Magus Shenanigans

[N. Specter]

Related to my other post.

One of the other players is running a strength based Magus. We're all level 10, and it feels a little out of control, and not sure if we're just laggin behind or we're missing something.

For his full attack, when he has speed on his weapon, he uses his occult combat (He is running Sybil) So he hits twice for his base attack bonus, one for speed, and one more for his spirit strike ability (Works like Spell Strike) plus the damage from whatever touch attack his spirit is giving him on the last one.

Are we doing this right? And if anyone is familiar with Sybil how many spirits can he bind at once?

Hope for some feedback.

[boring7]

3rd-party classes like the Sibyl Magus tend to meet scorn and derision.

So let's see, Sibyl is to Occultist as magus is to wizard, occultist, of course a bunch of that 3pp class' abilities are on "Page not found" so I'm having to wing it.

Quote:

A sibyl can wield weapons and utilize occult powers at the same time. This ability functions as a magus's spell combat ability, except that it allows the sibyl to use a spirit's granted ability as an off-hand attack and it provides no benefits towards casting defensively.

So he still provokes, except maybe it's a supernatural ability so maybe he doesn't, this class is poorly written arglgl.

From what I gather, he DOES have a limit to the number of "spells" he gets, so your first problem is the same problem with Magus and Shocking grasp, namely the 15-minute day. He burns Arcane points and he burns "spells" and he throws down a supernova of damage, but then he's burned out and needs to go sleep for 24 hours.

First, he may be cheating. Not intentionally, but when you redline the system to make "Captain Awesome" damage-dealer you run the risk of making a mistake.

Second, and it's taking SEVERE EFFORT to not make a sex joke, don't let the game be one fight per day. That is both boring and silly, and I am pretty sure it's not what the rest of your party is built for.

[N. Specter]

We're also still learning some of the more basic rules. We have an overall pretty good grasp, but it's generally up to me for the fine print.

For example, how dependent the Magus is on Swift Actions...

[N. Specter]

I would like to mention though that I really dont think he is intentionally cheating, and I actually like the flair of the Sibyl and the spirits replacing the standard arcane magic. It's fun.

[Matt2VK]

If you have concerns, have him break down the Magus's full action turn step by step. Showing the action used for what ability and the pluses and minuses the Magus has to take.

This usually catches any problems and is a handy tool to show what you're actually doing.

[N. Specter]

Okee Dokee

Magi are weird.

[Kenji Elindir]

This character is my level 11 PFS Magus. Four attacks per round at level 10 is completely normal for a magus. Unless he can't cast haste because of whatever the 3pp did to the class he shouldn't be putting speed on his weapon, he should do keen and flat enhancement bonus. He has his primary attack, his iterative attack, the attack from haste, and the attack from spell combat + spellstrike if he uses a touch spell. He gets a -2 to all attacks from Spell Combat, but gets a +1 from Haste/Speed.

Second, if you play correctly and spend some resources on Pearl of Power (1st Level), the Magus has no '15 minute day' problem after level 5 or 6. At 10th level a magus has 5 first level spells, + 1 or 2 bonus spells from Int, + 3 or 4 pearls of power (3000 or 4000 gp total, no more than taking a +1 weapon to +2) + 8 - 12 Arcane Pool Points (some of which will be used to enchant the magus' weapon). This gives you at least 7 or intensifying shocking grasps minimum. You will also have a casting of vanish, enlarge person, shield, etc. Those can also be cheaply recharged with pearls or APP.

This is before we even consider 2nd, 3rd, and 4th level spells. 2nd level spells are primarily used for Bladed Dash (literally Magus pounce), Mirror Image, Glitterdust, and various utility spells, 3rd level for Haste, Fly, Vampiric Touch, and more utility, while 4th gives you Black Tentacles, Wall of Ice, and Dragon's Breath (for easily changable elemental damage).

All the spell related advice may be nullified by whatever changes the 3pp did to the class, but Magus is not a 15 min workday class.

[kestral287]

Matt2VK wrote:

If you have concerns, have him break down the Magus's full action turn step by step. Showing the action used for what ability and the pluses and minuses the Magus has to take.

This usually catches any problems and is a handy tool to show what you're actually doing.

This. There have been a few times where I got into the flow of things and the GM had to make me back up and explain it. All rules-legal on my end, but when you hit enough different ways to combine magic and martials it's important that player and GM are on the same page.

His attack sequence looks right though. Assuming he's level 8 so he has an iterative, it'll be BAB-2/BAB-2/BAB-7/BAB-2+touch attack.

The Sibyl itself... holy carp, that is a badly written archetype. And we don't really have the stuff to comment on its Spirits, as d20 is missing it.

[boring7]

Kenji Elindir wrote:

All the spell related advice may be nullified by whatever changes the 3pp did to the class, but Magus is not a 15 min workday class.

Eeeeh, depends on how your fights go, and how you define "15-minute workday." If you have 20 spell-combat spells per day, you have, effectively, 20 combat rounds of being totally awesome. I've had plenty of days where total combat (in rounds) was 30 or 40. Not to mention the question of whether you're pure combat or if you have some utility tricks you need to keep around because no one else has arcane spells. If your standard adventuring day includes numerous instances of burning a spell point for a 1-hour power then spending 2 hours walking to the next fight, you also end up spending a lot of buffs that way. And yes, I have had all of the above happen to me a lot, but campaigns vary pretty widely. We also never faced an endless horde of lightning-resistant enemies, which would be a real hassle for the most common Magus build of Shocking Grasp-based beatdowns.

But the point is that Magus, when built right, can bring the )(*&ing thunder and unleash the fury, but chances are he's giving up other things (endurance, utility magic, skills, buff spells, various other fun options) to be your damage dealer. That's his job, he's a gun and he's a really good gun. Chances are he isn't that tough, either, so if an enemy gets a lucky crit he may go down for the count.

It's still quite possible OP could use some build advice, it is annoying when you have one player who is powergamed to the max and everyone else is a base NPC build rogue or generic and poorly-optimized fighter. Best way to deal with that is post builds. You may STILL be outshined by the Magus because it's possible his spirit-blade and bound pact sorcery is broke as heck. I don't know because I don't have the books and the d20pfsrd didn't maintain the links as well as other sources.

But while we're on the subject of liking flavor, the Hexcrafter Magus and Bladebound magus capture some of the "spirit magic" paradigm.

Anyway, choosing to run with "he's just a well-built magus," what is everyone else in the gang playing? Maybe they need an upgrade.

[N. Specter]

"He is just a well-built magus" does seem to be the crux actually.

We also have a social witch, and a Swashbuckler. I don't normally do front line fighters is all, so I'm not used to the hilarious burst of the magus. Swashbuckler is fun though; running obscene dex with Dervish Dance. Dexterity tank, with a Mythral chain shirt and some other wacky fun for a somewhat high AC...though getting the feeling it is going to be outclassed in short order.

[Shae'ura-Drae]

Magus if built right can be very powerful. I don't use or allow my player to use 3pp stuff EVER even in non PFS games. Most of it is terribly written and offers to many ways to break the game easily. I have read quite a bit of 3pp stuff in the past and from my experience that was all I needed to see. That being said I don't know anything about Sibyl Magi and am not going to take the time to read up on it just because I have no interest in 3pp stuff.

As for the question on magus being swift action dependent...Yes they are pretty dependent on swift actions. I have played many magus in the past few years. Its a great class and does outclass some others BUT in the end it cannot outshine a full wizard, cleric, or even fighter for purposes of total damage imo. I may be wrong but I have had very well built magus builds that end up being outclassed by others, BUT they are very versatile and rather fun, even in the long run. They get lots of actions and are great damage dealers until the come across creatures with HIGH SR or amazing AC.

As for the Speed Weapon. Yes he can apply Speed to a weapon AS LONG AS the weapon is already at least a +1 enhancement which from my understanding does not have to be from the Magus's Arcane Pool. So if he is wielding a +1 scimitar he can use all of his +3 total Arcane Pool enhancement to add speed to it.

[kestral287]

Depending on how the Magus is built, it can literally coopt the Swashbuckler's best capabilities (besides full BAB at least), so outshining one of them isn't really surprising. The Witch depends on what she's designed to do in combat, but off the cuff a "social" Witch isn't something I'd expect to be a combat monstrosity so that's not overly surprising either.

A lot of this depends on just what the Sybil's options are, admittedly, but it leaves enough of the base Magus in play (including parts it really, really shouldn't) to at least state those points in the general sense.