Namely, does anyone have some? Considering a Brawler purely for fun. Anything I really need to know, best ways to play if anyone knows them, that sorta thing.
Alright, what are some good feats to keep in mind?
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Why thank you suspiciously helpful squid person! :D
Seriously thank you :D
Don't take the more situational Combat Maneuver feats like grapple or disarm as permanent feats. Only pick them up with Martial Flexibility; that way you have them available against the humanoid opponents they really shine against.
Of course, you could also go Mutagenic Mauler. It trades out martial flexibility in return for the alchemist's Mutagen. So +4 to a score and +2 natural armor (later, it gets to +6/+4 with a discovery).
It also gets additional scaling bonuses of +2-4 to damage to each melee hit (which works great with brawler's flurry).
Overall, it is nice if you are looking for something simpler. Decent enough trade of bonuses for a flexible mechanic you might not be able to take full advantage of.
Have you checked out the handy guide and discussion thread? It includes the link previously served up by the squid, along with plenty more commentary.
One of my players is a android brawler with a high dex. I know he has boar style, as well as slashing grace, and prolly weapon focus unarmed strike. So, when he is using Boar style, his unarmed damage goes up nicely, and he tends to do the most dpr of the party, though he doesn't use the flexibility all to well. There was a few occasions where dodge, combat expertise, or other defensive feats would have been much better than power attack, but *shrugs* he hasn't died yet (though that may be because he is taking all the good loot that he can get his artificial hands on).
I was actually looking at Pummeling style. Both because I love the idea of one massive punch, and because of the uber crit potential to it. Also for overcoming DR.
And maybe the occasional shouting of FALCON PUNCH!
I was actually looking at Pummeling style. Both because I love the idea of one massive punch, and because of the uber crit potential to it. Also for overcoming DR.
And maybe the occasional shouting of FALCON PUNCH!
Another advantage is that you can possibly skip the amulet of mighty fists.
The main advantage that the AoMF provides is that it gives an actual enhancement bonus- that means it can pierce through certain dr with the right bonus (+3- silver and cold iron; +4 adamantine; +5 alignment). With pummeling style turning DR/20 into DR/3 (plus all the other brawler stuff that gets past DR, like picking an alignment or the steelbreaker's exploit weakness), you can go for enhancement methods that do not actually affect DR.
As such, you can use greater magic fang or greater magic weapon in order to get your enhancement bonus from a hours/level buff. How you go about this is up to you (my favorite is bribing the cleric or druid with pearls of power). With your neckslot open, you can go for an amulet of natural armor, and get AC from light armor (or mithraled medium), amulet, and your class' AC bonus. So you can be well off.
On a side note- do not let the complete superiority of pummeling style turn you off of other styles. A quick dip into master of many styles monk would allow you to mix styles together, giving you more options (I like the idea of pummeling/snake, since it lets you stab through a guy with your falcon punch; boar can do the same thing though, and give the option of ripping a guy's head off; the Hamatulatsu feat is another option for piercing that has the advantage of not being a style, and all its critical stuff is actually relevant to pummeling style)
I don't think it would be especially effective, but was also considering a dip into Rogue, to pick up Minor and then Major arcane talent. Because a pummeling enlarged Brawler sneak attack bunch to the face is very amusing.
How far into MoMS would be appropriate? And how would that affect the Brawlers flurry?
Well, 1-2 levels is usually all people take, since it lets them pick 2 style feats without prerequisites (other than the first feat in the chain).
It also gives you the ability to mix 2 styles (which is the most you usually combine at once anyway, since each needs to be put up with a separate swift action if you aren't a high level MoMS)
The only affect on MoMS has on flurry is that it delays your brawler levels. Not too bad if you we are talking 1-2 levels though.
Aren't unarmed attacks light ? I"m not sure they can take slashing grace due to that (Boar does change the damage type to valid but the light weapon status is still a problem in theory. baring gm
Yes slashing grace is not gonna help with unarmed strikes. But lots of folks let slashing grace work with ligth weapons and then it is fine.
Last couple questions for now;
First, does it also delay the progression for Unarmed Strength? Or do they stack up? Or is there a feat to get around it?
And second; I would never attempt to actually argue this, but it says Elemental Fist can be used by monks once per day per class level, and an additional time per day for all other class levels....so because a Brawler counts as a monk and a fighter, at level 20 could he do it 25 times?! 20 for the monk and 5 for the fighter? lol.
Seriously would not try to pull such shenanigans.
I don't think it would be especially effective, but was also considering a dip into Rogue, to pick up Minor and then Major arcane talent. Because a pummeling enlarged Brawler sneak attack bunch to the face is very amusing.
That seems a very roundabout way to get what a 750 gp wand will give you.
Last couple questions for now;
First, does it also delay the progression for Unarmed Strength? Or do they stack up? Or is there a feat to get around it?
And second; I would never attempt to actually argue this, but it says Elemental Fist can be used by monks once per day per class level, and an additional time per day for all other class levels....so because a Brawler counts as a monk and a fighter, at level 20 could he do it 25 times?! 20 for the monk and 5 for the fighter? lol.
Seriously would not try to pull such shenanigans.
No stacking
And only 20 times pr Day.
I'd just like to mention that I think exemplar>>>>base brawler basically any time. You give up unarmed strike, but since you'll be dipping monk anyway that's no biggie. You give up maneuver mastery, but the bonuses to-hit affect your maneuvers, so you are basically in the same spot. You give up unarmed strike damage, but again, the damage bonuses more or less make up for that as well. And you are doing that for your entire team to boot. It's real good imo.
You are not selling it well.
You forgot to mention that it gives bardic performance, which gives everybody on your team a variety of bonuses (most commonly the +attack and damage from inspire courage).
I will say it works better for a quarterstaff using brawler (it is a 2 handed weapon, so you can get 2 handed power attack, even during flurry with it)
I have a Brawler/Holy Tactician Paladin who can be a ton of fun on my side of the screen. Move action: learn a teamwork feat, swift action: pass out the teamwork feat to all your buddies, standard action: take advantage of that teamwork feat. Repeat up to 5 times a day.
The two big tricks to Brawler are
1) Know your feats. Make a short list of your favorites and have them ready to go. Slowing down the game while you check prerequisites and abilities is no fun for anyone.
2) Get as many of the core pre-req feats as you can as early as you can. Mostly, you're looking at Power Attack, Improved Unarmed Strike, and Combat Expertise to get most maneuvers. Dodge, Weapon Focus, and Combat Reflexes are in the second tier, depending on your feat choices. Once you have these, you can pick up a staggering number of feats going forward.
(BTW, this is my main issue with the Exemplar. If you don't pick up Improved Unarmed Strike from somewhere else, that archetype cuts off multiple large branches of the feat tree.)
OK Correct me if I am wrong here. Let's assume I am a human and my first two levels are Master of Many Style, and I have both Power Attack and Quick Draw.
At first level I can pick up Pummeling Style, and second level get Pummeling Charge. I could start a combat by charging in with a pummeling charge, then on my next turn draw my quarter staff, and combine my power attack with my flurry, using the two handed power attack damage as bonus gravy.
Or am I WAY off base?
OK Correct me if I am wrong here. Let's assume I am a human and my first two levels are Master of Many Style, and I have both Power Attack and Quick Draw.
At first level I can pick up Pummeling Style, and second level get Pummeling Charge. I could start a combat by charging in with a pummeling charge, then on my next turn draw my quarter staff, and combine my power attack with my flurry, using the two handed power attack damage as bonus gravy.
Or am I WAY off base?
You would need to be level 3 (since either you take the first 2 levels of MoMS, and you lack the BAB to take power attack at level 1, or you go brawler level 1, and then take the two levels of MoMS)...but yes, that is possible. Being a human actually gives you no benefit for this (I mean, you have another feat, which is always useful, but due to the level thing, you would always have room for 2 regular feats anyway)
I might also mention that there is a 2 handed close weapon that gets that ability that lets you use your unarmed damage (at your level-5) on it- the bayonet. But you can of course understand why that can be a bit silly, no?
EDIT- oh, and you would have to worry about the enhancement bonus on both your unarmed strikes and quarterstaff. But since I argued that you can just use spells to enhance instead for your punches... also, do you even need quick draw? Just hold the staff in one hand, and falcon punch with the other.
Ah, an excellent point good Sir.
Is two-handed damage(x1.5 str mod) /w flurry legal?
A monk applies his full Strength bonus to his damage rolls for all successful attacks made with flurry of blows, [u]whether the attacks are made with an off-hand or with a weapon wielded in both hands.[/u]
I assume 'full strength bonus' = x1 strength mod.
Ah I see.
I prefer half elves for most of these low will save martial classes. The +2 of dual minded combined with the elven sleep immunity and enchantment resistances make you much harder to remove from a fight.