So I have an investigator (they are all the rage now apparently lol) who is about to hit level 5. I don't have his sheet but I think his stats are something like 13str, 12dex, 12con, 22int, 10wis, 10chr or close to it...
The game started out as mostly political but has become more combat oriented of late so I've been looking at ways to be more useful.
At first I looked at inspired blade but with my stats it amounts to weapon focus and a (slim) chance to parry.
Then I looked at Wizard thinking knowledge is power could be nice for some combat maneuver contribution... and then I got lost because I get to pick a wizard school.
The ones I'm looking at the most are:
Universalist (for some jedi lightsaber throwing action): It uses the weapon's abilities so my +1 inspired rapier
Wood: +1 dex and You throw a(n) (unenchanted) spear with 100 ft range that uses int for att and dmg
Illusion shadow:blinding darkness is ranged touch entangle that also provides concealment (take the BBEG out of the fight if they don't have darkvision)
and of course
Conjuration teleportation for 5 ft dimension door get out of jail free card.
THEN of course there are archtypes...
What do you guys think? Mainly the goal is to do something effective in combat.
Wizard is a little late to be getting into. People usually say 1 or 2 levels lost from casting isn't worth it, so 5 levels is right out. Your stats are just awful for combat. But if you get a good belt and a mutagen you could get your str high enough to be useful.
Im sorry, I mean I am level 4 investigator and was going to take a 1 level wizard dip to qualify for the knowledge is power discovery
Benefit(s) Your understanding of physical forces gives you power over them. You add your Intelligence modifier on combat maneuver checks and to your CMD. You also add your Intelligence modifier on Strength checks to break or lift objects.
That way in combat I can do some combat maneuvers.
I was looking at the other wizard stuff to see which would be the most useful. most (or all?) of the listed abilities have no save and are 3+int times per day abilities that I could play around with in addition.Edit I just looked at transmutation, It's give me a +1 gore attack as a swift action (for 1 round)... I don't know what to choose!
Don't dip. Instead, get a mutagen and focus on polymorph extracts to get extra attacks. Together with studied combat, that will provide an OK offensive basis.
Using a mutagen, alter self and studied combat, you'll end up with
three attacks at +9 doing 1d4+6 damage. Not a lot, but certainly a contribution.
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Your stats are poor for combat, and you'll never be very good at it. If you want to make the best of what you have, here's one way that's cheap and effective. This approach is all about fighting smarter with the tools you already have. Your 13 STR is just barely sufficient, although you'd like to increase it to 14.
Dipping a caster class, at this late date, won't work well. The primary optimization rule for all full caster classes is never give up a caster level. You've already given up 4.
i was going to investigator 4/ wizard1/investigatorx
Just a 1 level dip for alternatives in combat. my att and dmg will never be good but with a dip my cmb would be using int and str. i was thinking that with long arm that could be decent enough to contribute to combat and got side tracked thinking about the extra options for taking that 1 level dip. I've never made a melee character before so...
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No, dipping wizard is bad. Bad bad bad. You have alternatives for combat. They're called infusions, talents, and studied combat.
What are your talents?
Infusions + studied combat + studied strike should help be viable despite low combat stats.
get an inspired weapon if you can. At level 9 add combat inspiration.
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With your stats I would focus on supporting the group.
Combat can happen so id still take fast study but being able to pass out drinkable buffs is amazing. Alot of them happen to be self only so giving a fighter undead anatomy or any polymorph buff is just amazing. Alchemical allocation can let the group spend cash on high CL potions like good hope, greater magic weapon, and magic vestment. And never actually waste them.
On top of buffing you are a skill master...focus on those as well.
Yeah YOUR combat sucks but you can make group members much better then they imagined thier characters.
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Korthis - Knowing more details about your character would help people give more specific advice. Race? Feat choices so far? Talents? Dipping for Int to CMB might make sense in some builds, but won't if he's small or otherwise has things working against him for performing maneuvers.
I'm with others in saying that a dip into Wizard to pick up CMB is most likely not a good idea. You'll get Int to CMB, but you'll lose a BAB making all of your other attacks less effective, you'll lose a hitpoint going from d8 to d6 (possibly 2, assuming you normally put favored class into HP). You'll lose Studied Combat progression. You'll slow down extract progression.
If you have to dip a less than full-BAB class, Magus might be a better option. You'd pick up Spell Combat and could utilize your Magus spell slots for either True Strike for a net +18 or Blade Lash for a net +8 (It's like half of a True Strike, plus a one round Long Arm in one spell, and the Trip attempt is free so you still get your normal attack at -2). I'm still not convinced a 3/4 BAB dip is a good idea.
Swashbuckler has been the goto dip that everyone recommends for Investigators, but since you aren't exactly Dex-based, it doesn't make as much sense.
For full-BAB dips, Bloodrager might make sense. You can Rage for an extra +4 to STR. On top of a Mutagen for another +4 STR (and, unfortunately, a -2 INT), that gets you to a 21 STR when you need it (25 if you utilize Bull Strength, 23 if you buy a Belt +2 instead). I'm not sure what the rules are on using extracts while raging, so that might be a problem. There is a feat now that allows a Bloodrager to cast spells from other classes while raging, but I don't know if that covers extracts.
But most likely, I'll end up recommending you stay with Investigator and fix your combat troubles with your extract choices, feat choice, and money for equipment. An extra 2nd level extract means additional access to Bull Strength, False Life, Alter Self, and Alchemical Allocation (which means access to Heroism early).
Magda - As the originator of one of the threads you referenced in your other post, I just want to point out here that I did find a way to reach a level in melee that I'm happy with, despite stats that many, including yourself, deemed unsuited for combat. Investigators have a lot of ways to buff themselves. With proper use of extracts, mutagen, studied combat, and equipment, I was able, without retraining or a dip into another class, to go from a +7 (1d4-1) with a mwk rapier to +13/+13/+13 (1d4+8/1d4+8/1d4+8) using Alter Self, or +16/+16/+16/+16/+16 (1d6+9/1d4+9/1d4+9/1d4+9/1d4+9) and a 32AC in one more level using Monstrous Physique. For a 7th and 8th level character (6th and 7th level Investigator with a non-combat oriented dip) those numbers are more than acceptable. They aren't top tier melee, but anyone making an Investigator shouldn't expect top tier melee. If the idea is to be able to contribute in a meaningful way, it's certainly possible, even with Korthis' stat array.
Longspear is a good suggestion, though it again depends on his build. Spending the 5gp to own one and have it with him is probably wise. But, it seems that he already owns a +1 Inspired Rapier, so he'd be sacrificing a lot more than 5gp if he makes the switch completely. The same issue would come up for going to Alter Self route. Rapier is, unfortunately, just not the best weapon for a STR build character, since it can't be two-handed. It also depends on his party mix. If he's in a group with other melee characters who rush into combat each round, he's going to be able to get far fewer AoOs than if he's in a group that lets him step out in front. And, when he does attack, he'll often be facing cover penalties. If he's a small race, then Enlarge Person won't even help him. Longarm would be a good combination with a Longspear, though, and he has shown interest in making use of that spell. He could use the Longspear to trip, despite it not having the trip property. With longarm, he could use similar reach tactics with his rapier as with a normal longspear and no longarm, at the cost of 1 1/2 STR, the brace quality, and 1 average point of base damage, but with the rapier's crit range.
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Ferious Thune obviously knows what he's talking about. He asked pretty much the same question as the OP, and obviously found a way to make it work. I suggest anyone in a similar same position listen to his advice. I Faved his comment.
I'm not saying I have the answer for the OP. I'm actually saying without more information, I don't have the answer for the OP. It should be a question of what he wants to do in combat, and whether or not there's a way for him to do it effectively. Offering alternatives is good to let him see options, but saying forget trying to do what you want to do and do this instead doesn't help.
I'm happy with a natural attack/alter self build, and with the help of people in the thread I started, I found a way to make that work for me. Other suggestions were made, some of which were likely mechanically better or financially cheaper, but they didn't lead to a character I thought I'd have fun playing. The Investigator is still a relatively new class. Like most everyone else, I'm still trying to figure out what it can and can't do well.
My advice is not do X. My advice is pick something that you think you'd enjoy being able to do in combat, then look at all the options that make you better at that thing. If you can get to a point you're happy with, go for it. If not, see if there's something else you'd rather do and where that leads you.
elf, feats were skill focus intimidate, antagonize
at work and on my phone so can't go in depth but it was a social game and now there's allot more combat. i don't need to pwn noobs, just be better. i can't rely on others to do damage because we are all built to be social
edit# talent is underworld inspiration. from level 3, we see turning 5 now
Do you have the Infused Mutagen discovery? It might sound weird, but you could probably shoot for the Master Chymist prestige if you wanted. It gets just straight up bonuses to melee damage every few levels.
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elf, feats were skill focus intimidate, antagonize
at work and on my phone so can't go in depth but it was a social game and now there's allot more combat. i don't need to pwn noobs, just be better. i can't rely on others to do damage because we are all built to be social
edit# talent is underworld inspiration. from level 3, we see turning 5 now
In that case, as Magda suggested, a longspear could make a lot of sense, because you already have what a lot of reach builds are missing... something to make people attack you and provoke. Antagonize means when you need to, you can (mostly) force someone to provoke. There are ways for the GM to get around that (having them use a ranged weapon or a spell), but those options are there if you don't antagonize as well. Is that something that sounds like a strategy you'd like to try? You could do something similar with your rapier and longarm, or you could use longarm with the longspear for a 15-20 foot reach. In either situation, you could build for damage or for tripping.
It's helpful, too, since you're in a campaign, to coordinate with the other party members. Are they similarly in the process of adjusting to more of a melee/combat focus? If you built for control/trip, could you convince someone else build to do more damage? That way you could set them up for AoOs, too.