[PFS] Bloodrager leveling advice


Advice

Silver Crusade

Hey all,
Just hit 4th level with my human bloodrager (arcane bloodline). Here's what I look like so far:

STR 18 (15 + 2race + 1lvl)
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 13

Traits: Indomitable Will, Friend in Every Town

Feats: Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Improved Sunder (also Eschew Materials as a bonus feat)

I have the Spelleater archetype, replacing Uncanny Dodge (and Improved) and my normal DR with getting Fast Healing while raging. Later I'll also be able to "eat" spell slots for some minor, swift-action self-healing.

Anyway, the big thing right now is I need to pick two spells known. With my CHA score, I get 2/day, so I shouldn't pick spells I'll want to cast repeatedly. I also won't have high save DCs (only DC 12 for my 1st-level spells), so "save negates" spells don't seem like a good idea. On the other hand, bloodragers (unlike rangers/paladins) have a full CL instead of level—3, so effects that scale with level are more usable.

So far, I've considered blade lash for some extra combat versatility, burning hands for swarm-killing, feather fall for the occasional "oh crap" moment, shield for tough-looking fights if I don't think my rage-blur will cut it...

I dunno, it seems like there are lots of reasonable options, so I'm having trouble picking. Any thoughts? Thanks!

Shadow Lodge

Long arm is kind of nice.
Edit:
As RainyDayNinja notes about other spells, it might be more usefull as a wand.

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I'd take feather fall, because it's something you can't really get in a wand or scroll. Shield, on the other hand, is prime wand material. Burning hands for swarms is probably another good idea. The other option would be shocking grasp for the odd Season 6 robot, but if you have Improved Sunder, I'm guessing you have (or are working toward) an adamantine weapon.


It is pretty hard to choose the right spells for a bloodrager. You get so few to know, but there's lots of cool ones to choose from.

I'm playing a dhampir bloodrager on an online campaign. Undead bloodline just because it's so appropriate. He's fourth level and the two spells I got for him are Phantom Blood and Windy Escape

Anyway, my brother is the DM in the regular group I play with. We were talking about bloodragers and he said one spell that he personally thought should be a must have for Bloodragers is Phantom Blood. Lasts 10 minutes per level and kicks in immediately to grant you 1 temporary HP per level should you normally become unconscious or die when you come out of bloodrage. The idea is to cast it on yourself as insurance sort of thing before a battle commences.

The other one I picked for my bloodrager was Windy Escape. That's one of those few spells you can cast instantly as needed even when it's not your turn. I figured that one was the best way to counter the effects of a critical hit my character receives from a non-magical weapon.

The other ones that seem appropriate, after talking to my chums at my brother's game are: Frostbite, Line in the Sand, Ray of Enfeeblement, and Ray of Sickening.

There's also Infernal Healing too. Handy spell that. Could use that after a battle to patch yourself up some. Of course, your character's alignment might have some bearing on whether or not you use that one.

As Conman the Barbarian suggested, Long Arm is also a solid choice. I prefer my bloodrager to carry around a pole-arm, like a Lucerne Hammer or Bardiche, instead. But that's just own play style.

RainyDayNinja has solid suggestions too.

I guess the deciding factor is choosing spells largely based on how you see your character conducting himself in a dust-up.

Silver Crusade

RainyDayNinja wrote:
but if you have Improved Sunder, I'm guessing you have (or are working toward) an adamantine weapon.

Actually, I plan to wield [REDACTED] the [REDACTED]. ;D

@Cem... Windy escape, if I'm not mistaken, is a racial spell, and therefore unavailable to me. Also, I didn't think infernal healing was on my spell list...?

Phantom blood is appealing, but requires some foresight (which is irksome with so few slots per day). I'm planning to get a CON belt to qualify for Raging Vitality at 5th, which should be more user-friendly for a similar goal.

Long arm... Meh, doesn't fit my aesthetic image for this character. Kinda weird and gross.

Current leaders: Burning hands and feather fall.


There a couple of routes. Since you have so few to cast each day, some would suggest one that will last a long time so hopefully multiple fights. Others would suggest just saving them to nova on what you think will be your toughest fight of the day.

Hydraulic Push is in the same category as the Bladed Lash you suggested.

Protection From Evil to stop charm/dominate is a classic.

If you come close to dying very often, phantom hitpoints might be worth while. Though it might be better to change your tactics so you don't get in that situation as often.

Long Arm and Enlarge Person for phenomenal reach.

Ray of Enfeeblement will cause strength loss even if they make the save.

Sunder Shards might be fun since you have Improved Sunder.

Is Windy Escape legal in PFS? Might be good for those OH CRAP! moments. Just like Feather Fall.


@Jenter:
Sorry, wasn't paying attention to the racial thing on Windy Escape and PFS characters. My bad.

I just had a look at d20pfsrd and it lists Infernal Healing as one of the first level Bloodrager spells. Hope that's not an error. Don't have the ACG in front of me.

Shadow Lodge

The problem with Hydraulic Push and why I also didn't suggest Thunderstomp is that it will use his Charisma modifier.

Silver Crusade

Čemifobbar wrote:
I just had a look at d20pfsrd and it lists Infernal Healing as one of the first level Bloodrager spells. Hope that's not an error. Don't have the ACG in front of me.

Well, infernal healing was printed before the bloodrager existed, and the bloodrager's writeup doesn't include it on the spell list (unless I'm blind), so unless IH was re-printed since the ACG and added bloodrager, then the SRD must be in error.

Do remember that d20pfsrd.com is a fan site; just a bunch of folks like you and me compiling information as they understand it. Not much different than if someone made a post here on the forums and said "here's all the bloodrager spells I know of, compiled into one list".


Jenter, the Happy Swordsman wrote:
Čemifobbar wrote:
I just had a look at d20pfsrd and it lists Infernal Healing as one of the first level Bloodrager spells. Hope that's not an error. Don't have the ACG in front of me.

Well, infernal healing was printed before the bloodrager existed, and the bloodrager's writeup doesn't include it on the spell list (unless I'm blind), so unless IH was re-printed since the ACG and added bloodrager, then the SRD must be in error.

Do remember that d20pfsrd.com is a fan site; just a bunch of folks like you and me compiling information as they understand it. Not much different than if someone made a post here on the forums and said "here's all the bloodrager spells I know of, compiled into one list".

I think ACG just included spells from the Core books, ACG: Origins added many spells from the splatbooks to the Bloodrager list. I think Infernal Healing was added in origins, as were many other spells.

I am not insane enough to check every spell in Origins against d20pfsrd, but at first glance it seems to check out.

As for Spells:

I like Frostbite and Chill Touch, muliple touches makes it fun. I also like Ray of Enfeeblement, Enlarge Person, maybe

Silver Crusade

Rambear wrote:
Jenter, the Happy Swordsman wrote:
Čemifobbar wrote:
I just had a look at d20pfsrd and it lists Infernal Healing as one of the first level Bloodrager spells. Hope that's not an error. Don't have the ACG in front of me.

Well, infernal healing was printed before the bloodrager existed, and the bloodrager's writeup doesn't include it on the spell list (unless I'm blind), so unless IH was re-printed since the ACG and added bloodrager, then the SRD must be in error.

Do remember that d20pfsrd.com is a fan site; just a bunch of folks like you and me compiling information as they understand it. Not much different than if someone made a post here on the forums and said "here's all the bloodrager spells I know of, compiled into one list".

I think ACG just included spells from the Core books, ACG: Origins added many spells from the splatbooks to the Bloodrager list. I think Infernal Healing was added in origins, as were many other spells.

Snap. Oh well, don't have AC:O anyway.

Quote:

As for Spells:

I like Frostbite and Chill Touch, muliple touches makes it fun. I also like Ray of Enfeeblement, Enlarge Person, maybe

I like frostbite on a magus, where I get to add it to my weapon damage, or on a "pure caster" where I don't already have melee damage options, but on a 2HPA rageguy, I have to give up my 1d8+15 for 1d6+4. And not having Spellstrike means a GM might rule I discharge it into my sword.

Ray of Enfeeblement fails the "my DC is 12" test.

Enlarge Person takes a whole round to cast, and is therefore probably better as a potion.

Scarab Sages

Jenter, the Happy Swordsman wrote:


I like frostbite on a magus, where I get to add it to my weapon damage, or on a "pure caster" where I don't already have melee damage options, but on a 2HPA rageguy, I have to give up my 1d8+15 for 1d6+4. And not having Spellstrike means a GM might rule I discharge it into my sword.

Have you looked at the Blood Conduit? It's almost as good as a Magus for this.


True Strike can be useful from time to time and having it as a spell is better action economy than using a wand.

Silver Crusade

I can't seem to find a spell called blood conduit.

Scarab Sages

It's an archetype of bloodrager. It can swift action cast a touch spell on an unarmed attack or combat manuever.


So many options and so few spell slots! :P

There's always Magic Missile (the "tried and true" reliable sort of spell) and Ray of Enfeeblement. The ray has the distinct advantage of taking strength away from an enemy you're about to go toe-to-toe with.

Silver Crusade

Ah, I see. But that archetype would need to have been taken at 1st, plus even if I wanted to retrain into it, it doesn't stack with the Spelleater archetype I already have.


I like Blade Lash, it gives you +10 to trip and an extra 20ft of reach which is why I LOVE IT on my reach bloodrager. Sure you still provoke but as an Abyssal Blooded rager who uses a reach weapon, I could trip out at 40ft.

I suggest Tremor Blast too, again, tripping is fun and a good utility to have in combat.

My personal criteria for picking Bloodrager spells involve:
1: Nothing that has a DC (Your casting stat will usually suck)
2: Nothing that does damage (As its primary function, just hit things)
3: Nothing super situational (So few spells, so little time)
4: Nothing that relies on having a high Charisma (14 Charisma for life)

Basically I limit myself to buff and utility spells, damage is to be metted out via Hammer and if I wanted to deal damage with my spells I'd be playing a wizard.


Jenter, the Happy Swordsman wrote:

...

Quote:

As for Spells:

I like Frostbite and Chill Touch, muliple touches makes it fun. I also like Ray of Enfeeblement, Enlarge Person, maybe

I like frostbite on a magus, where I get to add it to my weapon damage, or on a "pure caster" where I don't already have melee damage options, but on a 2HPA rageguy, I have to give up my 1d8+15 for 1d6+4. And not having Spellstrike means a GM might rule I discharge it into my sword.

Ray of Enfeeblement fails the "my DC is 12" test.

Enlarge Person takes a whole round to cast, and is therefore probably better as a potion.

Get a conductive weapon and things like chill touch and frost bite start looking much more attractive.

Some people take ray of enfeeblement even with a low DC since it still chops some strength off your foe. I still don't think it is probably best for a character like yours, but it isn't a horrible choice either.

Many people say enlarge person is only good as a potion due to the casting time. However, others will say that the increased duration when cast means you are more likely to be able to cast it before the fight. Then you don't even lose that action to drink the potion.


Shield, and enlarge person would be my picks. Frostbite if you were using natural weapons.


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Jenter, the Happy Swordsman wrote:
Current leaders: Burning hands and feather fall.

Always solid choices.

Sundering Shards does look interesting, but as I recall Jenter liked to give an opponent an opportunity to surrender after getting their weapon sundered.

Icicle Dagger might be nice given every once in a while the society has people go places that normal weapons aren't welcome. Unlike Shadow Weapon it doesn't have a saving throw or SR.

Silver Crusade

ElterAgo wrote:
Get a conductive weapon and things like chill touch and frost bite start looking much more attractive.

Only if you have them as spell-like or supernatural abilities. That weapon ability doesn't interact with actual spells at all.

Quote:
Many people say enlarge person is only good as a potion due to the casting time. However, others will say that the increased duration when cast means you are more likely to be able to cast it before the fight. Then you don't even lose that action to drink the potion.

In any case, I don't think I'm in daily need of what EP gives me, so I don't think I'll spend a precious slot on it.

BretI wrote:
Sundering Shards does look interesting, but as I recall Jenter liked to give an opponent an opportunity to surrender after getting their weapon sundered.

Not to mention, spending half my spells per day just to deal 1d6 damage sounds pretty terrible.

Quote:
Icicle Dagger might be nice given every once in a while the society has people go places that normal weapons aren't welcome. Unlike Shadow Weapon it doesn't have a saving throw or SR.

An interesting point, but that's a pretty obscure situation. Probably not worth it.


Jenter, the Happy Swordsman wrote:
ElterAgo wrote:
Get a conductive weapon and things like chill touch and frost bite start looking much more attractive.

Only if you have them as spell-like or supernatural abilities. That weapon ability doesn't interact with actual spells at all.

...

Oops! Sorry, I forgot that is a house rule in one of my home groups.

Guess I'd probably recommend shield (or shock shield), feather fall, or protection from evil.

Silver Crusade

It just occurred to me that, for swarms, I think I have a chronicle sheet where I can buy a partially-charged wand of burning hands at... was it CL3? I'll have to check on that; I could always buy that and just wait until it's used up before spending a spell known on that.

So maybe blade lash and feather fall...?

Grand Lodge

I know The Confirmation has a Burning hands wand partially charged with x3 charges on it. It can be your swarm option for the first few Levels till you get more options.

Scarab Sages

If you're a two handed build, it's hard to top Shield. You could probably get away with a wand of it, though, in a spring-loaded wrist sheath. Since you'll be caster level 4, though, it's the same dilemma mentioned above for Enlarge Person. If you have Shield as a known spell, you're more likely to be able to cast it ahead of time, since you'll have a 4 minute duration that will scale. Invest in a Rod of Extend Spell eventually, and you can have a single casting of Shield span a couple of encounters in a lot of PFS scenarios. Basically, getting a Shield bonus on a martial character without using a shield is huge, so this should be on your radar even if you want to go the wand route. It offsets your rage AC penalty and then some. I've found a way to get it on most of my martials. A Wand/spell storing ioun stone for my Ninja, a Cloak of the Hedge Wizard for my Monk, and by way of Ancient Lorekeeper for my melee Oracle.

Blade Lash is a good spell. I'm not entirely sure it actually increases reach by 20 feet for the trip attack. It says you can make a trip attack against anyone within 20 feet. But it's still a good spell. Better for a Magus, I think, who can Spell Combat it, trip someone, then step up and hit them while they're prone.

I like Feather Fall. Situational spells are good when you don't really need to cast spells to be effective and when you can spontaneously cast.

Dark Archive

For the record, Thunderstomp (unlike Hydrolic Push) does not REQUIRE the use of charisma, it says "May". You would probably use strength instead, since it is significantly better.

Great at low levels for that "closing" round.

Silver Crusade

Thalin wrote:

For the record, Thunderstomp (unlike Hydrolic Push) does not REQUIRE the use of charisma, it says "May". You would probably use strength instead, since it is significantly better.

Great at low levels for that "closing" round.

Isn't blade lash pretty consistently better?

Dark Archive

Jenter, the Happy Swordsman wrote:
Thalin wrote:

For the record, Thunderstomp (unlike Hydrolic Push) does not REQUIRE the use of charisma, it says "May". You would probably use strength instead, since it is significantly better.

Great at low levels for that "closing" round.

Isn't blade lash pretty consistently better?

Yes, it is; I was just reading bloodrager spells and noticed that one too.

The greater Thunderstomp is where you get a better spell floating around, but that is about at the level where tripping starts to be worthless.

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