I'm rolling ideas around for Hell's Rebels...and it kind of came up.
Can a Devil have interests outside of House Thrune's goals, and act accordingly ?
Even to the point of assisting in the fall of Thrune ?
And unless I have missed something...the specifics of who is backing house Thrune, and why, have never really been spelled out correct ?
Devil's especially the higher level ones do not and usually will not cooperate with each other unless a stronger devil is directly controlling them. They have their own agendas and don't generally care for what other devils agenda they cross. How far will the mess with the Big A, is probably as much as the Big A will let them.
It's possible that I'm getting hung up on the "Lawful" aspect....I'm somehow associating lawful as working in unison towards common goals...
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I tend to think of Hell in Pathfinder (and Golarion) specifically working much like an Italian Renaissance court.
Everyone is concerned with position. However, there are different ways to advance.
Loyalty may exist in some cases, but should be rare. (I recall in 2nd Edition, that it is said that if Hell was laid waste, the only one that Asmodeus would bring with him would be Alastor the Grim, one of his lieutenants and his official executioner.) In most cases, loyalty is to someone more powerful or seen as more competent.
Higher level devils will expect their underlings to fight against eachother. As long as they don't interfere with the final goal of the boss, he expects them to mess up minor operations of other operatives to prove their rivals incompetence. Similarly, even Asmodeus has rivals trying to show the other devils that they can do better, and some of them will throw cogs in his works just to prove he doesn't have all his bases covered.
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I'm rolling ideas around for Hell's Rebels...and it kind of came up.
Can a Devil have interests outside of House Thrune's goals, and act accordingly ?
Even to the point of assisting in the fall of Thrune ?
You say that like Asmodeus didn't (and doesn't) have interests outside of House Thrune's goals from before baby-blood ink was set to halfling-skin paper on their contract.
Devils want to gather souls by capturing them in a bad bargain. This gives them a subject to lord over as superiors, justifying it as proper punishment for the souls exercising free will to begin with.
This behaviour however is rooted in their desire to control and rule over everything as according and fitting to their personal views and whims without concern for the health and well-being of others. A devil would love nothing more than to lord itself over all its brethren, but it has the patience or cleverness to cut its losses and go for the smaller position of power in most cases.
A devil would, if it could, take down House Thrune if it meant the noble house that he has arrangements with become the rulers of Cheliax instead.
A devil would, if it could, take down House Thrune if it meant the noble house that he has arrangements with become the rulers of Cheliax instead.
I agree, but to go so far as to assist the rebels (i.e. strongly implied to be NOT pro-devil) in overthrowing Thrune will likely be too much to chew for almost all devils. You want to undermine the guy ahead of you so that you can take his place, but not at the risk of allowing the whole pyramid scheme to collapse around you.
Subbing in another Hell-bound Noble house that is loyal to you first and not Big A is one thing, helping to overthrow Devil rule of all Cheliax in the unlikely case that it hurts Big A more than you may be a leap too far.
Character concept is for a Spirit whisperer/Wizard...who is from one of the noble houses that Thrune ruined....and who's "patron" is a Cabal Devil. He want's Thrune destroyed, just as his house was destroyed by them. Of course he wouldn't mind stepping in and filling the void either ;)
Also, street gangs and other criminal enterprises might be good models for Hell. Having a code and adhering to it would be considered important, but there is going to be a lot of cheating around the edges. One would suspect that SOME things are pretty much forbidden based on rank.
This. All of the information from RPGs about the organization of Hell is that it's kind of like the ultimate Mafia. Nobody wants to rock the boat... unless you can make a power play and sweep the whole table.
Watch some of the better rated mob shows and movies for inspiration. The Sopranos comes to mind.
Thanks much folks...I think this gives me some ideas as to handling the Cabal Devils part in all of this :)