I very recently switched out my gishy cook character for the drow cleric that I've had sitting on the bench for a while, as his concept seemed more interesting than just playing every anime protagonist trope to unintentionally ridiculous (and admittedly hilarious) levels. Of course, this has come with the proeblem that I have no experience with clerics whatsoever and figured I'd look here to see if anyone had any advice on how to do so efficiently.
CN drow scroll scholar cleric of Vhaeraun, 12th level
Ability scores: (rolled)
12 STR
17 DEX
16 CON
16 INT
19 WIS
17 CHA
Feats so far:
Lv 1: Selective channeling
Lv 3: Dodge
Lv 5: Mobility
Lv 7: Spring attack
Lv 9: Planar touchstone (catalogues of enlightenment)
Lv 11: Channel smite
Extra: Weapon finesse (granted because I took a drawback)
My general style is to have him flit in and out of close range, dealing some damage and unpleasant effects with debuffs. The catalogues of enlightenment got him the touch of chaos power from the chaos domain, and he uses a +1 conductive rapier for melee at the time being. Normal domains are travel and trickery.
I think my main concern right now is that I'm unsure what feats to take from here (although whip proficiency is admittedly growing tempting because of flavor), what buffing spells I should keep the most in mind, and hopefully how to reliably do at least double digit damage. I tried asking for advice on that last one during our last session only to have one of my... fellow players tell me "oh you wanna do damage? Play a fighter" despite me having told them that I'm not looking for stellar damage done, just enough to hold my own. The rest of the players are cool, but because of that one guy I don't really want to ask for advice where he sees it anymore.
Oh, and please don't suggest dual-wielding scimitars. I really don't want to go down that path.
Quicken Spell would be really useful. You could Quicken divine favor to get +3 to hit and damage without "wasting" a turn to cast it.
Do you channel positive energy? Quicken Channel or whatever it's called would let you heal and do something else in a pinch....even more healing!
What is the rest of your party? Did you want to get Combat Expertise and Whirlwind Attack?
I channel negative energy since my diety is of the evil variety.
Spoke a bit with my GM since I posted this and I think my lv 13 feat will be two-weapon fighting, picking up a shortsword and maybe a scorpion whip for flavor (DM gave me a tip about gloves that makes the wearer proficient with whatever weapon they're wielding).
Combat expertise doesn't really seem all that great to me and I'm unsure about whirlwind attack (especially with that prerequisite). I'll keep an eye on the enemies we face from here on out though and see if it could be worth it eventually.
Quicken is something I'll keep in mind though, if not as a feat then definitely as a rod. That's just too useful not to consider down the line.
EDIT: Rest of the party is two monks, a wizard, a good cleric and a witch.
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The Cleric is great for being the primary damage dealer on the team, but uh... You've gone pretty much the exact opposite way of how to do it. Your high stat should be strength, not wisdom, and Spring Attack is the trappiest trap that has ever trapped a poor sap.
If a total rebuild isn't possible (it doesn't sound like you've actually played this character yet?) then the best advice you'll get is for Quicken Divine Favor that Dan mentioned above. The trick for Clerics is to use buff spells to get far above the capacity of any fighter.
Arachnofiend, I never said that I wanted to be the primary damage dealer, only that I wanted to do enough damage to hold my own if necessary. Being the guy who wades into battle to take the frontline doesn't really mesh with the character concept I have.
Drow tend to have a strong sense of self-preservation, so going head to head with the pointy-slashy-whatevery bits of the opponent really isn't his first choice in any situation. His favored tactic is more along debuffing than pure HP damage. So when I wanted to up my damage a bit, I was only looking for ways to do damage that isn't pitiful, not to deliver the most omgwtfbbq multidigits of blows.
If this way doesn't work out for me I can probably retrain, our DM is cool like that. But I don't really want to change my character concept unless it becomes absolutely necessary.
... And then I realize that two-weapon fighting doesn't really work with spring attack.
Sorry, Arachnofiend, I think I'll take your advice and speak to my DM about how to possibly retrain at least spring attack and see if he has any tips on how to combine my wishes for an agility-based character and two-weapon fighting.
If you're more into debuffing, then you may want to look into the Bad Touch Cleric. The Chaos domain power is pretty sweet. The Protean subdomain is even better, so ask your GM if you can qualify for that (probably not since Proteans are CN not CE). If you can't, then the Entropy subdomain makes for a pretty decent substitute.
You'll want to pick up a reach weapon with the conductive property as well so you can deliver your touch attacks at a distance.
Yeah I'm... kinda already using a conductive weapon with the touch of chaos domain power, just the usual one though. It's in the first post.
I'll make sure to put it on the whip when I pick up one of those too though.
Given your stats you could just swap out your melee focused feats for archery ones and be a back-row caster/archer. Ranged clerics tend to be pretty solid for damage dealing, and it fits with letting your disposable minions/allies take the brunt of the melee. Clerics tend to be too feat starved to make 2-weapon fighting work, and their buffs tend to emphasise size & strength over dexterity. Archery is a decent compromise, as is the reach weapon (+/- combat reflexes) that Arachnofiend mentions.
NB - while whips are cool, they need a few feats invested before they actually become effective weapons. Just be aware that it's another sink for feats.
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She's already a 12th level Cleric. At that exalted high power level, especially with mediocre combat stats (low STR cripples ability to deal combat damage), there's little point in bothering with any weapon. Instead, she should focus on spell casting. Why attack with a weapon, when she can summon multiple monsters that will soak up damage, control the battlefield, and inflict far more damage? By all means use Touch of Chaos via the rapier, and similar powers, to conserve resources, but spells will be your main thing.
As a 12th level cleric her spell list is
4 x 0th, 5+1 x 1st, 5+1 x 2nd, 5+1 x 3rd, 4+1 x 4th, 3+1 x 5th, 2+1 x 6th
All told, she has 18 spells of 3rd level and higher. That's a huge asset! She should probably cast a spell for every important combat round. Now, the best way to learn how to play a high level cleric is to start with a low level cleric and play through to high level. Since that's not an option, do your best to plan a solid spell list. Here's a sample spell list.
Domain = Domain Spell of your choice
Open Spell = Open Spell Slot, and your ticket to prepare any spell on the Cleric list in 15 minutes.
Orisons: Your choice
1st: Domain, Shield of Faith (+4 AC) x 2, Liberating Command, Open Slot x 2
2nd: Domain, Weapon of Awe (stacks with everything allies have!), Grace, Open Slot x 3 (often needs to become Lesser Restoration to cure Ability damage)
3rd: Domain, Communal Resist Energy, Wind Wall (shut down enemy archery), Prayer, Open Slot x 2
4th: Domain, Freedom of Movement, Greater Magic Weapon, Blessing of Fervor, Open Slot
5th: Domain, Breath of Life, Summon Monster V, Open Slot
6th: Domain, Heal, Open Slot
Note how each spell level has at least one open slot. Your 6th level slot will often become a 2nd Heal, but might instead be Summon Monster VI (pouncing dire tigers!) or Harm. If going into danger make sure you prepare an Open Slot into Cure Serious Wounds or Cure Moderate Wounds, so you need not waste Breath of Life or Heal on a flesh wound.
Many Open Spell slots allow you to completely change your stance with a few minutes of rest. This is the big strength of the Cleric class. Did your main front rank fighter just disappear, leaving your group without enough meat shield? Change all your Open Spell Slots to Summon Monster spells and, voila, instant meat shield.
Spell trick: When you use a 3000 gp Rod of Extend Spell metamagic on your various 1 hour per level spells, such spells last 24 hours! 12 x 2 = 24. This is HUGE, because you can use YESTERDAY'S open spell slots to cast all-day spells good TODAY. For example, at Bedtime you prepare (from Open Slots) and cast TWO Magic Vestment spells, and someone's cheapo armor and cheapo shield are both +3 for the next 24 hours. You recover the spell today, but the one cast yesterday is still active. Do the same thing with Endure Elements and you can have it always active at no cost from 1st level. Greater Magic Weapon (GMW) works the same way, but you need a more powerful Metamagic Rod. Don't bother with GMW if your team is rich and loaded with +3 weapons, but it's great if your wealth level is limited.
I agree with Arachnofiend that the Dodge-Mobility-Spring Attack feat sequence is completely wasted on a primary caster cleric. A high level cleric wants feats, but not those ones. That feat sequence is a trap for Martials, not for primary casters. What's the point of a +1 Dodge bonus to AC when you can easily spell yourself a +8 AC bonus (1st level Shield of Faith & 2nd level Ironskin)? Why worry about taking AoOs when you have the Grace spell? Plus, if you're being attacked in melee combat by a serious foe then your front-rank fighters have already messed up badly. For example, your 11th level feat should almost certainly be Divine Interference. This protects your entire team from critical hits. You probably want the Quicken Spell Metamagic feat, although you'll probably use it less than would a battle cleric.
Channeling is pretty weak by 12th level. Channel Smite exists so low-CHA negative-energy battle clerics still have some use for Channel Energy. This character has no use for that feat. Quick Channel, on the other hand, lets you both Selective Channel and cast a Standard Action spell. With a Quickened spell and Quick Channel you can cast thrice per round: Standard Action spell, Quickened Spell as Swift, Quick Channel as Move. You're not a healer cleric, but you could still channel twice per round to heal your entire team of 12D6 = ~41 HP.
Alternately, you could free up enough feats to take the Summoning feat sequence. Only if you want to go that way, though. Summoning is very effective, but requires considerable record keeping.
Alright guys, thanks for your input. I've decided to scrap the spring attack line and pick up two-weapon fighting and some other more useful stuff. With divine interference planned to be my level 13 feat because... well, my character up til now has never been much of a team player, so it would be odd to have him show up with such a team-beneficial feat. My fellow players knows about this and are ok with it.
And Magda Luckbender, to answer your question on why I'm doing this the way I'm doing this... well, flavor really. I never liked summoning much, and from what I've gathered, clerics of Vhaeraun are supposed to keep that on the low-down. Besides, we already have a decent amount of party members and I'd hate to drag out combat unnecessarily by focusing on adding more combatants to the field. Occassionally, maybe, but I don't want it to be my focus.
My party really isn't very optimized either, they just wanna have fun; and lately I think I've been focusing too much on numbers and efficiency.
That's not to say that your advices have been in vain or anything. I scrapped that ineffective feat chain and replaced it with something hopefully a bit more effective. I'll definitely look into rods of quicken and extend spell (I can probably afford the latter right now, thinking about it), and that divine interference feat will be very nice when the time comes for it to make sense on my list.
So thanks for your input everyone, I think I'll be ok from here on out.
... as long as I don't offend the elven wasp witch anyway. Wish me luck!
I used to play a druid in 3.5, and I got a lot of use out of Improved Counterspell. I would basically trade out prepared flame strikes to counter my enemies' fireballs and lightning bolts and empowered magic missiles, etc. Especially since you're not really a healer cleric, that would be a way to negate damage from occurring to your allies instead of healing them after the fight.
An ounce of counterspelling beats a pound of curing. ;-)
And if you get Quicken Spell, you can use your swift action to cast a Quickened spell that would let you buff or attack. And if you have a favorite low level spell to cast Quickened or altered by other metamagic feats, that Magical Lineage trait (or whatever one lowers metamagic spell slot level by 1) for that preferred spell. Because Readying an Action to Counterspell is a full-round action.
