Do I have to pick a feat as I get it in PFS play?


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

For example, I am a first level human. I pick a feat for my human bonus feat. I want to save the feat I get at first level till I reach 2nd level. Is this possible?

I am going to be a Investigator, but I am going one level in Swashbuckler for my first level. I am leveling the Investigator the rest of his levels. I want to use my 1st level feat for 2nd so I can pick up Infusion then.

Grand Lodge

No, you have to pick your feats as you get them, the same as in normal play.

Sczarni

^ what he said.

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Besides, you can't spend a feat at your first level of Investigator to pick up Infusion anyway.

Sczarni

^ also what he said.

Liberty's Edge

Okay, I know you have until 2nd to change your character as much as you like. I know at 2nd it becomes locked in. I would have to make all the changes to my character before I complete the game that would move me to 2nd, correct?

Please forgive me, I am new to organized play.

Grand Lodge

I would have to wait till I get the talent class feature before I select the feat that allows me to pick up more? That is how I interpreted your post Rainy


8bitGameMaster wrote:
I would have to wait till I get the talent class feature before I select the feat that allows me to pick up more? That is how I interpreted your post Rainy

Correct, you don't qualify for a feat that has a prerequisite of a class feature until you are actually of a level in that class to have gained that class feature. So, you can't take an Extra Talent feat for Investigator until 3rd level (of Investigator).

Sczarni

Indeed. You can completely rebuild your character however you want before you play a game above 1st level.

You could be a Fighter for your 1st XP, a Wizard for your 2nd, and a Rogue for your 3rd.

When you show up as a Swashbuckler-1/Investigator-1, you're locked in.

(barring retraining from Ultimate Campaign)

Liberty's Edge

Thank you all very much for the timely responses and all of the information. It is greatly appreciated.


But just because you can rebuild at 2nd doesn't mean you can take use your first level feats you didn't qualify and use them at 2nd level. For example you take 1st level of Investigator you have a zero BAB so you can't take Weapon Focus because it requires a +1 BAB so you take Weapon Finesse instead. Then let's say you take a second level of Investigator, you now have a +1 BAB, you can't make your Weapon Finesse into Weapon Focus. You still have to act like you took it, and qualify for it as if you had it from 1st level.

Grand Lodge

Jodokai wrote:
But just because you can rebuild at 2nd doesn't mean you can take use your first level feats you didn't qualify and use them at 2nd level. For example you take 1st level of Investigator you have a zero BAB so you can't take Weapon Focus because it requires a +1 BAB so you take Power Attack instead. Then let's say you take a second level of Investigator, you now have a +1 BAB, you can't make your Power Attack into Weapon Focus. You still have to act like you took it, and qualify for it as if you had it from 1st level.

Bad example, power attack also requires 1 BAB. But if you ignore that and assume PA doesn't have a BAB prereq then you're spot on ;).


claudekennilol wrote:
Bad example, power attack also requires 1 BAB. But if you ignore that and assume PA doesn't have a BAB prereq then you're spot on ;).

I don't know what you're talking about, I said Weapon Finesse the whole time :P

I knew I should have looked it up before opening my mouth.


Jodokai wrote:
But just because you can rebuild at 2nd doesn't mean you can take use your first level feats you didn't qualify and use them at 2nd level. For example you take 1st level of Investigator you have a zero BAB so you can't take Weapon Focus because it requires a +1 BAB so you take Weapon Finesse instead. Then let's say you take a second level of Investigator, you now have a +1 BAB, you can't make your Weapon Finesse into Weapon Focus. You still have to act like you took it, and qualify for it as if you had it from 1st level.

Is that a PFS rule? Because the Ultimate Campaign FAQ says otherwise.

Ultimate Campaign FAQ wrote:

Retraining: Can I retrain a feat to replace it with a feat I didn't qualify for at the level I originally gained that feat?

Yes. As long as the new feat is a valid feat for your current character, you can retrain the old feat and replace it with the new feat.

For example, if you are a 3rd-level rogue who took Improved Initiative at 1st level, you can retrain that feat and replace it with Weapon Focus. Even though Weapon Focus has a prerequisite of "base attack bonus +1" (which means you couldn't take it as a 1st-level rogue), it is a valid feat for your current level (3rd), and is therefore a valid choice for retraining.

(Note: Likewise, the fighter class ability to retrain fighter bonus feats does not require you to meet all of the new feat's prerequisites at the level you originally gained the feat.)

Here is the actual FAQ


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Jodokai wrote:
But just because you can rebuild at 2nd doesn't mean you can take use your first level feats you didn't qualify and use them at 2nd level.

Source?

I'm looking over the retraining rules in UCmpn and don't see it. Is this a rule specific to PFS?

Edit: Ninja'd

Grand Lodge

Quantum Steve wrote:
Jodokai wrote:
But just because you can rebuild at 2nd doesn't mean you can take use your first level feats you didn't qualify and use them at 2nd level.

Source?

I'm looking over the retraining rules in UCmpn and don't see it. Is this a rule specific to PFS?

Edit: Ninja'd

Because the OP is not asking about retraining. He's asking "Can I leave my first level feat blank and then just fill it in at level 2 because now I qualify for more stuff?"

Grand Lodge

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
Jodokai wrote:
But just because you can rebuild at 2nd doesn't mean you can take use your first level feats you didn't qualify and use them at 2nd level. For example you take 1st level of Investigator you have a zero BAB so you can't take Weapon Focus because it requires a +1 BAB so you take Weapon Finesse instead. Then let's say you take a second level of Investigator, you now have a +1 BAB, you can't make your Weapon Finesse into Weapon Focus. You still have to act like you took it, and qualify for it as if you had it from 1st level.

Is that a PFS rule? Because the Ultimate Campaign FAQ says otherwise.

Ultimate Campaign FAQ wrote:

Retraining: Can I retrain a feat to replace it with a feat I didn't qualify for at the level I originally gained that feat?

Yes. As long as the new feat is a valid feat for your current character, you can retrain the old feat and replace it with the new feat.

For example, if you are a 3rd-level rogue who took Improved Initiative at 1st level, you can retrain that feat and replace it with Weapon Focus. Even though Weapon Focus has a prerequisite of "base attack bonus +1" (which means you couldn't take it as a 1st-level rogue), it is a valid feat for your current level (3rd), and is therefore a valid choice for retraining.

(Note: Likewise, the fighter class ability to retrain fighter bonus feats does not require you to meet all of the new feat's prerequisites at the level you originally gained the feat.)

Here is the actual FAQ

The free rebuild granted in PFS doesn't use the retraining rules.


Jeff Merola wrote:


Here is the actual FAQ

The free rebuild granted in PFS doesn't use the retraining rules.

OH okay sorry. So then yeah, in that case I'd suggest the OP wait until he can afford to use the retraining rules then :)

This is why I always get confused on rules questions because PFS has different rules than the base game in many cases (like best example is not being able to take human favored class benefits as a half-elf in PFS, even though the FAQ say you can), so then you get added confusion when one person is speaking from PFS experience and the other is speaking from non-PFS... I really think the PFS section needs it's own rules question section.


As Jeff Merola has stated, but let me clarify, there are two retrain rules in PFS

1.) You can retrain your character before you play him at second level. This is called the "Free Retrain" because it costs no gold and no prestige points.

2.) You can use the retrain rules in Ultimate Campaign, in which case you have to spend gold and Prestige Points based on the number of days it would take you to retrain.

You can use rule 2.) at any time in your career and follow the rules exactly as printed in the book. However, if you use rule 1.) you have to "build" the character correctly.


AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
(like best example is not being able to take human favored class benefits as a half-elf in PFS, even though the FAQ say you can)

Where does it say this?


Jodokai wrote:
AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
(like best example is not being able to take human favored class benefits as a half-elf in PFS, even though the FAQ say you can)
Where does it say this?

See here and here for the FAQ about it (although I can't seem to find the one that talks about feats being included... I'll keep looking or you can), as for PFS contradicting the FAQ, I don't know where to find PFS rulings, I just know that last I heard it's always an issue with people who want to for example be a half-orc scarred witch doctor (or even a half-elf scarred witch doctor by taking Racial Heritage (Orc) ) By the RAW (and FAQ) you can, in PFS you cannot.


Okay found the discussion, and John Compton has ruled on it in this thread I don't know how to link individual posts, but it's on the 3rd page towards the bottom. Half-Elves are treated as human and elves, half-orcs are just humans.

EDIT: I've never known it was an issue, because we always assumed the specific FAQ about half-elves overruled the general one about races in general.

Grand Lodge

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AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
Jodokai wrote:
AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
(like best example is not being able to take human favored class benefits as a half-elf in PFS, even though the FAQ say you can)
Where does it say this?
See here and here for the FAQ about it (although I can't seem to find the one that talks about feats being included... I'll keep looking or you can), as for PFS contradicting the FAQ, I don't know where to find PFS rulings, I just know that last I heard it's always an issue with people who want to for example be a half-orc scarred witch doctor (or even a half-elf scarred witch doctor by taking Racial Heritage (Orc) ) By the RAW (and FAQ) you can, in PFS you cannot.

That's because in PFS all Orc options are banned, not that Half-Orcs don't count as them.

Sczarni

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What AbsolutGrndZer0 is referring to isn't actually a PFS rule, it's a restriction found in the Additional Resources allowed for PFS. There are two sourcebooks (Goblins of Golarion and the Advanced Race Guide) that can only be utilized by actual members of that race. Things like UMD and Racial Heritage don't help.

PFS uses the same rules that Pathfinder does for Racial Favored Class Bonuses (including the new FAQ), with the one exception being anything from the Orc section of the Advanced Race Guide.


Jodokai wrote:

Okay found the discussion, and John Compton has ruled on it in this thread I don't know how to link individual posts, but it's on the 3rd page towards the bottom. Half-Elves are treated as human and elves, half-orcs are just humans.

EDIT: I've never known it was an issue, because we always assumed the specific FAQ about half-elves overruled the general one about races in general.

That is PFS, but yeah.


Nefreet wrote:

What AbsolutGrndZer0 is referring to isn't actually a PFS rule, it's a restriction found in the Additional Resources allowed for PFS. There are two sourcebooks (Goblins of Golarion and the Advanced Race Guide) that can only be utilized by actual members of that race. Things like UMD and Racial Heritage don't help.

PFS uses the same rules that Pathfinder does for Racial Favored Class Bonuses (including the new FAQ), with the one exception being anything from the Orc section of the Advanced Race Guide.

Ah that might be a change then I didn't know about then as all the previous threads I read about it everyone (including Brock... the head VC or whatever) chimed in about it... and said that FCB was restricted, even after the FAQ.

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Balathar Temerith wrote:

For example, I am a first level human. I pick a feat for my human bonus feat. I want to save the feat I get at first level till I reach 2nd level. Is this possible?

I am going to be a Investigator, but I am going one level in Swashbuckler for my first level. I am leveling the Investigator the rest of his levels. I want to use my 1st level feat for 2nd so I can pick up Infusion then.

You can't save feats by RAW.

So you can't save feats in PFS which requires RAW.

You can however retrain feats not currently used as a prereq.

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