Just a quick question,
I understand the social issues in lore, along with reasoning against something like a dwarf breedin with an Orc,
But elves and orcs are both compatible with men,
Half orcs, half drow, and half elves are both fairly common races and are sometimes stuck in the same social issues in certain communities.
The question I have is somewhere along the line of "could a half-Orc breed with a half-elf" by raw? And if so what would they produce?
The same question applies to half-ogres and half-drow
Lore wise this would actually make some semblance of sense with what the drow do with fleshcrafting
My theory is that it should in concept work based on the mixed blood racial traits and the known rule that humans can crossbreed.
Facts supporting my idea also include half drow being capable of taking racial heritage(Orc) or simply the existence of the Orc bloodline for sorcerers as a non race-exclusive option, though I've been told it can't happen, and nobody has shown me the rules nor has google helped with my attempts(possibly just because I searched incorrectly)
Other races that have been seen mixed
Ogre/human
Ogre/Orc
Orc/goblin
Dragon/everything
TL:DR
are there any rules based around actual cross breeding in race and the restrictions of such, or is it just common expectation that only humans can cross
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
There are no rules. That is a good thing. We don't need rules for this. Please.
The closest we get is the Advanced Race Guides rules for creating custom races. Give 10 race points and try to create what you want and run it by your GM.
btw, Sorcerer bloodlines don't necessarily mean you have genetic material from that source or are some way descended from the bloodline source, but that that source has powerfully interacted with your family history in some way.
As far as rules go they are silent. I would say though that if you were to cross a half-orc with a half-elf, the most likely mechanical result would either be human or one of the two half races being dominant. Clearly you can make up a new 'race' if you wish. Including a racial heritage feat would also be viable.
Bastards of Golarion specifies that gnomes, halflings, and dwarves are not capable of interbreeding with other races, other than to produce planetouched races. That's the only rule on interbreeding other than the existence of various half-X templates and races that I know of.
There's a PDF by Little Red Goblin Games called Halfbreeds and Hybrids that has rules for making your own half races. However, I (sadly) dont have a copy of it, so I cannot vouch for them, and it is third party. Far as I know, no official rules beyond what has been mentioned already.
TL:DR
are there any rules based around actual cross breeding in race and the restrictions of such, or is it just common expectation that only humans can cross
The rules don't say much about it, interbreeding is probably not something the designers wanted to touch too closely. I imagine a lot of things either wouldn't work at all or wouldn't work right (by which I mean not producing a viable progeny able to reproduce) - unless, of course, magic comes into play. If Shelyn decides to bless the couple with a child or the friendly neighborhood uber-wizard busts out that wish scroll, then race, genetics or even gender can fall on their backs and roll over.
|
There are a few instances of "no". Such as elf/orc or halflings, gnomes and dwarves with anything non-planetouched/skinwalker/dhampir. Any race that could come from any humanoid should be able to breed with any humanoid race. (planetouched, currently skinwalkers, planetouched and dhampirs. From the skinwalker and planetouched I'd go with any range of chance that they produce kids either that are planetouched or skinwalker, or not depending on how close to the source these little critters are. As for Dhampirs I think it sates that only the first generation is dhampir anything else is very likely to be a undead blooded sorcerer of the non-dhampir parent race.
So other than planetouched, skinwalker or dhampir (or the core cases) or dragons ability to breed with anything that exists. (probably mostly bronzes and brasses...) the answer is likely "not without wish or a divine intervention"
Hmm, so lets say for instance that the orc-drow comes from drow fleshcrafting and arcane magical breeding programs.
It's known the drow like to mess with genetics...
What would we see, and how would it fight?
Smell fear+darkness? Nightmare weaver type thing?
blinding you, intimidating you and then tracking you by your actual fear to murder you.
Sounds pretty dark. Drow have been known to take Orcs as subservient soldiers
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The question I have is somewhere along the line of "could a half-Orc breed with a half-elf" by raw? And if so what would they produce?
Keep it simple.
Idea 1:
In the case of half-X plus half-Y, just pick mother or father, and use that line. So in your case, let's just pick mother, a half-orc mother and a half-elf father produces a half-orc.
Idea 2:
You could just use math/majority. Half-Orc is 50% Human/50% Orc. Half-elf is 50% human/50% elf. Their child would be 25% Orc/25% Elf/50% Human...so the result is close enough to human to be a human.
Either way, maybe come up with a "Multi-racial" Trait, which gives them a small bonus to disguise or languages or something like that, so you still pay homage to the lineage.
|
|
Hmm, so lets say for instance that the orc-drow comes from drow fleshcrafting and arcane magical breeding programs.
It's known the drow like to mess with genetics...
What would we see, and how would it fight?
Smell fear+darkness? Nightmare weaver type thing?
blinding you, intimidating you and then tracking you by your actual fear to murder you.
Sounds pretty dark. Drow have been known to take Orcs as subservient soldiers
Fleshwarped drow become Orcini they're like driders, but orc/centepede instead of drow/spider
Fleshwarped drow become Orcini they're like driders, but orc/centepede instead of drow/spiderHmm, so lets say for instance that the orc-drow comes from drow fleshcrafting and arcane magical breeding programs.
It's known the drow like to mess with genetics...
What would we see, and how would it fight?
Smell fear+darkness? Nightmare weaver type thing?
blinding you, intimidating you and then tracking you by your actual fear to murder you.
Sounds pretty dark. Drow have been known to take Orcs as subservient soldiers
Well it's for a campaign I'm running, I just would like to see some rules and methods that could be used for this result.
Any spells,rituals, magic items or creatures that could attain this to anyone's knowledge?
I try to keep things within the confines of no house rules territory
everybody love everybody
The question I have is somewhere along the line of "could a half-Orc breed with a half-elf" by raw? And if so what would they produce?
Keep it simple.
Idea 1:
In the case of half-X plus half-Y, just pick mother or father, and use that line. So in your case, let's just pick mother, a half-orc mother and a half-elf father produces a half-orc.Idea 2:
You could just use math/majority. Half-Orc is 50% Human/50% Orc. Half-elf is 50% human/50% elf. Their child would be 25% Orc/25% Elf/50% Human...so the result is close enough to human to be a human.Either way, maybe come up with a "Multi-racial" Trait, which gives them a small bonus to disguise or languages or something like that, so you still pay homage to the lineage.
There is a Racial Heritage feat for humans, allowing one to count as an additional humanoid race. You can probably tag this on to the character (selecting either human, half-orc, or half-elf for base abilities then use the feat to fill in the blanks for heritage).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
i know that the 3.5 dark sun setting had the Mul (half-dwarves), which was neat.
also, i know one of the devs went on a big talky thing on why there arent more half-races (particularly among the core races), his answer was effectively "tolkein".
i know that the 3.5 dark sun setting had the Mul (half-dwarves), which was neat.
also, i know one of the devs went on a big talky thing on why there arent more half-races (particularly among the core races), his answer was effectively "tolkein".
Well it does effectively go on to say that they exist in theory
I wonder if anyone would be interested in creating a "half-race" template based on the maternal and paternal halves of a race and which race raises them and the gender of the offspring
Also assuming that the standard +2/+2/-2 balances out when it's mixed
|
I never liked Half-Elves and Half-Orcs, for just this reason. If I were to design my own campaign world, I'd be inclined to say that Half-Elves simply don't exist, and "Half-Orcs" exist as a misnomer, similar to "Halflings," of a race that appears to Orcs and Humans to be hybrids of themselves with the other, but are in truth an entirely distinct race whose proper name just doesn't show up in the Common tongue much (and that's assuming I'd allow Half-Orcs in at all - maybe I'd just make something different to fill the role of "the strong and stupid PC race" - World of Warcraft left me pretty Orc'd-out).
|
Well, the thing I'm doing is taking a note from the Dragon Age book. The kids from a half-race are the other race (half-orc/orc parents result in an orc child, and half-orc/human results in a human child) The humans are pretty much the only compatible race, just for simplicity's sake, though.
I really, really like the racial heritage idea, though.
Yeah, I do allow races other than elf and orc to breed with humans in my games, but invariably the resulting child is human with the feat Racial Heritage. Also, there is probably some planetouched influence in your past too, to make it possible... or magic. It's not generally going to happen unless the player wants it to for concept (like I have an aasimar scion of humanity with racial heritage halfling. Her story is that her father was human and her mother was a halfling which is why she's so short (she's not small sized, but she's 5',) the blessing of Black Butterfly upon her mother allowed it to happen) But in the rare case that you had a 100% pure human and a 100% pure halfling, then no they couldn't interbreed but I generally assume that nobody is THAT pure and allow for any parental backstory, as long as you take the feats or such to do it.
Yea, homebrew it. Of course, one can do anything for their campaign.
I do believe that it would not be unreasonable for there to be a magical way of cross-breeding. The Kaer Maga book does say that the Halfling community there is looking for an affordable way for them to magically produce children with their human partners. In that case, having the offspring be a reflavored half-elf would not be out of line. Say a +2 floating bonus to an attribute and +1 to luck to take into account halfling luck.
The 'Quarterling' would pretty much be a Kaer Maga phenomena with only a handful of members since getting a viable population created would take well over a century of dedicated procreation.
Spoony made a video about the 3rd edition 3pp supplement "Book of Erotic Fantasy"
That book has a chart.
I don't think I can link it here, because of language.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I asked James Jacobs about this exact question.
He says the child of a half-elf and a half-orc is either a half-elf, or a half-orc. Elves and orcs can't directly breed, the human blood is required to make them "miscible".
I think people started asking him a whole bunch of cross-breeding questions soon after in that thread.
As someone pointed out in a different thread, mongrelmen can breed with ANYONE, so that explains the Racial Heritage feat, even for "immiscible" species like dwarves and gnomes.
The question I have is somewhere along the line of "could a half-Orc breed with a half-elf" by raw? And if so what would they produce?
Idea 2:
You could just use math/majority. Half-Orc is 50% Human/50% Orc. Half-elf is 50% human/50% elf. Their child would be 25% Orc/25% Elf/50% Human...so the result is close enough to human to be a human.Either way, maybe come up with a "Multi-racial" Trait, which gives them a small bonus to disguise or languages or something like that, so you still pay homage to the lineage.
This is exactly what I was going to suggest. There's also nothing that stops a character from *claiming* they are what they are, but you need to decide at what point a bloodline stops giving you anything. What would only 25% elf viably give that makes it worth doing? Same with Orc. At what point do the genetics get distilled down to nothing?
To me it seems like only Humans and shapeshifters can breed with nearly everything. It's almost a uniquely Human trait, and one thats just going to be strengthened with every other crossbreed. The Human is just going to keep coming thru generation after generation, until all that is left is a Human with high cheekbones or a Jay Leno chin.
|
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/amalgam-creatur e-cr-special
Amalgam template. It allows you to combine one monster and another. In the Pathfinder universe, Lamashtu is the Goddess of monsters and their fertility. She's the one that would allow or disallow an ogre and a minotaur to breed viable off-sprong. If the end-result is ugly and monstrous, she'll probably allow it.
As for theory; genetics is not always so simple as saying that because two races can breed with a third race, automatically, they can also breed with each other.
Analogy: For hunting, gamebirds have been hybridized for a long time; turkey and fowl can breed, fowl and chickens can breed, but turkey and chickens have been conclusively shown not to be able to breed. Now, replace 'Turkey' with orc, 'Chicken' with elf and 'Fowl' with human and you have the scenario of orc-elf hybrids. They are mutually exclusive.
The book of erotic fantasy provides a good guideline as to which creatures can interbreed. Beyond that, look at the ecology and the background of the creatures involved. Gnomes and dwarves have been stated to not be able to interbreed with anyone. Lamashtu and Baphomet are patron deities to monstrous creatures such a minotaurs and ogres and they encourage incest, interbreeding and the like, so likely, minotaur-ogre hybrids are possible.
This will solve most of your problems. Happy gaming.
In Dragonlance, Dwarves and Gnomes can interbreed but they produce Gully Dwarves and so it is punished with extreme prejudice if that happens.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What do you mean there's no rules for this??
You need to buy the Advanced Genetics Guide, figure out the number of chromosomes in each race to see if it is viable (in-game this can be provided by a map genome spell or forgone altogether with a miracle or carefully worded wish spell), determine which parent will provide the dominant/recessive alleles (1d20 + the parent's Constitution modifier to determine dominance).
There is a Racial Heritage feat for humans, allowing one to count as an additional humanoid race. You can probably tag this on to the character (selecting either human, half-orc, or half-elf for base abilities then use the feat to fill in the blanks for heritage).
Oh right. I forgot about that one. I didn't have a book to check that out.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I like playing with cross-breeds as a piece of world-building. For example, in my current campaign gnomes are not an independent race, but rather a subset of halflings possessing minor magical abilities attributed to an ancestor receiving a divine blessing from the goddess of magic. Halflings and gnomes thus intermix freely in most regions. So far I haven't bothered with mechanical hybrids since halflings/gnomes haven't been significant in the campaign. Plus, many of the distinguishing traits are slightly different talents that could also result from variation within a race (eg +2 craft vs +2 acrobatics, +2 Dex vs +2 Con). I might give it another look now, though, especially since I've never been keen on the gnomes' defensive training and hatred and could use an excuse to shuffle them out of the "standard" set of traits.
You need to buy the Advanced Genetics Guide, figure out the number of chromosomes in each race to see if it is viable (in-game this can be provided by a map genome spell or forgone altogether with a miracle or carefully worded wish spell), determine which parent will provide the dominant/recessive alleles (1d20 + the parent's Constitution modifier to determine dominance).
That's so not how it works, and yet it sounds so plausible.
In a Sci-fi setting I could totally see getting an Advanced Genetics Guide instead of the Advanced Race Guide.