Arcane Gunslinger - character conspect


Advice


So i've seen a lot of combinations of mixing spellcasters with guns but most of them to work had to focus more on either martial or magic combat. The Arcane Gunslinger is good at both (not perfect though). I hope that no one already posted anything similar to him ;D.

Nad Ilztril
Drow: Gunslinger (mysterious stranger) 7/ Rogue 1/ Assassin 1/ Wizzard (spellslinger) 1/ Arcane Trickster 10

My rolls (standard) / 15 point buy:
Str 10 / 7
Dex 19 / 18
Con 10 / 10
Int 12 / 14
Wis 12 / 9
Cha 15 / 15
(+4 via level progression)
BAB +16

Traits: Magical Talent - Mage Hand, rich parents
Feats (11): rapid reload, weapon finesse, point blank shot, rapid shot, desperate evasion (gunslinger level 7 feat), extra grit, arcane armor, critical improved, craft wondorus item, skill focus: survival, eldricht heritage: orc bloodline
Gear: +1 Rifle or +1 Musket with far reaching sight, sniper googles, +1 pistol or revolver, +1 rapier

So what exactly he can do?
For example snipe target from 160 feet - 1st increment (rifle range 80 feet x2 from spellslinger's "distance" mage bullet) dealing with Dead Shot deed: 5d10 + 7d6 sneak + 15 (focused aim deed), (4d10 +12 if your DM wont let you add rapid shot to total potential attacks number), and you roll d20 five times, with crit chance 19-20, so there is quite high chance for crit :] If enchance gun with "shocking burst", we get: 20d10 +8d6 + 3d10 + 15 on crit!
Oh, and your target is flatfooted and denied of armor bonus to AC, and you even dont need to be hidden to sneak attack him (impromptu sneak attack from AT). Whats more you can try assassinate him, though Fort. DC 15 isnt hard to fail, but always something. But attack like this is costfull (2 grits), but no worries, Arcane Gunslinger is 11 lv. caster, disintegration? maybe once per day only, but quite deadly 22d6 + 7d6 (sneak attack) + 29 (orc bloodline) and if you chose to have just one arcane gun you get x3 on crit, but i preffer to have two arcane guns. Besides this, he can turn invisible, throw darkness, use variable mage bullets, shot cone/ranged touch spells from his gun, teleport and all the cool stuff that every proper Arcane Gunslinger should have :]

Please let me know if you have some ideas to upgrade this character, or if you noticed some mistakes.

How i was able to chose Arcane Tricster as prestige class, with just one wizzard level? - Drow starts with Darkness spell like ability (level 2 arcane spell) + trait Magical Talent (mage hand spell like ability), wasnt sure if its possible but i checked on Paizo FAQ, and it is 100% legal :]. If you wont like to play evil drow, you may chose for example elf (look for traits with lv.2+ sp), and replace assassin with master spy.


What about snakebite brawler 1 instead of rogue or assassin perhaps ?


Oh, yeah snakebite brawler should be better then assassin, thanks :] Though assassin is better to rolepay, suits more to gameplay style.


May I suggest that you take only 1 level in Spellslinger Wizard, then 1 level in sorcerer, and then take levels in arcane trickster (boosting the sorcerer progression). The penalties from spell slinger are pretty severe, doing this offers more options.

Personally I would drop the level of assassin for something else. Like the sorcerer level.

The utility gained from the better casting off the sorcerer (versus the restricted spellslinger casting) can still bring a whole lot of utility and power with only a small decrease in damage (and then only 1d6 from sneak attack).


Yup i am aware of that, but arcane trickster requirement is sneak attack +2d6.


John McCow wrote:
Yup i am aware of that, but arcane trickster requirement is sneak attack +2d6.

I don't know what all deeds you have, but you could always drop a level or two of gunslinger and then you can supplant with the sorcerer and snakebite brawler levels.


How do you get sneek attack further than 30 feet away?
I am not sure what you want this character to do. Your Spell casting will be little and late.generally it is a good idea in a point buy game to Pick all tha stats to the level you want then and then only advance the one you want highest in the end. That way you capitalise on the fact that the level up stat gains dosent Care about point value.


Cap. Darling wrote:

How do you get sneek attack further than 30 feet away?

I am not sure what you want this character to do. Your Spell casting will be little and late.generally it is a good idea in a point buy game to Pick all tha stats to the level you want then and then only advance the one you want highest in the end. That way you capitalise on the fact that the level up stat gains dosent Care about point value.

Sniper Googles - ignore range restriction for sneak attack, quite expensive though (20k gold) - thats why craft wondorus item feat., well i wanted to make a good ranged gun striker, though normal lv. 20 gunslinger has similar dmg to level 7 one. Multiclassing him with spellslinger provides some nice bonuses (better range/dmg/ignore concealment/enchancment bonus from mage bullets), and he is more universal on battlefield - if he meet oponent with dmg reduction, he can use spells.

Claxon wrote:
John McCow wrote:
Yup i am aware of that, but arcane trickster requirement is sneak attack +2d6.
I don't know what all deeds you have, but you could always drop a level or two of gunslinger and then you can supplant with the sorcerer and snakebite brawler levels.

Dead Shot dead is gained at lv7 gunslinger, its crucial ;]


Caster level 11 at 20 is gonna be useless for attack spells that allow SR. Your big damage crit is only gonna net you around 190 on a crit at level 2o. At that level you want more damage out of a full round spend on offense. IMOP.
PF is not a good game to do the one shot one kill kind of character Unfortunatly.
If you dont plan on using all the skills that much look at a musket master5/spellslinger5/eldrichknigth10. It is still gonna hurt on the caster level but with magical knack, greater Spell pen and owtherworldly kimono it can work.
I May have missed somthing that make your build great, but i would focus on getting Lots of lead flying to max out damage. And if you have advanced firearms make sure that all the gang use them so you can kill all your dragons at 300-400 feet.


You are better off going with Eldritch Knight instead of AT.

Spellslinger 1/Sorcerer (or arcanist) 1/Gunslinger1 into EK with early entry (or sorc levels until you qualify) is nice. You can reduce the MAD with empyreal sorc or mysterious stranger.

Spellslinger 1 and the rest in some other casting class also works; good with myrmidarch, oracle or even cleric.


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Lone Knave, he is wanting to focus on adding in sneak attack damage which is the reason for Arcane Trickster.

I would recommend either choosing to go :
Spellslinger Wizard 1/ Empyreal Sorcerer (Wisdom based) 2/Gunslinger 7/ Eldritch Knight 10

This method would give up on Sneak Attack, but you'd be able to wield a gun and have plenty of casting power to back it up. The spell slinger wizards ability add icing to an already pretty tasty cake. Bonus points for the wisdom synergy of empyreal sorcerer and gunslinger.

Honestly, this is probably better over all than a sneak attack build.

While Arcane Trickster looks like it might add a lot, it doesn't do much until the final level of it.

Impromptu Sneak Attack only works twice per day (and you have to wait till 7th AT level to get that) and is restricted to work only within 30ft. Sniper Goggles don't negate that, it's a restriction of the ability. So twice per day you can sneak attack something you would normally not be able to but you have to be within 30ft.

Invisible Theif is nice, but as a spell caster you could already use greater invisbility anyways as a spell. It's a nice bonus, but not really great either.

The only reason to go Arcane Trickster really, is for Surprise Spells. Now spells that don't normally have attacks rolls can be used with Sneak Attack. But this doesn't combine as well with the spellslinger's abilities. The spell slinger can use his A spellslinger can cast any ranged touch attack, cone, line, or ray spells through his arcane gun. The problem here is the favorite spell to use with Surprise Spell is something like fireball. Nice big area, catch a group of enemies and light them up. But it doesn't qualify for use with Arcane Gun. Ranged touch attack and rays already qualified for sneak attack. Cones usually have a relatively short range (meaning you have to get in close) and lines...well you just don't get to often hit more than one target with a line :( People don't seem to line up often.

I guess my point is you should decide between gunslinger/spell slinger
or arcane trickster caster build. Trying to combine all three will leave you very mediocre.

Trying to be good with a gun, good with spell casting, and good with sneak attack are just too many diverse things to do well together.


Impromptu sneak attack range restriction a little bit ruins my build ;/
I'll think about replacing arcane trickster with eldritch knight then, maybe try to combine it with some two weapon fighting (2 revolvers for example). With rapid shot shot it gives 6 shots per round, boost dmg it with some feats (deadly aim for example), add dex bonus from gunslinger gun training, though it lowers attack bonus a lot, but spellslinger may provide +5 enchancment which negates deadly aim and rapid shot penalties, for enemies with damage reduction or when low on ammo use Dead Shot or spells. That may work ;] Thanks

Was thinking about taking mysterious stranger (use char instead of wis, +char bonus to all dmg rolls for one grit), but then i'd have to reach level 9 with gunslinger to get gun training, it will result with droping eldritch knight level to 9 and sorc to 1, so only lv10 caster :( (12 with magical knack trait). And anyway have to figure out way to learn arcane level 3 spells without proper caster class levels...


Reloading requires a free hand, which your hands aren't if you are wielding two weapon (like revolvers). Dual wielding pistols becomes an activity of finding how to freely reload two at a time.

Aasimar get daylight as SLA, which is a 3rd level spell.


Well, fire 5 shots from 1st revolver, 1 shot from 2nd - 1st round, then opposite - 5 shots from 2nd revolver and 1 from first - 2nd round. Use swift action to enchance 1st revolver with "dancing" ability, reload 2nd revolver - move action, cast some spell from 2nd revolver - standard action, grab dancing revolver - free action - 3rd round. In 4th round use same method to reload 1st revolver, and cast another spell. And you are fully loaded ;], but it requires a lot of spells per day though. Dancing has 4 rounds cool down, so its good to save one bullet in revolver and use Dead Shot deed. I am aware that dancing "can only be placed on melee weapons", but DM should allow you do that, whats the diffrent between floating dagger, club or pistol?

Was thinking about pistolero 11/1 spellslinger/1 sorc/7 eldricht. On 11th gunslinger level buy signature deed and use it with "up close and deadly" - free 3d6 dmg for each succesfull revolver hit. And use spells mostly for "mage bullets", and to use somehow standard action while reloading. In total have 17 spells per day, so its enough for about 20 rounds of combat. Biggest flaw is low caster level - 10 with magical knack trait, and low level spells, though still can use some dmg spells (like dragon breath/lighting bolt) or turn invisible, or cast for one bullet while reloading "named bullet" spell - and use this bullet for dead shot deed - this is quite awesome. Feats in spell penetration might be usefull though..


This build reminds me of a custom archetype I created for the magus class called the Shootist, a dual revolver wielding ranged spellstriker that doesn't get standard spellstrike (unlike the "meh" myrmidarch) as this gunfighter never intends to enter melee combat. This way I could have all my gunslinging capabilities, and 20 levels of spellcasting with never a need to multi-class, nor utilize prestige classes, activities I never do with PCs I run (I never multi-class, class dip, nor take prestige class levels, and never intend to).

Of course the setting this archetype was designed for is for a fantasy Old West setting, so revolvers are common. Single shot pistols would be seen as extremely anachronistic in such a setting. Basically in standard games, I don't want guns, but in games that I allow guns, I just as soon use advanced guns in the first place.


John McCow wrote:

Well, fire 5 shots from 1st revolver, 1 shot from 2nd - 1st round, then opposite - 5 shots from 2nd revolver and 1 from first - 2nd round. Use swift action to enchance 1st revolver with "dancing" ability, reload 2nd revolver - move action, cast some spell from 2nd revolver - standard action, grab dancing revolver - free action - 3rd round. In 4th round use same method to reload 1st revolver, and cast another spell. And you are fully loaded ;], but it requires a lot of spells per day though. Dancing has 4 rounds cool down, so its good to save one bullet in revolver and use Dead Shot deed. I am aware that dancing "can only be placed on melee weapons", but DM should allow you do that, whats the diffrent between floating dagger, club or pistol?

Was thinking about pistolero 11/1 spellslinger/1 sorc/7 eldricht. On 11th gunslinger level buy signature deed and use it with "up close and deadly" - free 3d6 dmg for each succesfull revolver hit. And use spells mostly for "mage bullets", and to use somehow standard action while reloading. In total have 17 spells per day, so its enough for about 20 rounds of combat. Biggest flaw is low caster level - 10 with magical knack trait, and low level spells, though still can use some dmg spells (like dragon breath/lighting bolt) or turn invisible, or cast for one bullet while reloading "named bullet" spell - and use this bullet for dead shot deed - this is quite awesome. Feats in spell penetration might be usefull though..

Ummm...you should strongly consider the fact that many GMs wont allow revolvers as they are advanced firearms. The base setting for Golarion assumes only early firearms as part of the setting. So you should verify that your GM will allow you to use advanced firearms before building around it.

You should also verify the dancing quality.

You are making a lot of assumptions about your DM letting you do things that don't normally work or aren't allowed, so I would strongly recommend talking to them about it before you get to far in.


Claxon wrote:
John McCow wrote:

Well, fire 5 shots from 1st revolver, 1 shot from 2nd - 1st round, then opposite - 5 shots from 2nd revolver and 1 from first - 2nd round. Use swift action to enchance 1st revolver with "dancing" ability, reload 2nd revolver - move action, cast some spell from 2nd revolver - standard action, grab dancing revolver - free action - 3rd round. In 4th round use same method to reload 1st revolver, and cast another spell. And you are fully loaded ;], but it requires a lot of spells per day though. Dancing has 4 rounds cool down, so its good to save one bullet in revolver and use Dead Shot deed. I am aware that dancing "can only be placed on melee weapons", but DM should allow you do that, whats the diffrent between floating dagger, club or pistol?

Was thinking about pistolero 11/1 spellslinger/1 sorc/7 eldricht. On 11th gunslinger level buy signature deed and use it with "up close and deadly" - free 3d6 dmg for each succesfull revolver hit. And use spells mostly for "mage bullets", and to use somehow standard action while reloading. In total have 17 spells per day, so its enough for about 20 rounds of combat. Biggest flaw is low caster level - 10 with magical knack trait, and low level spells, though still can use some dmg spells (like dragon breath/lighting bolt) or turn invisible, or cast for one bullet while reloading "named bullet" spell - and use this bullet for dead shot deed - this is quite awesome. Feats in spell penetration might be usefull though..

Ummm...you should strongly consider the fact that many GMs wont allow revolvers as they are advanced firearms. The base setting for Golarion assumes only early firearms as part of the setting. So you should verify that your GM will allow you to use advanced firearms before building around it.

You should also verify the dancing quality.

You are making a lot of assumptions about your DM letting you do things that don't normally work or aren't allowed, so I would strongly recommend talking to them about it before you get to...

he was talking about a rifle in the OP so i assume he is going with advanced firearms.


gamer-printer wrote:
This build reminds me of a custom archetype I created for the magus class called the Shootist, a dual revolver wielding ranged spellstriker that doesn't get standard spellstrike (unlike the "meh" myrmidarch)

Spell slinger+Named bullet+Mymidarch=autocrit on ray spells that do x3.


LoneKnave wrote:
gamer-printer wrote:
This build reminds me of a custom archetype I created for the magus class called the Shootist, a dual revolver wielding ranged spellstriker that doesn't get standard spellstrike (unlike the "meh" myrmidarch)
Spell slinger+Named bullet+Mymidarch=autocrit on ray spells that do x3.

Sad that myrmidarch is a completely broken (worthless) archetype for ranged combat. It doesn't let you spell combat with ranged weapons.


Blakmane wrote:
LoneKnave wrote:
gamer-printer wrote:
This build reminds me of a custom archetype I created for the magus class called the Shootist, a dual revolver wielding ranged spellstriker that doesn't get standard spellstrike (unlike the "meh" myrmidarch)
Spell slinger+Named bullet+Mymidarch=autocrit on ray spells that do x3.
Sad that myrmidarch is a completely broken (worthless) archetype for ranged combat. It doesn't let you spell combat with ranged weapons.

Nor does anyone else! No class can make a full attack with a ranged weapon and also cast a spell at the same time. That alone does not make the archetype worthless for ranged combat. Ranged spellstrike, even with the limitations, is a powerful ability (which would admittedly be even better if its second half wasn't borderline impossible to use).


LoneKnave wrote:

Nor does anyone else! No class can make a full attack with a ranged weapon and also cast a spell at the same time. That alone does not make the archetype worthless for ranged combat. Ranged spellstrike, even with the limitations, is a powerful ability (which would admittedly be even better if its second half wasn't borderline impossible to use).

That's not entirely true. Full-attack with a bow and cast a quicken spell.

But I do know what you mean, no one gets a working ranged spell combat. Which is quite sad, as I would play one. But honestly, an archer who could spell combat would probably be way too powerful. Archery is already one of the most powerful combat styles. It is the most powerful unless you can get access to a pounce like mechanic. Being able to freely combine it with a spell without needing to spend the cost to quicken...that'd be some nasty shit.


I don't think is is exactly what you would want to go for but, the wording of spellslinger states you can use it with any spells and doesn't specify arcane or divine. So a Race that gives a level 2 arcane SLA and taking the trickery domain as a cleric would allow you too access Mystic Theurge at level 3. Gunslinger 1/ Wizard (Spellslinger) 1/Cleric 1/Mystic Theurge 10/ Eldritch Knight 7 would get you a Gunslinger that would be able to cast lvl 9 arcane spells and lvl 6 divine spells out of his gun, with 14 BaB pretty decent HD and the ability to buff himself pretty well with the likes with divine power.

I'm not sure if it's worth lvl 9 spells but two more levels of cleric would allow you to cast Harm through your gun, hell it might be better if you swapped out Eldritch knight for 6 or 7 level of cleric so you get level 9 Divine spells and you would still be able to cast disintegrate out of your gun.

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