Please help me get the most out of the Linguistics skill


Advice


I'm trying to build an NPC for a game I'm running. He's going to be a combination information source, logjam breaker and emergency extra party member.

I thought it would be interesting to have him (or her havent decided yet), be one the greatest linguists around. Someone so good with languages they seem almost supernatural.

So far I'm thinking either a Bard or Rogue with the Amateur Investigator feat or an Investigator.

To be honest I'd prefer if he didn't have any actual spellcasting abilities. Spell like or Supernatural abilities would be great if they worked off Linguistics or could be fluffed to seem like they do.

Some feats that I want to use that fit the theme Esoteric Linguistics and Orator. Are there any others that would work with this?

Any ideas on how I can create the worlds cunningest linguist?

thanks in advance


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There is a Aasimar alternate racial trait that gives you 2 languages for each point of linguistics.

I am not sure this helps, but I hope it does. :)

Your character is extremely atypical of Pathfinder characters. Call him De Sassure of Chomsky.


Tengu also gets 2 languages per rank in linguistics.

Although Peri-blooded Aasimar's +Int+Cha combo probably fits this character best.


Hmm bonus Int is always good. But the Tengu +4 to Linguistics will make checks easier...

hmmm....

thanks guys. :)

Anyone else got any other ideas for this char?


Well keep in mind that the Aasimar's Int bonus along with the +2 to linguistics from the alt trait results in a +3 to linguistics, only losing out to the Tengu by 1.

Sovereign Court

Gnomes also have an alternate racial trait I believe to get linguistics stuff, plus spell-like abilities like comprehend languages etc.


Hmm Magical Linguist Gnome. Also a possibility. Although it doesn't give any bonuses to the skill.


I understand the theme you're going for, just please understand that the theme of your character is negated at level 1 by a cleric, wizard, bard or anyone with access to those spell list and the choice of Comprehend Languages.

It can be made permanent at a cost of 2,500 gold but requires access to permanency. It also comes packaged as a magical item at 5,200 gold price.

In short, while the concept it cool I would advise against going too hard into investing in it because it will leave you deficient elsewhere. Especially when your whole schtick is replaced by a 1st level spell...I think you will find this disappointing if you try to go to far with it.

I would recommend, build everything else about your character and then give them linguistics as a skill and invest a skill point each level. With that alone you'll be better than anyone you'd ever meet.

Bonus points, be a bard take Comprehend Languages as a spell known and coupled with your linguistics score you will know most languages and with a little knack you can really know them all.


Ellias Aubec wrote:
Gnomes also have an alternate racial trait I believe to get linguistics stuff, plus spell-like abilities like comprehend languages etc.

This just absolutely has to be it. The Gnome Linguist, master [or mistress] of every kind of nomenclature.

And Claxon is 100% right. Sad but true.


A bards spells could be based on oratory instead of music. Make sure your spells are language dependent and avoid utility spells. You may want to also look at the words of power spell system. Many stories have magic based on an elder language that is the basis of all other languages.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Be a Maestro Sorcerer on top of your linguistic tricks. At ninth level, you get a permanent speak with everybody.

(My maestro sorceress is currently on 7th -- only 2 more levels to go!)

Hmm


Esoteric Linguistics can offer a bit more use out of the skill. You can also use the skill to forge documents, so there's probably some fun to be had there.


information source and extra party member... sounds like a bard!

maybe a rogue (for RP on the imormation source side, and a flanking buddy for the party melee'rs.)

As an NPC, you don't want the character to steal your players' thunder/spotlight, so a support bard would be great. buff up the party and watch them get excited about their characters performance.

you could also look at witch as a base class, and go de-buffing for the party.

Both of these can be played easily: without complicated builds, combos, equipment, ect.

gnome w/ linguist and eptymologist will cover languages.


Rogue is good idea with the rogue talent that grants up to 4 additional laguages if you have even 1 rank in Linguistics. Guileful Polyglot it's called.


Claxon wrote:
I understand the theme you're going for, just please understand that the theme of your character is negated at level 1 by a cleric, wizard, bard or anyone with access to those spell list and the choice of Comprehend Languages.

I disagree. Linguistics is more than simply being able to read languages, it is also the ability to speak, write, forge, and detect forgeries. In addition, comprehend languages does not allow you to read magical texts, while the Esoteric Linguistics feat does.

One thing to remember when creating this NPC is to decide what exactly this NPC can do and how it can benefit the party. In addition to simply translating texts, a very skilled linguist should be able to:

  • Read lips from a distance
  • Forge important documents for entry
  • Forge documents to deny entry to other people
  • Fake speaking a language to impress people
  • Specifically speak or teach a certain accent (Bonus to disguise or diplomacy, I'd say)
  • Develop a sign language that your party can use when attempting to be stealthy (A great idea when the spell Message isn't available)


  • Do not forget, that it will take time to build up your Linguistics skill, to learn those languages.

    By level 13: you could have put 13 skill points into Linguistics to learn 13 languages ( 23 if tengu )...

    Now a druid at 13th level get "A Thousand faces", the Alter Self ability at will... To go with that Linguistics ability.

    .......................

    Side note: Druid / Urban Druid : Gains the "A Tougsand Faces (SU)" abiliy at 6th level, Can Take Charm domain and Spontaneous Casting the charm domain spell list, and at 9th level becomes immune to all charm and compulsion effects on himself..

    Down side, is that the way the lock you into spontaneous casting on Urban Druid... the only domains that i thought were worth it were Charm, and maybe Protection... the rest of the domain option i thought were a waste.... ... ... 1 step forward, 2 step back.


    Should build a C3PO kinda charicter that would be fun.


    I appreciate all the advice everyone. :)

    As gossamar4 said, he's going to be an NPC so I don't want him too strong, just strong enough to be an asset in the right circumstances.

    And that's partly why I want to emphasise the Linguistics theme. As a PC it would be generally suboptimal but as an NPC that will only come into direct play once in a while, it should be fine.

    I am strongly leaning towards Bard, as many have advised.

    Although a Rogue who uses scrolls to cover the spellcasting also seems to fit the language and writing theme. And having scrolls rather than spells known gives me a bit more wriggle room in customising him to fit games where he'll show up.

    Again, thank you all for the help. :)


    Someone mentioned the Sleuth Investigator in another thread.

    That may be the way to go.

    Grand Lodge

    If you did choose to play it as a Tengu just remember they are auto proficient in all sword-like weapons or you can change that out and have a handful of exotic weapons too!

    For a backup emergency party member he could be a decent combatant and a skill-monkey super linguist and translator!


    Oh yeah, I'd forgotten the Tengus sword skills..

    Hmm a glossophile/bibliophile who hoards books and scrolls, who works as an information broker/translator for hire (in order to buy more books) and who will occasionally go with the party for a particular tome or bit of knowledge or new language...

    Relies on his skill with language, esoteric knowledge and scrolls to magically support the group. And can handle a sword when needed.

    NPC beginning to take shape...


    Actually, if I use the Sleuth he can use short swords and sword canes so Gnome is still a good choice there.


    A quick related question, when using Linguistics to Bluff (as per Orator feat), do any bonuses to Bluff rolls apply? From the Deceitful feat for example?


    Natan Linggod 327 wrote:
    A quick related question, when using Linguistics to Bluff (as per Orator feat), do any bonuses to Bluff rolls apply? From the Deceitful feat for example?

    I believe not, because you are replacing the bluff skill entirely with Linguistics. Otherwise, you could essentially "double-dip" by increasing both your bluff and linguistics skills to result in a ridiculously high skill check.


    Thought so. Thanks.


    As an extra note, if you like the scroll theme enough to run with it, there are a number of archetypes (one for rogues and one for wizards that I know of and could find, and one I remember that actually used rolled up scrolls as melee weapons that I can't seem to locate right now) that most people will never see or use. For the right scroll and language based npc, however, these could be extremely flavorful (they'd have to be, I don't see much mechanically viable about them).

    Grand Lodge

    Natan Linggod 327 wrote:
    Actually, if I use the Sleuth he can use short swords and sword canes so Gnome is still a good choice there.

    That's true too. The only reason I reinforced the "sword skill" is just because the fact that they can use Exotic Weapons in place of regular sword-like weapons just incase you wanted a different choice of weaponry that doesn't come from classes. Tengu do Medium sized damage so he would be a bit better than gnome for when it came time to get bloody. They are a bit squishier than gnomes so they can't take as much of a hit as those little fellas can. Personally I love tengu but gnomes are so much fun too.

    I was just picturing an eccentric and snarky lil linguistic scholar/swordsman tengu with an Australian accent (I don't know why but I always imagine the little crowfolk speaking with an outback accent).
    And HE LOVES SHINY THINGS! xD

    Anyways I am sure you will come up with something that fits the bill. Good luck and I had fun brainstorming with ya!


    Shiroi, the archetype that focuses on beating people up with paper might be the Scrollmaster, a wizard archetype that gives up arcane bond to treat scrolls as short swords or wooden shields with an enhancement bonus equal to half the level of the spell on the scroll. It looks awful for a normal game, but assuming you have infinite wealth or a way to repair damaged scrolls, it could be fun in a gestalt game. My magus would love a one-handed weapon with reach that doesn't require several feats to be effective.


    yeah Scrollmaster is one of the silliest archtypes paizo has come up with. I want to know what they were drinking when they thought that one up...


    For some reason I had thought it was a magus archetype and I just wasn't seeing it. (Probably because wizards are so badly not combat oriented that it makes no sense for them to even have the option)

    I really feel like that should be equal to the spell level, max 1/2 your CL, given how fragile they are and how quickly they become irrelevant, as a magus archetype replacing the ability to use arcana points to enchant weapons (and dropping your total arcana pool by some number to compensate as well). This would be a more useable scroll fighting archetype I think. I may have to houserule that in sometime...

    EDIT: Or, alternatively, have the spell on the scroll go off if it gains the broken condition or a set number of hits, so you hit things, hit things, hit things with an extra lightning bolt, get a new scroll and repeat.


    Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    Are there any feats, traits, or other abilities that add numerical bonuses to the Linguistics skill? I'm looking to max out my Orator feat as much as I can, and this seemed like a good place to ask, since your answers might help the OP as well.

    All I've got is Skill Focus. Is there a +2/+2 feat for Linguistics maybe?


    Claxon wrote:

    I understand the theme you're going for, just please understand that the theme of your character is negated at level 1 by a cleric, wizard, bard or anyone with access to those spell list and the choice of Comprehend Languages.

    It can be made permanent at a cost of 2,500 gold but requires access to permanency. It also comes packaged as a magical item at 5,200 gold price.

    In short, while the concept it cool I would advise against going too hard into investing in it because it will leave you deficient elsewhere. Especially when your whole schtick is replaced by a 1st level spell...I think you will find this disappointing if you try to go to far with it.

    I would recommend, build everything else about your character and then give them linguistics as a skill and invest a skill point each level. With that alone you'll be better than anyone you'd ever meet.

    Bonus points, be a bard take Comprehend Languages as a spell known and coupled with your linguistics score you will know most languages and with a little knack you can really know them all.

    Yes, but no. Comprehend Languages would let you read the words of a journal, but it would take Linquistics to "understand" it. I don't know how many times I've been told by the GM "You cast Comprehend Languages, and you can read the book, but it doesn't mean anything to you" after failing a Linguistics check. It also doesn't allow you to speak the language, so knowing how to command an ancient Azlanti golem doesn't help if you can't say "Don't kill me!" in Azlanti.

    Also Linguistics is used for codes and ciphers that Comprehend Languages can't crack.


    Yosvyn “The Librarian” Humbaelt
    N Male Gnome Investigator (Sleuth) 8

    Str 10
    Dex 14
    Con 12
    Wis 8
    Int 16
    Cha 16

    Racial abilities :
    Gift of Tongues +1 Bluff/Diplomacy; extra language per Linguistic rank.
    Magical Linguist +2 saves vs language based,glyph, symbol, writing spells; +1 DC to cast same; 1/day arcane mark, comprehend languages, message, read magic.
    Keen Senses + 2 Perception.
    Obsessive +2 Profession Scholar/Sage

    Traits:
    Unintentional Linguist

    Languages common, gnome, sylvan, draconic, elven, dwarven, giant, orc, goblin, halfling, terran, aklo, abyssal, celestial, diabolic, sphinx, ignan, aquan, auran, necril, tengu, cyclops.

    Class features:
    Inspiration 7.
    Luck 3.

    Investigator Talents: Applied Engineering; rogue talent(black market connections), Inspirational Expertise.

    Skills: 9/level
    Appraise 4
    Diplomacy 1
    Disable Device 3
    Escape Artist 4
    Heal 2
    Knowledge Arcana 4
    Knowledge Dungeoneering 4
    Knowledge Engineering 4
    Knowledge Geography 4
    Knowledge History 3
    Knowledge Local 3
    Knowledge Nature 3
    Knowledge Nobility 3
    Knowledge Planes 3
    Knowledge Religion 3
    Linguistics 8 (total +18)
    Perception 2
    Profession 5
    Stealth 5
    Use Magic Device 4

    Feats:
    Skill Focus(Linguistics)
    Orator
    Esoteric Linguistics
    Dilettante

    Wealth : 7800gp

    Appearance:
    Of average height and wiry build. He has large eyes and a relatively small mouth and nose for a gnome. Combined with a widows peaked hairline , this gives him a somewhat owlish appearance. Has slicked back, dark blue hair.

    Personality:
    Charming and friendly. Has a tendency to speak using overly long and complex sentences. Sometimes forgets to stick to one language while speaking.
    Easily distracted by interesting writing or conversation in an exotic language nearby.
    Loves languages and books. Has an impressive library covering a vast array of topics and stories. All in various languages. Has few, if any, in common.
    Deliberate or careless destruction of rare or ancient examples of writing drives him into a rage.
    Usually works as a general sage and translator, also as an information broker as he comes into contact with people of all sorts especially when tracking down an unusual or rare written work.

    In combat, he stays on the peripheral sniping with his crossbow if possible. If forced into melee he uses his sword cane. He has no compunctions about using poison on his weapons. He often shouts out any opponents weaknesses or vulnerabilities he’s discerned to allies.


    Saying you don't "understand" feels very cheap to me. You know what the individual words mean, but certain parts may not make sense like cultural phrases. But blantantly saying you don't understand it is false. You may not fully understand it, you may not understand enough for it to be useful but if the GM simply said "you don't understand it" I would probably get into a protacted argument about what it means to "understand" the written words.

    I feel uses beyond reading written things is limited anyways. Many things that can speak something you can't, can also understand common. And for those that can't Tongues will work to fix that.

    I'm not saying Linguistics is worthless, but most of it's value can be replaced by a few spells.

    If you go back to my original post my suggestion was to play a bard (who gets all these spells) and to put skill ranks into linguistics (as a bard he gets plenty). But not to spend feats on skill focus or other things because I just don't find the reward to be worth the cost.


    Ravingdork wrote:

    Are there any feats, traits, or other abilities that add numerical bonuses to the Linguistics skill? I'm looking to max out my Orator feat as much as I can, and this seemed like a good place to ask, since your answers might help the OP as well.

    All I've got is Skill Focus. Is there a +2/+2 feat for Linguistics maybe?

    There's no +2/+2 feat for it that I've found.

    Although I did find a couple of traits;

    Unintentional Linguist(social) gives you +1 to Linguistics and an extra language.

    Self taught scholar(magic) gives +1 Linguistics to decipher unfamiliar language.

    Linguistic Genius (race Dhampir) gives +1 Linguistics and one additional language.

    Operatic (race) gives +1 perform and +2 Linguistics with a specific language.

    Lettered (race halfling) gives +1 Linguistics to decipher writing and you never draw the wrong conclusion.

    Glib Barrister (race) +2 Linguistics to create forgeries.

    That's all I've found so far.

    Dark Archive

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    Natan Linggod 327 wrote:
    yeah Scrollmaster is one of the silliest archtypes paizo has come up with. I want to know what they were drinking when they thought that one up...

    it must have involved rolling papers ...like scrolls. :P

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