exception of maybe skills) I'm thinking the PFS people might start to regret the decision for a core campaign pretty soon.

Scarab Sages

It's a pain to bypass DR as a core druid. You need one or two amulets of mighty fists depending on if you wildshape, and they aren't cheap. You need to split your gold equipping you and your companion, so your personal gear may be a little light.

Other than that, they have very few downsides.


Alex Mack wrote:

Just outta curiosity. Is there any reason not to play a druid in Core PFS?

It just seems so vastly superior to everything else (with exception of maybe skills) I'm thinking the PFS people might start to regret the decision for a core campaign pretty soon.

You might want to play a Cleric instead.


Core Barbarian and Paladin aren't too shabby.

There's probably no better force multiplier (in the Core) than the Bard.

Rangers and Fighters make really solid Archers.

You can make a reach Cleric straight from the Core, even if you lack standard action summons.

Core Wizards are very powerful anvils.

Pretty much, Druids are really strong, but there's certainly things that they can't really do as well as other classes.


I'd agree that Barbarian and Paladin are the premier martials. But can they outdamage druid and pet?

A reach cleric sans strong standard actions looses a lot of it's appeal imo. That leaves you with self Buffs and Save or suck spells for which you will lack the requisit WIS.

Rangers loose a lot of combat viability when Boon Companion is not an option.

I'd never want to bring a core Fighter to a PFS game. What are you gonna contribute outside of combat?

Wizards still have the better spells but they don't have a pouncy friend or armor or hulksmash mode.


Alex Mack wrote:

Just outta curiosity. Is there any reason not to play a druid in Core PFS?

It just seems so vastly superior to everything else (with exception of maybe skills) I'm thinking the PFS people might start to regret the decision for a core campaign pretty soon.

The bard is a good choice if you have druids.

Quote:

It's a pain to bypass DR as a core druid. You need one or two amulets of mighty fists depending on if you wildshape, and they aren't cheap. You need to split your gold equipping you and your companion, so your personal gear may be a little light.

Other than that, they have very few downsides.

Pulling 10 points off 30 is tough. Pulling 50 points off 100 is still less than pulling 10 points off 30. Alternatively you can buy a holy AoMF instead and use GMF for the magic effect. There is simply no way to bypass adamant so just buff up damage (animal growth vicious weapons exct).

Quote:
You might want to play a Cleric instead.

The core cleric, while absurdly powerful, is not so fun without APG subdomains or standard action summons since fighter type clerics are bad and defensive clerics aren't great leaving you a caster cleric which has mostly boring (But highly effective) options.

Quote:
Core Barbarian and Paladin aren't too shabby.

I disagree on the core only barb, an animal companion is competitive in damage which makes me shy away from it. The Paladin on the other hand has a unique feature in core only in that it can bypass nearly ALL dr in core only. Something which isn't an easy feat to do.

Quote:
There's probably no better force multiplier (in the Core) than the Bard.

Admittedly 4 druids, wizard, bard is probably the best core party.

Quote:
Rangers and Fighters make really solid Archers.

Rangers a little, fighters just no. No. Seriously. Your will save is just garbage and makes the character terrible especially in the land of Core Only.

Quote:
You can make a reach Cleric straight from the Core, even if you lack standard action summons.

That really sort of defeats the purpose of the reach cleric. You'd be better off with a reach barb or something.

Quote:
Core Wizards are very powerful anvils.

Core wizards, druids, and clerics are the strongest classes in the game it makes sense they'd stay strong in core only.

Quote:
Pretty much, Druids are really strong, but there's certainly things that they can't really do as well as other classes.

The only classes which do something useful/powerful that the druid can't or doesn't do are wizard, cleric, and bard. All of the other core classes don't measure up to a lion and a full caster.


Come to think of it a Reach Bard is prolly pretty solid option for Core. He has great Buffs and can prolly get away with only 14 or so STR (after level 4 he likely always has heroism up anyhow) allowing you to Still get an 18 in your casting/social skill stat.

Also he's very likely to be adventuring with at least one big cat :)


Alex Mack wrote:

Come to think of it a Reach Bard is prolly pretty solid option for Core. He has great Buffs and can prolly get away with only 14 or so STR (after level 4 he likely always has heroism up anyhow) allowing you to Still get an 18 in your casting/social skill stat.

Also he's very likely to be adventuring with at least one big cat :)

I'm thinking any 20 casting stat caster is going to be the best option by level 3 while still being incredible at levels 1-2 with grease/color spray.


Undone wrote:
Artoo wrote:
I'm sorry, but that's like saying that Improved Unarmed Strike is from ACG because it's mentioned in the Brawler entry. Improved Natural Armor isn't actually described anywhere in the CRB. Without referencing the Bestiary you can't know what that feat does.
For Core only if the CRB references something outside of the CRB you can use it. Summon spells, mounts, animal companions exct.

That's the general rule, the specific rule of PFS says you can't use any feats from the bestiary. Animal Companions/Wild Shape yes, feats no.


Jodokai wrote:
Undone wrote:
Artoo wrote:
I'm sorry, but that's like saying that Improved Unarmed Strike is from ACG because it's mentioned in the Brawler entry. Improved Natural Armor isn't actually described anywhere in the CRB. Without referencing the Bestiary you can't know what that feat does.
For Core only if the CRB references something outside of the CRB you can use it. Summon spells, mounts, animal companions exct.
That's the general rule, the specific rule of PFS says you can't use any feats from the bestiary. Animal Companions/Wild Shape yes, feats no.

Unless the CRB tells you ya can. All of the feats the under available for animal companions are legal.


Undone wrote:
Unless the CRB tells you ya can. All of the feats the under available for animal companions are legal.

Wow. When I first started playing PFS you couldn't use them, back in 2011 they made the change and I never noticed.

1 to 50 of 51 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Core only druid All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.