A stealth + Greater Invisibility Question


Rules Questions


The Scenario:

I am under the effects of greater invisibility, and have just made a full attack action.

The Question:
Can I take a 5' step and make a stealth check after a full attack action to prevent my opponent from knowing exactly which square I'm standing in?

The Rules:

Stealth:

(Dex; Armor Check Penalty)
You are skilled at avoiding detection, allowing you to slip past foes or strike from an unseen position. This skill covers hiding and moving silently.

Check: Your Stealth check is opposed by the Perception check of anyone who might notice you. Creatures that fail to beat your Stealth check are not aware of you and treat you as if you had total concealment. You can move up to half your normal speed and use Stealth at no penalty. When moving at a speed greater than half but less than your normal speed, you take a -5 penalty. It's impossible to use Stealth while attacking, running, or charging.

Creatures gain a bonus or penalty on Stealth checks based on their size: Fine +16, Diminutive +12, Tiny +8, Small +4, Medium +0, Large -4, Huge -8, Gargantuan -12, Colossal -16.

If people are observing you using any of their senses (but typically sight), you can't use Stealth. Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth. If your observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check), you can attempt to use Stealth. While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Stealth check if you can get to an unobserved place of some kind. This check, however, is made at a –10 penalty because you have to move fast.

Breaking Stealth: When you start your turn using Stealth, you can leave cover or concealment and remain unobserved as long as you succeed at a Stealth check and end your turn in cover or concealment. Your Stealth immediately ends after you make and attack roll, whether or not the attack is successful (except when sniping as noted below).

Sniping: If you've already successfully used Stealth at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack and then immediately use Stealth again. You take a –20 penalty on your Stealth check to maintain your obscured location.

Creating a Diversion to Hide: You can use Bluff to allow you to use Stealth. A successful Bluff check can give you the momentary diversion you need to attempt a Stealth check while people are aware of you.

Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn't take a separate action. However, using Stealth immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action.

Special: If you are invisible, you gain a +40 bonus on Stealth checks if you are immobile, or a +20 bonus on Stealth checks if you're moving.

If you have the Stealthy feat, you get a bonus on Stealth checks (see Feats).

Greater Invisibility:
School illusion (glamer); Level bard 4, sorcerer/wizard 4
Components: V, S
Target you or creature touched
Duration 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless)
This spell functions like invisibility, except that it doesn't end if the subject attacks.

Invisibility:
School illusion (glamer); Level bard 2, sorcerer/wizard 2
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M/DF (an eyelash encased in gum arabic)
Range personal or touch
Target you or a creature or object weighing no more than 100 lbs./level
Duration 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless) or Will negates (harmless, object); Spell Resistance yes (harmless) or yes (harmless, object)
The creature or object touched becomes invisible. If the recipient is a creature carrying gear, that vanishes, too. If you cast the spell on someone else, neither you nor your allies can see the subject, unless you can normally see invisible things or you employ magic to do so.

Items dropped or put down by an invisible creature become visible; items picked up disappear if tucked into the clothing or pouches worn by the creature. Light, however, never becomes invisible, although a source of light can become so (thus, the effect is that of a light with no visible source). Any part of an item that the subject carries but that extends more than 10 feet from it becomes visible.

Of course, the subject is not magically silenced, and certain other conditions can render the recipient detectable (such as swimming in water or stepping in a puddle). If a check is required, a stationary invisible creature has a +40 bonus on its Stealth checks. This bonus is reduced to +20 if the creature is moving. The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature. For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe. Exactly who is a foe depends on the invisible character's perceptions. Actions directed at unattended objects do not break the spell. Causing harm indirectly is not an attack. Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth. If the subject attacks directly, however, it immediately becomes visible along with all its gear. Spells such as bless that specifically affect allies but not foes are not attacks for this purpose, even when they include foes in their area.

Invisibility can be made permanent (on objects only) with a permanency spell.


Well honestly you don't need to.

Invisibility Special Ability:
If an invisible creature strikes a character, the character struck knows the location of the creature that struck him (until, of course, the invisible creature moves). The only exception is if the invisible creature has a reach greater than 5 feet. In this case, the struck character knows the general location of the creature but has not pinpointed the exact location.

If a character tries to attack an invisible creature whose location he has pinpointed, he attacks normally, but the invisible creature still benefits from full concealment (and thus a 50% miss chance). A particularly large and slow invisible creature might get a smaller miss chance.

If a character tries to attack an invisible creature whose location he has not pinpointed, have the player choose the space where the character will direct the attack. If the invisible creature is there, conduct the attack normally. If the enemy's not there, roll the miss chance as if it were there and tell him that the character has missed, regardless of the result. That way the player doesn't know whether the attack missed because the enemy's not there or because you successfully rolled the miss chance.


If you are using a ranged weapon, then you have nothing to worry about, if not then yea you can make the 5 foot shift with a stealth check at a +20 bonus (as opposed to +40)
This is where ranged weapons dominate:
Sniping:
If you've already successfully used Stealth at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack and then immediately use Stealth again. You take a –20 penalty on your Stealth check to maintain your obscured location.


Remember:

"A creature can generally notice the presence of an active invisible creature within 30 feet with a DC 20 Perception check. The observer gains a hunch that “something's there” but can't see it or target it accurately with an attack. It's practically impossible (+20 DC) to pinpoint an invisible creature's location with a Perception check. Even once a character has pinpointed the square that contains an invisible creature, the creature still benefits from total concealment (50% miss chance). There are a number of modifiers that can be applied to this DC if the invisible creature is moving or engaged in a noisy activity."

Or look here: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ll1q?How-Hard-is-it-to-Pinpoint-an-Invisible-W izard

When you melee attack
You can 5'step to any direction, and the opponent take a try. Use lunge or ranged melee weapon to difficult more.


Technically speaking, the stealth skill says that the check usually doesn't require an action, because it is part of a move action. Taking a 5-foot step is not a move action, so I don't think you get to make a stealth check per RAW. I would set the DC to spot you at 20 (with possible modifiers for size and/or distance).
Alternatively you could make one attack and use a move action to move to a different square and make a stealth check, where you get to add dex and possibly skill ranks to the DC.


Lifat wrote:

Technically speaking, the stealth skill says that the check usually doesn't require an action, because it is part of a move action. Taking a 5-foot step is not a move action, so I don't think you get to make a stealth check per RAW. I would set the DC to spot you at 20 (with possible modifiers for size and/or distance).

Alternatively you could make one attack and use a move action to move to a different square and make a stealth check, where you get to add dex and possibly skill ranks to the DC.
Stealth wrote:
Usually none. Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn't take a separate action.

The interpretation of what stealth can be used with is open to GM discretion. My GM had me make stealth checks to open doors quietly.

EDIT: wow even I misread it, it doesn't even say "as part of a move action" just as part of movement so there's your answer


A 5' step after attacking prevents anyone that was able to beat your enhanced stealth DC with their perception check from being able to counter-attack you effectively because the movement foils their ability to pinpoint your location.

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