Boosting survivability for a low-level Kensai Magus

[Dud Muffin]

I am very excited to play a Kensai Magus as I think the flavor is cool and the abilities are pretty strong as well. I dig the idea of a wandering swordsman, devoted to perfecting the use of his blade. Basically, the conept rolling around my head is sort of a riff on Kenshi (the blind swordsman from Mortal Kombat for those who aren't familiar).

I envision him surrounded by enemies, parrying/counterstriking at will. It's pretty safe to assume this isn't the way it will work out in actual gameplay, but it's a neat thought.

So here's what I'm thinking at first Level:

Build:

Henrik, NG Human Magus (Kensai)

Strength 10
Dexterity 16/18 racial
Constitution 14
Intelligence 15
Wisdom 12
Charisma 7

FEATS]

• Level One - Weapon Finesse, Slashing Grace, Weapon Focus-Wakazashi (Kensai freebie)

TRAITS]

• Observant - (Grand Lodge faction trait)
• Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp)

I plan on running this character as the party scout, using spells like vanish early on and possibly invisibility later on to get close, scope things out, and hopefully set up some ambushes. He should usually get to act first with a decent perception and a crazy initiative, especially once he gets to add his Int to INIT checks.

He'll be a solid striker, but with a d6 weapon and only 3/4 BAB progression he won't be able to go toe to toe with some of the tougher enemies. Spellstriking will mitigate some of this, but not all.

I like the idea of giving him combat reflexes and then taking the step up -> following step -> step up and strike chain. He will end up with a pretty solid number of AoO's, so I think that makes sense.

What do you guys think? Does this sound like it will work? I know Magi aren't typically front-liners, but I think this could do well with the right build.

What are some ways to boost his AC at early levels? The dodge bonus from Canny Defense is nice, but that's only getting me to AC 17 at 4th level. I could dump STR to 7 and get that up to 18 with a boosted INT score...but I'm not sure if that's worth it. I know he'll always be a little squishy, but how can I mitigate this?

Also, is there any utility in dipping a level of Swashbuckler? I don't think it takes away from the flavor too much and I could retrain or altogether dump weapon finesse in favor of something else and go with a katana instead of the wakazashi.

Sorry for the long post and thanks for reading. Looking forward to all of your stellar advice.

[Gisher]

You know that slashing grace won't work with a wakazashi, right?

[Imbicatus]

To expand on Gisher's post, slashing grace will not work with a wakazashi because it is a light weapon. Slashing grace only works on one-handed weapons. Light is a distinct weapon category and will not work with slashing grace.

Since you are a kensai, you can use the very thematically similar aldori dueling sword instead. It is a one-handed slashing weapon that you can use slashing grace with.

If you prefer a 18-20 crit range, use a rapier with fencing grace.

[Matt2VK]

Grab the Katana as it gives you a D8 damage dice & access to Slashing Grace.

Swashbuckler dip can work but you will probably need to take the feat that gives you +2 panache. Doing this gives you 3 Panache points and you wouldn't even need to raise your CHA.

Between you're Crits and killing blows you shouldn't run out of Panache during your adventure day.

This does have the draw back of the Arcane Deeds that give you the modified Swashbuckler deeds. Going with the Arcane-Swashbuckler Deeds costs you your arcane pool points instead of Panache. Your Arcane pool points you have no way to refresh except 8 hours of rest while the panache you get a point back for every crit or killing blow.

If you do go with the Swashbuckler, you can wear Leather Armor made out of a exotic material and suffer a 0% casting penalty. This you can then enchant for defensive purposes or toss on other enchants. Spell Storing works extremely will here as a extra enchant.

The problem going with the level of Swashbuckler is you can't really get the Arcana that gives you the Swashbuckler Deed that adds you're level as precision damage and you're one level behind in your spell progression reducing the few spells you have to fewer.

[Imbicatus]

The katana still doesn't work without a Swashbuckler dip. Katana isn't finessable, so Slashing Grace will give you Dex to damage, but still use STR to hit.

[Artanthos]

With Fencing Grace published, rapier is the weapon of choice for the kensai. The 1 point damage gain from a katana or rhoka is just not worth any price.*

*Unless you are just going for the cool factor, in which case; go for it.

[Artanthos]

Imbicatus wrote:

The katana still doesn't work without a Swashbuckler dip. Katana isn't finessable, so Slashing Grace will give you Dex to damage, but still use STR to hit.

Swashbuckler can finesse any piercing weapon.

Slashing Grace allows weapons to count as piercing.

[Imbicatus]

Slashing damage is still better than piercing. Other than that, rapier is the best weapon for any dex based melee.

[Imbicatus]

Artanthos wrote:

Imbicatus wrote:

The katana still doesn't work without a Swashbuckler dip. Katana isn't finessable, so Slashing Grace will give you Dex to damage, but still use STR to hit.

Swashbuckler can finesse any piercing weapon.

Slashing Grace allows weapons to count as piercing.

Exactly. You have to dip Swashbuckler for it to work. You can use a rapier or aldori dueling sword without the dip.

[Dud Muffin]

Wow...I actually did NOT know that. Upon re-reading the feat, it seems like a bit of an overstrict interpretation of the RAW to say a light weapon wouldn't work. The whole, "all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares" argument seems to apply here.

That said, this character is for PFS play, so I don't want to leave any doubt as to the legality of my character.

So, of the two options available, which is better for this build? 1-level dip into SB for Katana+slashing grace? Or just stay straight Kensai and go for the rapier or dueling sword?

This is a Magus, and I plan to crit fish, so the 18-20 threat range is preferred.

Also, any other ideas for bumping AC?

Thoughts on the build in general?

[Artoo]

To answer your survivability question:

You can boost your HP:
* Toughness
* Favored Class bonus into HP
* False life (see comments about mage armor below)

You can boost your AC:
* Ring of Protection
* Amulet of Natural Armor
* Mage Armor isn't on your spell list but you could get potions or scrolls/wands and UMD them or have a party member use them on you.
** You could also pick up the spell blending arcana and get Mage Armor on your spell list.
* Shield spell.
* You can still wear armor, you just aren't proficient with it and don't ignore the arcane spell failure.
** Haramaki or Silken Ceremonial Armor have no armor check penalty or arcane spell failure
** Darkleaf Cloth Studded Leather has no armor check penalty and only 5% ASF
** Mithral Chain Shirt or Mithral Kikko has no armor check penalty and only 10% ASF
** And so on.

You could potentially offset the arcane spell failure with arcane armor training if you wanted to. Just remember it uses a swift action and so do many magus abilities.

[Rerednaw]

Defending Bone here is rather interesting flavor-wise.

Stacked with False Life that's a bit more capacity to absorb the hits you do take.

[Imbicatus]

Amateur Swashbuckler for Opportune Parry & Riposte should help.

[Dud Muffin]

I am definitely going to work toughness into the build, I think I was planning on 3rd level. All my Magus level-ups will definitely have me putting +1 HP into the pool as well.

Regarding, your AC suggestions, they are all solid. I'm more concerned about early game when these options (apart from potentially Mage Armor) won't be readily available. I like the Ceremonial Armor idea for a cheap +1 to AC, though I don't think he'll wear any other armor as ASF is not something I want to worry about.

A wand of mage armor would be awesome, but this character will seriously struggle with the UMD checks, so I'm not sure that's the best idea.

[Artanthos]

Buy a couple of potions and use PP to get a wand. Hand the wand to someone who can use it. Reserve the potions unless needed.

[Gisher]

Yeah, sorry my post was so abrupt. I got interrupted, and thought I would get back to finish sooner. If you want to get DEX to hit and damage without a dip, the only options are Slashing Grace with an Aldori dueling sword or whip, Fencing Grace with a rapier, or the classic Dervish Dance with a scimitar. At least that's all that I know of.

Edit: I see that I was late getting back again. :)

[Rerednaw]

Artanthos wrote:

Buy a couple of potions and use PP to get a wand. Hand the wand to someone who can use it. Reserve the potions unless needed.

^THIS. Also even if your UMD is in the basement...the spell lasts an hour and eventually you'll get that 20 (if you don't nat 1 first) :). PoP also work...if you can count on an arcane in your PFS group.

UMD is a magus class skill so +1(rank)+3(trained)-2(7 cha) is still a +2. So you need to roll a 18-20 before a 1.

[Imbicatus]

Rerednaw wrote:

Artanthos wrote:

Buy a couple of potions and use PP to get a wand. Hand the wand to someone who can use it. Reserve the potions unless needed.

^THIS. Also even if your UMD is in the basement...the spell lasts an hour and eventually you'll get that 20 (if you don't nat 1 first :). PoP also work...if you can count on an arcane in your PFS group.

20 is not an auto-success on skill checks. If you dumped cha and UMD isn't a class skill, it can be impossible to activate a wand.

[Some Other Guy]

Imbicatus wrote:

The katana still doesn't work without a Swashbuckler dip. Katana isn't finessable, so Slashing Grace will give you Dex to damage, but still use STR to hit.

An effortless lace fixes that.

[Gavmania]

Gisher wrote:

Yeah, sorry my post was so abrupt. I got interrupted, and thought I would get back to finish sooner. If you want to get DEX to hit and damage without a dip, the only options are Slashing Grace with an Aldori dueling sword or whip, Fencing Grace with a rapier, or the classic Dervish Dance with a scimitar. At least that's all that I know of.

Edit: I see that I was late getting back again. :)

or TWF with sawtooth sabre + slashing grace, but that's feat intensive and unsuitable for a Magus.

[Imbicatus]

Some Other Guy wrote:

Imbicatus wrote:

The katana still doesn't work without a Swashbuckler dip. Katana isn't finessable, so Slashing Grace will give you Dex to damage, but still use STR to hit.

An effortless lace fixes that.

True, but that is in a new book, and the lace is the one thing in it that isn't pfs legal.

It's an option for a home game though.

[Imbicatus]

Gavmania wrote:

Gisher wrote:

Yeah, sorry my post was so abrupt. I got interrupted, and thought I would get back to finish sooner. If you want to get DEX to hit and damage without a dip, the only options are Slashing Grace with an Aldori dueling sword or whip, Fencing Grace with a rapier, or the classic Dervish Dance with a scimitar. At least that's all that I know of.

Edit: I see that I was late getting back again. :)

or TWF with sawtooth sabre + slashing grace, but that's feat intensive and unsuitable for a Magus.

Sawtooth Sabers are still one-handed weapons, they are only treated as light for TWF penalties. So, no dice unless you are a swashbuckler or have the effortless lace.

[Dud Muffin]

Alright all, I appreciate the feedback.

I think I'll opt for the rapier for now and maybe dip SB later on to pick up the katana. I will only lose on Caster Level, so that doesn't seem like too bad a trade off for picking up parry/riposte and Swashbuckler's finesse.

I can retrain Weapon Finesse once it becomes unnecessary or maybe tough it out for a level.

What do you think of the Step Up and Strike chain? Any other feats seem really awesome for this type of build?

[Some Other Guy]

Dud Muffin wrote:

Alright all, I appreciate the feedback.

I think I'll opt for the rapier for now and maybe dip SB later on to pick up the katana. I will only lose on Caster Level, so that doesn't seem like too bad a trade off for picking up parry/riposte and Swashbuckler's finesse.

I can retrain Weapon Finesse once it becomes unnecessary or maybe tough it out for a level.

What do you think of the Step Up and Strike chain? Any other feats seem really awesome for this type of build?

But you can get parry/riposte from an arcana.

[Dud Muffin]

Some Other Guy wrote:

But you can get parry/riposte from an arcana.

Correct...but I cannot get Swashbuckler's finesse from an arcana to the best of my knowledge.

[Imbicatus]

As a magus, you really don't want to multiclass. You delay spells and class abilities for very little (+1 average damage from a katana) in return. Kensai only exacerbates this with reduced casting.

[kestral287]

Unless you really like the cool factor, the required dip makes the katana vastly inferior to the rapier or scimitar. You're losing spells per day (already behind for a Kensai), a caster level (read as: damage for Shocking Grasp), +1 damage per hit (assuming you take Precise Strike... which you probably should be), and delaying all of your class abilities. You mention liking the crazy number of AoOs... a number of them don't kick in until Kensai 7, which is suddenly Kensai 8, and is thus more than two-thirds of the way through his career. And for that you get, literally as the sum total of your useful gains, +1 damage per hit. There's no way not to count that as a net loss in capabilities.

You want a Haramaki or Silken Ceremonial Armor. ASF 0%. 1 AC for insanely cheap. Do it.

You want Flamboyant Arcana, but you can also consider taking Amateur Swashbuckler. It'll ease the burden on your arcane pool. Keep in mind that you are not as good at parrying as a Swashbuckler; you don't have the to-hit that they do.

Vanish, Shield, Mirror Images, Blur, etc. are your friends. Use them. Heavily.

Infernal Healing is on your spell list. Screw UMDing a wand, just buy a Wand of Infernal Healing and go with it.

[Dud Muffin]

kestral287 wrote:

Unless you really like the cool factor, the required dip makes the katana vastly inferior to the rapier or scimitar. You're losing spells per day (already behind for a Kensai), a caster level (read as: damage for Shocking Grasp), +1 damage per hit (assuming you take Precise Strike... which you probably should be), and delaying all of your class abilities. You mention liking the crazy number of AoOs... a number of them don't kick in until Kensai 7, which is suddenly Kensai 8, and is thus more than two-thirds of the way through his career. And for that you get, literally as the sum total of your useful gains, +1 damage per hit. There's no way not to count that as a net loss in capabilities.

You want a Haramaki or Silken Ceremonial Armor. ASF 0%. 1 AC for insanely cheap. Do it.

You want Flamboyant Arcana, but you can also consider taking Amateur Swashbuckler. It'll ease the burden on your arcane pool. Keep in mind that you are not as good at parrying as a Swashbuckler; you don't have the to-hit that they do.

Vanish, Shield, Mirror Images, Blur, etc. are your friends. Use them. Heavily.

Infernal Healing is on your spell list. Screw UMDing a wand, just buy a Wand of Infernal Healing and go with it.

Very sage advice.

I really didn't want to multiclass. I like everything you suggested. Flavor-wise, I really dislike the idea of using a rapier, but mechanics-wise it fits. Maybe I'll go for the dueling sword and deal with the smaller threat range.

[Imbicatus]

You could also use scimitar and wait for dervish dance at 3rd level for dex to damage. Katana, Dueling Sword, and Scimitar all one-handed slightly curved blades approximately three feet long.

It frees up weapon focus, and its more thematic with what you are going for.

[Dud Muffin]

Imbicatus wrote:

It frees up weapon focus, and its more thematic with what you are going for.

Well, weapon focus is a Kensai archtype freebie, so that's not really a concern.

Is arcane strike worth working into this build?

[Imbicatus]

Dud Muffin wrote:

Is arcane strike worth working into this build?

It eats a swift action, but it's still good, especially with riving strike.

[Matt2VK]

The nice thing about taking Swashbuckler is if you use Arcane Accuracy, combined with Parry & Riposte, you almost always get a free attack in on your target.

With the Swashbuckler dip (doing this almost requires grabbing the Extra Panache feat) you're using Panache which you should get back while crit fishing and death blows.

It's all about trade offs.

[FrodoOf9Fingers]

A few questions/suggestions:

How far do you plan to go? 10ish?

A swashbuckler dip isn't bad at all, but it isn't free. I call it an even tradeoff, and if flavor is what you want, it's awesome. The down side is as Imbicatus says, slower caster progression. However, IMO, if you were really worried about being a caster you wouldn't be a Kensai. The real issue is delaying AC and class features.

Arcane Strike is -decent-. There's better things that you can get. You already use lots of swift actions, such as enchanting your weapon and using arcane accuracy. Getting a familiar would give you more utility, especially if you put ranks into UMD and had an lykriaen azata improved familiar.

[Renegadeshepherd]

One tactic is to fight defensively and then use touch spells to make up for the difference in attack. I've even seen players go so far as to use combat expertise at mid levels for this as it remains viable and your defenses are even more improved through class features.

[Genuine]

As a general rule, I don't go with Arcane Strike unless I am also going with Bodyguard and Gloves of Arcane Striking.

Also, just as an aside, consider the Inspired Blade archetype instead of a vanilla Swashbuckler for a dip. It gives you free Weapon Focus (Rapier), which is worthless, as you get a free weapon focus in whatever in your first level of Kensei. More interestingly, you get to add your Int mod to your panache pool. Suddenly you can actually take advantage of those first level deeds on a regular basis while still dumping Cha.

Artoo, I know that you don't want to dip, and dipping a kensei is questionable, but lots of people like Swashbuckler dips, and I just wanted this out there. :D

[Taku Ooka Nin]

The NPCs I am building use Aldori Dueling Swords, which are similar to the Longsword in almost every way, save that they are also finesse weapons that are one handed.

So, use an Aldori Dueling Sword. 1d8 /19-20, finesse, one handed.
If you don't have the proficiency take either additional traits, use a trait or take a drawback to gain a trait to take Heirloom Weapon with the proficiency in the weapon being the choice.

Instantly done.
Have fun.

[kestral287]

Dud Muffin wrote:

Very sage advice.

I really didn't want to multiclass. I like everything you suggested. Flavor-wise, I really dislike the idea of using a rapier, but mechanics-wise it fits. Maybe I'll go for the dueling sword and deal with the smaller threat range.

I'd go for the scimitar then. It can make your first two levels a little rough since Dervish Dance isn't an option until level three, but it does free up a feat at first-level.

Dueling Sword is suboptimal, strictly speaking, but if you don't like the rapier and want dex to damage online at first it's your best option.

Dud Muffin wrote:

Imbicatus wrote:

It frees up weapon focus, and its more thematic with what you are going for.

Well, weapon focus is a Kensai archtype freebie, so that's not really a concern.

Is arcane strike worth working into this build?

Not really, no. The Magus has a lot of swift actions to throw around; adding one more isn't really helping them much. It's not terrible, but you're relatively unlikely to be using it against important targets so it's not exactly good either.

Matt2VK wrote:

The nice thing about taking Swashbuckler is if you use Arcane Accuracy, combined with Parry & Riposte, you almost always get a free attack in on your target.

With the Swashbuckler dip (doing this almost requires grabbing the Extra Panache feat) you're using Panache which you should get back while crit fishing and death blows.

It's all about trade offs.

Doesn't work. Arcane Accuracy lasts until the end of your turn, not the start of your next. Unless you're somehow managing to parry on your turn, then, no accuracy boost. The same is true of Accurate Strike.

[Genuine]

kestral287 wrote:

Doesn't work. Arcane Accuracy lasts until the end of your turn, not the start of your next. Unless you're somehow managing to parry on your turn, then, no accuracy boost. The same is true of Accurate Strike.

Still doesn't work with arcane accuracy or strike, but I like to use spell combat and parry to get another attack in my full attacks, when I don't have anything to do with my swift.

I cast my spell in spell combat, but don't defensively cast it. They take their AoO, I use my AoO to parry, then attack back. (Every Magus I've built can almost always beat the attack roll of most PFS melee enemies). Then I take the rest of my normal full attack routine.

It's a gamble, sure. It also only works if I'm only being threatened by a single enemy.