Marvel Universe ends, new combined one starts May with Issue #2 of Secret Wars


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Quite honestly, you get that "OMG squicky" dynamic with every immortal character who dates someone who inevitably is younger than her/himself. So the best you can do is gloss over it, because you want those people to remain sexless for your comfort?


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magnuskn wrote:
Quite honestly, you get that "OMG squicky" dynamic with every immortal character who dates someone who inevitably is younger than her/himself. So the best you can do is gloss over it, because you want those people to remain sexless for your comfort?

For me it gets a lot squickier when they're interested in people who are still pretty young by their own standards. Even if legal.

Much like the 40 year old dating the 19 year old is squicky. Legal, but squicky.


yep.

If Wolverine was dating someone in the late 20's-early 30's, I would actually think it was less squicky, because the age gap isn't also paired with a maturity gap


So long as both parties WANT the relationship and are able to consent to it, I fail miserably to see the squick in it. If it's important to you that nobody has sex that would squick you out, well, you have a pretty massive job in front of you.


Because 19 is barely legal would it be ok if the other was 15 instead of 19?

Sovereign Court

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squicky.. does that term apply when young looking Cap America visits 90 year old Peggy Carter and the scene fades to black with sounds of heavy kissing and moaning?


Okay, we're done here.

EDIT: Well ninja'd, Purple Dragon Knight. Well ninja'd. My post is made without regard to PDK's. Which is actually really sweet.


So, new topic: everyone has opinions!


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Another optional topic: I love Ultimate Spiderman (the first issues)!


Sissyl wrote:
So long as both parties WANT the relationship and are able to consent to it, I fail miserably to see the squick in it. If it's important to you that nobody has sex that would squick you out, well, you have a pretty massive job in front of you.

Bothers me less in fiction of course, unless it's being obviously done for fantasy material.

But still, even with normal, non-peudo immortals, I would be bothered by a 45 year old dating a 16 year old - even though that's legal in most places. Even if they both appear to want the relationship, there are serious maturity imbalances. In fiction, it's possible to make that work, but it would have to addressed, not just glossed over.


Yet another optional topic: So how about that Marvel Universe ends, new combined one starts May with Issue #2 of Secret Wars?


I mean, we are definitely diving toward "threadlock" territory.

So let's not do that.


I hate things!


I see things.


I GM things.


I... edit... things.
EDIT: Like this post.
EDIT 2: YoU csee what eyeI did theare.
EDIT 3: See above
EDIT 4: Dang it, it's "You see what I did there." that's what the above is supposed to be, "You see what I did there." uuuuuuuggggggh.


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I prevent forum fires.


I don't get things backwards or mixed up.


Eye od!


I drink water.


I'm totally Mikaze. Fo shizzle.


thejeff wrote:
Sissyl wrote:
So long as both parties WANT the relationship and are able to consent to it, I fail miserably to see the squick in it. If it's important to you that nobody has sex that would squick you out, well, you have a pretty massive job in front of you.

Bothers me less in fiction of course, unless it's being obviously done for fantasy material.

But still, even with normal, non-peudo immortals, I would be bothered by a 45 year old dating a 16 year old - even though that's legal in most places. Even if they both appear to want the relationship, there are serious maturity imbalances. In fiction, it's possible to make that work, but it would have to addressed, not just glossed over.

Since seeing this, I have always felt it is a good rule of thumb


Vlaeros wrote:
Eye od!

This is more correct than you know.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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Then I pronounce you wife and man.

==Aelryinth


Vlaeros wrote:
Eye od!

Erg.

Vlaeros wrote:
Eye I (am) odd!

There. Fixed it for you.

EDIT: Really, now, it's not that hard.

EDIT 2: Just get your act together, man!


Vlaeros wrote:
Eye I (am) odd!
Ninja-Assassin wrote:
There. Fixed it for you.

But... that's not what I wrote or meant.


Vlaeros wrote:
Vlaeros wrote:
Eye I (am) odd!
Ninja-Assassin wrote:
There. Fixed it for you.
But... that's not what I wrote or meant.

>.>

<.<

Okay, fine. Let's do this.

Vlaeros wrote:
(My) Eeye (is) odd!

EDIT:

Vlaeros wrote:
(My) Eeye (is) odd!

And just in case that's not enough, take this:

Vlaeros wrote:
(My) Eeyes (are) odd!

EDIT 2: Hah! I have covered all possible meanings!


Er... no, eye'm afrayd knot.


Vlaeros wrote:
Er... no, eye'm afrayd knot.

o.O

>:I

Okay. Let's play.

*cracks knuckles and neck*

EDIT: First, take this.

Vlaeros wrote:
Er... no, eyeI'm afrayid knot.

EDIT 2: And, now, I give you two.

Vlaeros wrote:
(My left) Eeye (is) odd!

OR

Vlaeros wrote:
(My right) Eeye (is) odd!

BAM. Bases covered.


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thejeff wrote:
Sissyl wrote:
So long as both parties WANT the relationship and are able to consent to it, I fail miserably to see the squick in it. If it's important to you that nobody has sex that would squick you out, well, you have a pretty massive job in front of you.

Bothers me less in fiction of course, unless it's being obviously done for fantasy material.

But still, even with normal, non-peudo immortals, I would be bothered by a 45 year old dating a 16 year old - even though that's legal in most places. Even if they both appear to want the relationship, there are serious maturity imbalances. In fiction, it's possible to make that work, but it would have to addressed, not just glossed over.

Again considering normal people, at what age do you consider them mature and able to make their own decisions? Or is it a continuous thing? If it is, wouldn't it be more squicky to have a 90-year-old dating a 60-year-old than a 45-19 couple?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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That should properly be "Eye m aye phrayed knot."


Aelryinth wrote:
That should properly be "Eye m aye phrayed knot."

O, yah! Gud kahl!

Nanny-Sass'rwatever wrote:
stuff

Nah, brah, I think you're jus' gettin' it all wro-


Vlaeros wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:
That should properly be "Eye m aye phrayed knot."

O, yah! Gud kahl!

Nanny-Sass'rwatever wrote:
stuff
Nah, brah, I think you're jus' gettin' it all wro-

õ.Õ

*twitch*

EDIT:

Vlaeros wrote:
EyYe (are) odd!

OR

Vlaeros wrote:
EyeI (am not) odd!

OR EVEN

Vlaeros wrote:
SkEye god!

>:D


I htink yu'r just overlee-complincatin' htis.

Relacks. Odn't let it bother yuh, brah.


RRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGG-


-GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

... wait, why am I being repeatedly summoned to this thread?


Sissyl wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Sissyl wrote:
So long as both parties WANT the relationship and are able to consent to it, I fail miserably to see the squick in it. If it's important to you that nobody has sex that would squick you out, well, you have a pretty massive job in front of you.

Bothers me less in fiction of course, unless it's being obviously done for fantasy material.

But still, even with normal, non-peudo immortals, I would be bothered by a 45 year old dating a 16 year old - even though that's legal in most places. Even if they both appear to want the relationship, there are serious maturity imbalances. In fiction, it's possible to make that work, but it would have to addressed, not just glossed over.

Again considering normal people, at what age do you consider them mature and able to make their own decisions? Or is it a continuous thing? If it is, wouldn't it be more squicky to have a 90-year-old dating a 60-year-old than a 45-19 couple?

More of a diminishing returns thing. Age difference matters less as you get older.

There's also a difference between respecting the younger one's decisions and thinking the older one is creepy for wanting the relationship at all.

For the high end example, as long as there aren't the kinds of mental issues that sometimes affect the elderly involved, wouldn't bother me.


I always figured age of maturity was a neat concept, that after this someone was responsible for their own life. Thus, I don't get squick about other age differences. Nor, of course, do I consider it something I am entitled to judge if people I am not in a relationship with want o have certain types of sex, or the like. Of course, most couples do not have a big age difference. Different points of one's life, and all that.


Sissyl wrote:
I always figured age of maturity was a neat concept, that after this someone was responsible for their own life. Thus, I don't get squick about other age differences. Nor, of course, do I consider it something I am entitled to judge if people I am not in a relationship with want o have certain types of sex, or the like. Of course, most couples do not have a big age difference. Different points of one's life, and all that.

It's a nice thought. Nice binary dividing line and all that.

It's never actually worked that way in human culture. Even those traditional cultures with coming of age rituals and ceremonies still don't treat all adults as equally responsible, from the elders to those newly come of age.

In most of the modern world we don't even have that fine of a line. In the US, for example, there is no "age of maturity". There are different ages for different things - voting, drinking, driving, getting drafted, sex, as well as various religious coming of age rituals. Sex usually has some kind of sliding scale as well, so that those below a certain age aren't punished for sex with each other. Pornography has its own age limit.


As thejeff points out, it's a relative maturity thing. If Jean was mid-20s or older, have at it.

Also, at the time, I'm pretty sure Wolverine had just pitched Cyclops off a cliff (more specifically, Cyclops was hanging off a cliff and Wolverine knocked him off rather than rescuing him) and was comforting a grieving Jean. Though that's a completely separate issue of douchebaggery.


Funny thing, isn't it, that the age you're allowed to do more and more things keeps rising. Would that have anything to do with that age also determining who gets to vote?

What also baffles me is that if the lines are as fluid as you say, why are they not when it gets to sex? I am referring to cases like a girl getting registered as a sex offender for having naked photos of herself in her mobile phone at the age of 17...


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Sissyl wrote:

Funny thing, isn't it, that the age you're allowed to do more and more things keeps rising. Would that have anything to do with that age also determining who gets to vote?

What also baffles me is that if the lines are as fluid as you say, why are they not when it gets to sex? I am referring to cases like a girl getting registered as a sex offender for having naked photos of herself in her mobile phone at the age of 17...

1) They are when it comes to sex. That comes from pornography laws, which were in general a good thing when it came to keeping young girls from being exploited for sex and money. We really do need to revisit how they apply in an age where naked selfies are much more common and transmissible. While still keeping children from working in porn.

2) Since there is no specific "age you're allowed to do more and more things", it's not also the age determining who gets to vote. In the US, that age actually dropped most recently and I don't believe has ever risen. It started at 21 nationally and changed to 18 in the 70s.
So no. I don't think there's a relationship there.


I don't agree. If there are cases (and there are) where a 15-year-old gets thrown in prison with a serious sentence for having sex with a 14-year-old the day before her 15th birthday, you can't honestly make a case for these limits being fluid when it comes to sex.

And if they are not fluid when it comes to sex, why should they suddenly be when it comes to relationships?

EDIT: Hmmm. No need to further derail this thread. Bowing out, giving you the last word if you wish.


Sissyl wrote:

I don't agree. If there are cases (and there are) where a 15-year-old gets thrown in prison with a serious sentence for having sex with a 14-year-old the day before her 15th birthday, you can't honestly make a case for these limits being fluid when it comes to sex.

And if they are not fluid when it comes to sex, why should they suddenly be when it comes to relationships?

EDIT: Hmmm. No need to further derail this thread. Bowing out, giving you the last word if you wish.

Yeah, but those rules and limits change with geography greatly, both in what they are and how they are prosecuted, so trying to say they are somehow static or rigid is also a fallacy.


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Sissyl wrote:

I don't agree. If there are cases (and there are) where a 15-year-old gets thrown in prison with a serious sentence for having sex with a 14-year-old the day before her 15th birthday, you can't honestly make a case for these limits being fluid when it comes to sex.

And if they are not fluid when it comes to sex, why should they suddenly be when it comes to relationships?

EDIT: Hmmm. No need to further derail this thread. Bowing out, giving you the last word if you wish.

Fluid is probably not the right word. I said "Usually on a sliding scale" and also noted there is no general "Age of Maturity".

In that particular case, I assume there wasn't a sliding scale. They do exist in most places, though only up to a certain age, after which it's legally a free-for-all.

That said, no one has suggested such relationships should be illegal, just that we find the older partner suspicious, to say the least.

It doesn't say good things about Ultimate Wolverine, that he's involved with a 19 year old. Again, at least in fiction, it's possible to make it work, generally by acknowledging the age difference and going to greater lengths to make the relationship work despite that. Also, it may not have been intended to make Logan look good. He certainly has issues even in the main MU and Ultimates tend to nastier. (I haven't actually read the story in question)

I think the other relationship mentioned earlier Colossus and Kitty, back in the day, handled it about as well as possible. Mostly by having her be the aggressor and him resisting her advances and only slowly giving in. As far as I recall, they never went beyond kissing in the original stories and even that took awhile.

Edit: I was thinking the same, but I almost managed to bend it back to topic, so I figured I'd post once more. :)

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

IT was complete douchebaggery on Wolverine's part in ultimate. He basically 'killed' Scott so he could sleep with Jean.

He was not a good guy in Ultimates.

==Aelryinth


Hmmm. The Colossus/Kitty situation was that as soon as she joined the team (after Phoenix died), Colossus protected the group by taking some machine gun fire in metal form. This got her infatuated with him, and she was thirteen at the time, I think. Then, when they are both infested with brood eggs by the brood queen out in space, and know they will die from that, Kitty (who has just turned 14) puts in a serious attempt at him, which gets as far as kissing and him tearing off his shirt. The argument is, why should we who are doomed to die worry what society thinks of us? I can't say she didn't have a point. Still, they were interrupted, of course. Not too soon after, once the brood situation is dealt with, Colossus dumps her because she's too young.


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thejeff wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
Quite honestly, you get that "OMG squicky" dynamic with every immortal character who dates someone who inevitably is younger than her/himself. So the best you can do is gloss over it, because you want those people to remain sexless for your comfort?

For me it gets a lot squickier when they're interested in people who are still pretty young by their own standards. Even if legal.

Much like the 40 year old dating the 19 year old is squicky. Legal, but squicky.

considering that my father is 20 years older than my mother and that issues of squickiness in this vein are very much a modern day taboo- one that I would even go so far as to say is a particularly virulent example of privilege- I hereby encourage Wolverine to have sex with as many willing people over the age of consent as he wishes.


Freehold DM wrote:
thejeff wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
Quite honestly, you get that "OMG squicky" dynamic with every immortal character who dates someone who inevitably is younger than her/himself. So the best you can do is gloss over it, because you want those people to remain sexless for your comfort?

For me it gets a lot squickier when they're interested in people who are still pretty young by their own standards. Even if legal.

Much like the 40 year old dating the 19 year old is squicky. Legal, but squicky.

considering that my father is 20 years older than my mother and that issues of squickiness in this vein are very much a modern day taboo- one that I would even go so far as to say is a particularly virulent example of privilege- I hereby encourage Wolverine to have sex with as many willing people over the age of consent as he wishes.

Not sure how old your mother was when they met, so it might not apply. As I said, age matters less as you get older.

And back in the day when no one thought anything about old men marrying young women, the girls usually weren't given a whole lot of choice in the matter. If you want privilege, I'd say the real privilege comes with actually being able to pick your partners.


Sissyl wrote:
Hmmm. The Colossus/Kitty situation was that as soon as she joined the team (after Phoenix died), Colossus protected the group by taking some machine gun fire in metal form. This got her infatuated with him, and she was thirteen at the time, I think. Then, when they are both infested with brood eggs by the brood queen out in space, and know they will die from that, Kitty (who has just turned 14) puts in a serious attempt at him, which gets as far as kissing and him tearing off his shirt. The argument is, why should we who are doomed to die worry what society thinks of us? I can't say she didn't have a point. Still, they were interrupted, of course. Not too soon after, once the brood situation is dealt with, Colossus dumps her because she's too young.

Later, after falling for another girl in Secret wars. Though that was probably just an excuse. They dated for awhile in between.

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