pathfinder monsters that aren't fun for their CR


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Wrath wrote:
Rock salt, bag of salt poured out on surface, bag of salt that breaks on impact, if surrounded by leaches then pour salt around you while you're in water, summon salt using presdidigitation, summon salt with a food cantrips, summon a saltwater water elemental.

Not sure any of those would work... But even if they did... You're still taking 1d3 Str and Con damage every round while you deal 1d6 damage.

The Exchange

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D6 per handful. How many handfuls of salt in a bag of salt? It's like dropping a fireball on them.

I believe flaming hands still works in water too, just as fireball does. It creates a steam effect instead of fire I believe, though may be mixing up some old 3.5 stuff there.

Also, what effect does natural armour have against damage from swarms? I believe natural armour negates many effects from swarms but need to check up. If so, potions of bark skin are your friend here.

I guess I'm saying a swarm of any type is dangerous to group with no defences against-them. Leach swarms have things that can affect them though, so I don't see them any more dangerous than other swarms.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ashiel wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Pretty much every aquatic creature can be freaking terrifying in their natural environment.
Amen. :P

The sheer terror of fighting a black dragon in water...

Liberty's Edge

Ashiel wrote:
Auren "Rin" Cloudstrider wrote:
shadows, stirges, leeches and the like require very specialized investments of resources few level appropriate parties are going to have to have the resources to afford in a game that disallows the purchase of partially charged wands or disallows the crafting of cheap low level consumables

I'm concerned about pointing this out but I feel like I must.

Potions of magic weapon at 50 gp. Potions of lesser restoration are 50 gp. Potions of delay poison are 50 gp. Most parties can afford a couple pre-2nd level. They're also commonly available in every community (from thorpe to metropolis).

This game is hard but it's not quite as hateful as it could be. :)

Unless I am your GM.

because you will be forced to craft them yourself, at eighty five percent the price.

Because I limit magic to important people, if all the NPCs ran about with wands and potions, then there would be TOO much magic.


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:(


Are giant leeches that bad? I mean yes they cause ability damage, but their attack bonus is really low.

Sovereign Court

snickersimba wrote:


Because I limit magic to important people, if all the NPCs ran about with wands and potions, then there would be TOO much magic.

The PCs aren't important?


John John wrote:

Are giant leeches that bad? I mean yes they cause ability damage, but their attack bonus is really low.

a low attack bonus is irrelevant when you are making touch attacks that don't allow a saving throw and actually get deadlier from applying the young template

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If paladins aren't making potions of lesser restoration then I hope they also aren't making oils of bless weapon. It makes no sense to declare that NPC paladins don't make magic consumables then turn around and make paladin exclusive spells available as consumables.
OTOH if the group decides to ban all spells exclusive to 4-casters that's their prerogative. I just think it's inconsistent to ban some paladin/ranger spells but not others. (Of all the PFS campaign rules, this is the one that makes the least sense to me)

Either way, while things like swarms can be nasty at low levels, that's a very good reason to invest in cheap ways to combat swarms. Personally I'm comfortable that the intention of splash weapons vs. swarms is to do full damage if they hit, so IMC you get to fight swarms with acid at 10gp a shot. That should get you to level 3 or so when better AoE damage is more available.

Sticky swarms are just nasty though - leaving the swarm is your basic defense and when that is denied you are in pain town.


Shadows are terrible hard. Not only because they sre hard to damage (there are ways to overcome that), bit because they DRAIN strength. At that level, that's a really longlasting penalty. Also, if they take down a char, it's close to a tpk, as you will have one extra shadow and one less group member


ryric wrote:
If paladins aren't making potions of lesser restoration then I hope they also aren't making oils of bless weapon. It makes no sense to declare that NPC paladins don't make magic consumables then turn around and make paladin exclusive spells available as consumables.

QFT


Auren "Rin" Cloudstrider wrote:
John John wrote:

Are giant leeches that bad? I mean yes they cause ability damage, but their attack bonus is really low.

a low attack bonus is irrelevant when you are making touch attacks that don't allow a saving throw and actually get deadlier from applying the young template

Weird I can't see where it says its a touch attack.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/leech.html

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Lesser Restoration is on multiple class lists. Bless weapon is not. I don't see why Paladins wouldn't sell at the market price. Just because they can make them cheap doesn't mean they have to sell them that way.

I'd think the paladins would focus on what they could make and others could not, instead of what everyone else could make, too.

Now, could you point out the legions of paladin alchemists churning this stuff out. :) I have to admit, I don't think I've ever see a paladin build with Craft Potion OR Craft Wand. Maybe the retired ones retrain it?

ONe thing I allowed for Paladins of my home campaigns is to take unsanctioned knowledge for Awaken as a 4th level spell for the preferred animal of their chosen deity. Retired paladins spend their time awakening horses and dogs and bulls and stuff dependent on their god, making more LG soldiers. Active paladins generally don't do this, as time has to be spent training the animals and whatnot.

But it doesn't mean Awaken scrolls sell as 4th level spells.

==Aelryinth


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Aelryinth wrote:
Lesser Restoration is on multiple class lists. Bless weapon is not. I don't see why Paladins wouldn't sell at the market price. Just because they can make them cheap doesn't mean they have to sell them that way.

So... Those holy bastions of good would overcharge for their work just because the customers have no choice but pay?

Truly the most paladinesque of behaviors!


Aelryinth wrote:

Lesser Restoration is on multiple class lists. Bless weapon is not. I don't see why Paladins wouldn't sell at the market price. Just because they can make them cheap doesn't mean they have to sell them that way.

If your are going into market price then bless weapon should be even mire expensive, as they are harder to find and lack of supply works in their favor. Every single maker of Bless Oil is also a maker of Lesser Restoration Potions, bit the oppositte isnt true . Also, high demand stuff (like potions of CLW ir Enlarge) should have higher price than potiins of [insert sucky lvl 1 spell here] so I think that's a weak excuse. PF magic marts dont follow market rules, they are socialist services with regulated price based on production costa, not Adam Smith's invisible hand.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Selling stuff is market neutral. If people are willing to pay for it, the paladin can turn and make a donation of the extra funds.

Being LG doesn't mean you can't make money, Lemmy.

==Aelryinth

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

gustavo iglesias wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

Lesser Restoration is on multiple class lists. Bless weapon is not. I don't see why Paladins wouldn't sell at the market price. Just because they can make them cheap doesn't mean they have to sell them that way.

If your are going into market price then bless weapon should be even mire expensive, as they are harder to find and lack of supply works in their favor. Every single maker of Bless Oil is also a maker of Lesser Restoration Potions, bit the oppositte isnt true . Also, high demand stuff (like potions of CLW ir Enlarge) should have higher price than potiins of [insert sucky lvl 1 spell here] so I think that's a weak excuse. PF magic marts dont follow market rules, they are socialist services with regulated price based on production costa, not Adam Smith's invisible hand.

and yet, you seem to think there's unlimited amounts of paladins selling lesser Restoration potions, and nobody else can sell them, which directly references infinite supply at price point X, which IS the invisible hand.

So, I find that counter argument pretty funny.

==Aelryinth


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Lemmy wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:
Lesser Restoration is on multiple class lists. Bless weapon is not. I don't see why Paladins wouldn't sell at the market price. Just because they can make them cheap doesn't mean they have to sell them that way.

So... Those holy bastions of good would overcharge for their work just because the customers have no choice but pay?

Truly the most paladinesque of behaviors!

For a spell that help people to recover from pain, suffering and disease, no less!

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

gustavo iglesias wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:
Lesser Restoration is on multiple class lists. Bless weapon is not. I don't see why Paladins wouldn't sell at the market price. Just because they can make them cheap doesn't mean they have to sell them that way.

So... Those holy bastions of good would overcharge for their work just because the customers have no choice but pay?

Truly the most paladinesque of behaviors!

For a spell that help people to recover from pain, suffering and disease, no less!

I know, LG clerics are horrible people, overcharging for those potions. They should give them away for less then the cost of making them, i.e. at paladin prices.

And I pretty much think we shouldn't go down the supply and demand road of comparing 'useful' spells on a market economy basis. I agree it's totally logical, but it is a game.

Basically, following RAW, you'd have to treat lesser restoration potions by Paladins as one item, and by other casters as another, and then see which one is available. There's probably going to be more casters making potions then paladins, and now you have two economies of the same thing at two price points.

at which point some enterprising guy will buy up all the stuff at the low price points and sell them at the higher price point. The price will go UP from the paladin price, not down to the paladin price.

So the cleric price is actually more reasonable. a given paladin with the feat can indeed make them cheaper, but for the market as a whole...it'll end up at what the majority of the potions are available as.

Kindly note this is a problem with having different spell lists, creating spell list leverage. It's one of the reasons why the summoner is overpowered, too, etc. Teleport wands? Anyone?

==Aelryinth

Sovereign Court

gustavo iglesias wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:
Lesser Restoration is on multiple class lists. Bless weapon is not. I don't see why Paladins wouldn't sell at the market price. Just because they can make them cheap doesn't mean they have to sell them that way.

So... Those holy bastions of good would overcharge for their work just because the customers have no choice but pay?

Truly the most paladinesque of behaviors!

For a spell that help people to recover from pain, suffering and disease, no less!

So - doctors are evil for charging money?


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Aelryinth wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

Lesser Restoration is on multiple class lists. Bless weapon is not. I don't see why Paladins wouldn't sell at the market price. Just because they can make them cheap doesn't mean they have to sell them that way.

If your are going into market price then bless weapon should be even mire expensive, as they are harder to find and lack of supply works in their favor. Every single maker of Bless Oil is also a maker of Lesser Restoration Potions, bit the oppositte isnt true . Also, high demand stuff (like potions of CLW ir Enlarge) should have higher price than potiins of [insert sucky lvl 1 spell here] so I think that's a weak excuse. PF magic marts dont follow market rules, they are socialist services with regulated price based on production costa, not Adam Smith's invisible hand.

and yet, you seem to think there's unlimited amounts of paladins selling lesser Restoration potions, and nobody else can sell them, which directly references infinite supply at price point X, which IS the invisible hand.

So, I find that counter argument pretty funny.

==Aelryinth

Weak strawman.

I haven't said that your should find paladin LRP available. "There aren't paladins with Brew Potion in this town" is a perfectly valid answer. Justo that it implies no Bless Weapon Oil as well. Alzó, an infinite supply of paladín potions isnt more dumb than an infinite suply of, say, druid potions or ranger scrolls. Yes, pathfibder rules to buy items are dumb. Regardless of class


gustavo iglesias wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:
Lesser Restoration is on multiple class lists. Bless weapon is not. I don't see why Paladins wouldn't sell at the market price. Just because they can make them cheap doesn't mean they have to sell them that way.

So... Those holy bastions of good would overcharge for their work just because the customers have no choice but pay?

Truly the most paladinesque of behaviors!

For a spell that help people to recover from pain, suffering and disease, no less!

But, in the time to make one such potion, they could be out among the masses curing several times as many (with spells or mercies), or be out fighting the wicked, or saving the innocent.

Honestly, I can't envision many Paladins being interested in sitting around brewing potions when there is evil to fight.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

You know doctors are only in it for the money and to see good looking members of the opposite sex in nurse's uniforms, right?

==Aelryinth

Sovereign Court

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Aelryinth wrote:

You know doctors are only in it for the money and to see good looking members of the opposite sex in nurse's uniforms, right?

==Aelryinth

So - what you're saying is that I should become a nurse in order to encourage more women to become doctors?


I can envision hosputaler paladins doing potions to help people the 300 dayw a year they aren't fighting something, or preparing supplies for future use, before the plague breaks and they are overwhelmed

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

gustavo iglesias wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

Lesser Restoration is on multiple class lists. Bless weapon is not. I don't see why Paladins wouldn't sell at the market price. Just because they can make them cheap doesn't mean they have to sell them that way.

If your are going into market price then bless weapon should be even mire expensive, as they are harder to find and lack of supply works in their favor. Every single maker of Bless Oil is also a maker of Lesser Restoration Potions, bit the oppositte isnt true . Also, high demand stuff (like potions of CLW ir Enlarge) should have higher price than potiins of [insert sucky lvl 1 spell here] so I think that's a weak excuse. PF magic marts dont follow market rules, they are socialist services with regulated price based on production costa, not Adam Smith's invisible hand.

and yet, you seem to think there's unlimited amounts of paladins selling lesser Restoration potions, and nobody else can sell them, which directly references infinite supply at price point X, which IS the invisible hand.

So, I find that counter argument pretty funny.

==Aelryinth

Weak strawman.

I haven't said that your should find paladin LRP available. "There aren't paladins with Brew Potion in this town" is a perfectly valid answer. Justo that it implies no Bless Weapon Oil as well. Alzó, an infinite supply of paladín potions isnt more dumb than an infinite suply of, say, druid potions or ranger scrolls. Yes, pathfibder rules to buy items are dumb. Regardless of class

Actually, since all Bless Weapon oils come from paladins, it means they were brought here from somewhere else, whereas the level 5 cleric with Brew Potion in town can make the Lesser Restoration potion locally.

Which now begs the questions of why the price for the oil is the same price here as the paladin's hometown, when logically transport costs should increase the price!...

Is Bless Weapon available as a Domain spell, perchance?

==Aelryinth

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

You know doctors are only in it for the money and to see good looking members of the opposite sex in nurse's uniforms, right?

==Aelryinth

So - what you're saying is that I should become a nurse in order to encourage more women to become doctors?

That all depends if you're a good looking guy.

If General Hospital and all the medical dramas out there are any guideline, YES!

==Aelryinth

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

gustavo iglesias wrote:
I can envision hosputaler paladins doing potions to help people the 300 dayw a year they aren't fighting something, or preparing supplies for future use, before the plague breaks and they are overwhelmed

If you're going to stockpile, you want to stockpile wands...they are 1/3rd the price. Potions are tools that people without magic can use...those are things paladins would sell to wealthy non-casters, with maybe one or two for themselves for emergencies only.

It also represents a LOT of gold tied up in magic items.

and since the default levels for magic items are assumed primary casters, everything is priced at primary caster points for ease and simplicity. I think that's the big reason why Lesser Restoration is priced at cleric prices, not paladin. It also removes the caster list leverage, which has been going on since the start of 3E prestige classes and custom lists started it. Was it the trapsmith who got some level 3 spells at 1st level? Can't remember.

==Aelryinth


Aelryinth wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:
Lesser Restoration is on multiple class lists. Bless weapon is not. I don't see why Paladins wouldn't sell at the market price. Just because they can make them cheap doesn't mean they have to sell them that way.

So... Those holy bastions of good would overcharge for their work just because the customers have no choice but pay?

Truly the most paladinesque of behaviors!

For a spell that help people to recover from pain, suffering and disease, no less!
I know, LG clerics are horrible people, overcharging for those potions.

Those Clerics have no choice. It's a second level spell for them. The Paladins overcharging for their potions are just being dicks.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Then why do those clerics charge full price instead of at cost? Why aren't you forcing the paladins to charge at cost too?


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Man, I love nurse' outfits! So comfortable, loose, and not at all clingy, revealing, or, really, sexy!

... wait. I'm reasonably certain one of these stereotypes has nothing to do with the modern practice of nursing and is instead a hold-over from the '50s and 60's pulps and pinups (respectively).

Incidentally, I know that this is not your view. Just mentioning, as it's really kind of a strange and weird hold over from 60 years ago that lingers to this day. The iconicism of uniforms, I guess?


I'll buy a LR wand in a heart beat. But most GM would argue that potions are more common, because fewer paladines can qualify for craft wands.

"There's no paladín brewer un this town, but there's one in a nearby town" is perfectly valid answer. I'll través to that town if needed, that players hace to search for gear is ok

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Lemmy wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:
Lesser Restoration is on multiple class lists. Bless weapon is not. I don't see why Paladins wouldn't sell at the market price. Just because they can make them cheap doesn't mean they have to sell them that way.

So... Those holy bastions of good would overcharge for their work just because the customers have no choice but pay?

Truly the most paladinesque of behaviors!

For a spell that help people to recover from pain, suffering and disease, no less!
I know, LG clerics are horrible people, overcharging for those potions.

Those Clerics have no choice. It's a second level spell for them. The Paladins overcharging for their potions are just being dicks.

In defense of the market, the paladins might be selling at 50 gp, but the merchants are all buying them out, hauling them out to small towns where only clerics are, and selling them at 300 gp and making a sweet profit while doing so. Guaranteed money!

Or, the paladins might be selling at 300 gp and keeping the money to do good deeds instead of those TN bastard merchants.

Charging what the market will bear is the market. Nothing to do with reproductive organs at all.

==Aelryinth


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If there is a market price difference of 250 gp, those paladin are heavily incentivised to produce due to the gap. Paladins are only LG, one could even say the most LG of LG. There aren't enough around to put clerics out of business. However, they can make loads of money selling these to merchants or priests of any creed, reinvest profits and fund poverty fighting programs, charities, crusades against evil, recruiting or rebuilding infrastructure. They may share profits of the 250 with merchants, depending on competition.

The paladin with low strength and constitution but good brains and a honest soul is the overlooked heart of a Paladin Organization. He listens wisely to his elder mentor, the arthritic Seelah, "Do not overlook the importance of your duty. Money moves mountains, potions profits power Paladin projects and prayers. Each potion enables our mission and - WHAT ARE DOING PUTTING ASPHODEL IN THERE YOU NINCOMPOOP!"


Btw I bate my new phone and its autocorrect


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Aelryinth wrote:

In defense of the market, the paladins might be selling at 50 gp, but the merchants are all buying them out, hauling them out to small towns where only clerics are, and selling them at 300 gp and making a sweet profit while doing so. Guaranteed money!

Or, the paladins might be selling at 300 gp and keeping the money to do good deeds instead of those TN bastard merchants.

Charging what the market will bear is the market. Nothing to do with reproductive organs at all.

==Aelryinth

I'd like to see a rules citation that says Paladins should charge more for the potions they brew just because it's on someone else's spell list.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Lemmy wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

In defense of the market, the paladins might be selling at 50 gp, but the merchants are all buying them out, hauling them out to small towns where only clerics are, and selling them at 300 gp and making a sweet profit while doing so. Guaranteed money!

Or, the paladins might be selling at 300 gp and keeping the money to do good deeds instead of those TN bastard merchants.

Charging what the market will bear is the market. Nothing to do with reproductive organs at all.

==Aelryinth

I'd like to see a rules citation that says Paladins should charge more for the potions they brew just because it's on someone else's spell list.

I'd like to see the rule that says paladins have to sell for less when everyone else makes 6x the money for the same product.

I can totally see clerics of other faiths buying all their potions and wands of lesser restorations from paladins. They can buy at full markup, and sell them at their own cost to make the wands and potions, and make money.

Of course, I don't see the paladins doing that, when they could just sell the potions at 150 gp themselves, and not fund the church of Calistria.

==Aelryinth


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If there were a marketing price, useful (potentially life saving) spells like lesser restoration would sell for more than 300gp, while useless spells would sell for more. A +1 orc bane sword near Bekkzen would be worth much more than a +1 [insert monster from Vudra], and do on.

There's no market in PF magicmart. There's a regulated price, which is bases in clases level and spell level


Lemmy wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

In defense of the market, the paladins might be selling at 50 gp, but the merchants are all buying them out, hauling them out to small towns where only clerics are, and selling them at 300 gp and making a sweet profit while doing so. Guaranteed money!

Or, the paladins might be selling at 300 gp and keeping the money to do good deeds instead of those TN bastard merchants.

Charging what the market will bear is the market. Nothing to do with reproductive organs at all.

==Aelryinth

I'd like to see a rules citation that says Paladins should charge more for the potions they brew just because it's on someone else's spell list.

There is none. words as written says you're 100% correct. Aelryinth is pointing out the mental loop you need to jump through to have them sit by side.

A person could figure out that a Paladin made it, just based on caster level if they know paladins. But if they were the same level and both are divine magic, i'm not sure you could tell.

As a GM, suppose your players bought 10 LR potions from a Paladin (or better yet, made them herself) and want to sell them for 150 gp to a merchant. Would you or disallow, and how would you explain it in the world why the prices are they way they in the world? :)


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Aelryinth wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

In defense of the market, the paladins might be selling at 50 gp, but the merchants are all buying them out, hauling them out to small towns where only clerics are, and selling them at 300 gp and making a sweet profit while doing so. Guaranteed money!

Or, the paladins might be selling at 300 gp and keeping the money to do good deeds instead of those TN bastard merchants.

Charging what the market will bear is the market. Nothing to do with reproductive organs at all.

==Aelryinth

I'd like to see a rules citation that says Paladins should charge more for the potions they brew just because it's on someone else's spell list.

I'd like to see the rule that says paladins have to sell for less when everyone else makes 6x the money for the same product.

I can totally see clerics of other faiths buying all their potions and wands of lesser restorations from paladins. They can buy at full markup, and sell them at their own cost to make the wands and potions, and make money.

Of course, I don't see the paladins doing that, when they could just sell the potions at 150 gp themselves, and not fund the church of Calistria.

==Aelryinth

Funny how you defend something is not possible because of the rules (even though the rules don't forbid it in any way)... Then ignore the rules when they don't support your argument.

"You can buy partially-charged wands because the CRB doesn't specifically say it's possible!"
"The rules say potions crafted by Paladins cost 50gp. But the rules don't mean anything. They cost 350 because reasons."

Those arguments are inconsistent at best and dishonest at worst.


Aelryinth wrote:
I'd like to see the rule that says paladins have to sell for less when everyone else makes 6x the money for the same product.

it's in the magic creation rule, the part where it says it's caster level x spell level. They charge 50g and not 300 for the same reason that priest with no competition in a given town charge 300 and not 550. Because price is based in CL x spell level, not market


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Rabbiteconomist wrote:


As a GM, suppose your players bought 10 LR potions from a Paladin (or better yet, made them herself) and want to sell them for 150 gp to a merchant. Would you or disallow, and how would you explain it in the world why the prices are they way they in the world? :)

This is a great point. If paladín potions are bought at 300gp, then they are sold at 150gp. A paladín PC with brew potion would craft potions for 25gp and sell them at 150gp. That's a great return of investment, your know


Thread for purchasing and selling stuff. EDIT: leave this thread to the unfun-for-CR monsters!

Liberty's Edge

Mi-Go! They are tough critters!


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Aelryinth wrote:
Quote:
For a spell that help people to recover from pain, suffering and disease, no less!
I know, LG clerics are horrible people, overcharging for those potions. They should give them away for less then the cost of making them, i.e. at paladin prices.

I know you're being sarcastic but this is exactly what priests do with holy water. Holy water is purchased for its cost to create and nothing more.

EDIT: Speaking of which, holy water is another of those cheap consumables that tends to kick the butts of some irritating monsters. You can use it in melee against shadows for some surprisingly efficient burst damage.

EDIT 2: Unholy water is the same, so I guess evil priests are more benevolent than Paladins in your campaign? :P


Ashiel wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:
Quote:
For a spell that help people to recover from pain, suffering and disease, no less!
I know, LG clerics are horrible people, overcharging for those potions. They should give them away for less then the cost of making them, i.e. at paladin prices.

I know you're being sarcastic but this is exactly what priests do with holy water. Holy water is purchased for its cost to create and nothing more.

EDIT: Speaking of which, holy water is another of those cheap consumables that tends to kick the butts of some irritating monsters. You can use it in melee against shadows for some surprisingly efficient burst damage.

EDIT 2: Unholy water is the same, so I guess evil priests are more benevolent than Paladins in your campaign? :P

Half of 2d4 is efficient burst damage? Against a typical 19 hp shadow you'll have to do that 7 or 8 times to kill it, typically, and that's assuming that you don't miss the actually pretty decent touch AC of 15.


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That's pretty good compared to swinging at it with your mage fists for 0d0-0.

Yes, a magic weapon (or an oil of the spell) is better. But it's also not an option for everyone, and magic missile isn't exactly a high priority spell at low levels.


Ian Bell wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:
Quote:
For a spell that help people to recover from pain, suffering and disease, no less!
I know, LG clerics are horrible people, overcharging for those potions. They should give them away for less then the cost of making them, i.e. at paladin prices.

I know you're being sarcastic but this is exactly what priests do with holy water. Holy water is purchased for its cost to create and nothing more.

EDIT: Speaking of which, holy water is another of those cheap consumables that tends to kick the butts of some irritating monsters. You can use it in melee against shadows for some surprisingly efficient burst damage.

EDIT 2: Unholy water is the same, so I guess evil priests are more benevolent than Paladins in your campaign? :P

Half of 2d4 is efficient burst damage? Against a typical 19 hp shadow you'll have to do that 7 or 8 times to kill it, typically, and that's assuming that you don't miss the actually pretty decent touch AC of 15.

Yeah it can be, just not from a single PC. Multiple PCs can clobber a shadow in short order with it, or at least make the shadow panic. Shadows are undead, they do raise easily, and they die for good at 0 HP, and they are intelligent.

Of course you could always just carry a 50 gp oil of bless weapon or magic weapon incase you come up on a shadow. A scroll works too if you have a caster who can use it efficiently.

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