knife master sorcerer build help


Advice

Liberty's Edge

Ok once again I come to the conclave of knowledge for help with a build. I am playing a home brew and we are starting as lvl 4 characters I want to build a knife master sorcerer. The thought would be the spells I cast are used to augment my abilities or make it hard for people to see me. The build is 20 points.
If you guys can spin an idea race don't matter I wanna see what you guys come up with and why you like it. It will help me get a idea as to how to build him thanks guys.


You'll probably have to multi-class if you want to hit anything.

Early Entry Eldritch Knight or Early Entry Arcane Archer both seem promising, as does a straight-up Magus.

My first thought, though, was that you could play a rogue with minor and major magic talents, and use the elf alternative favored class bonus for additional uses. Ice Dagger or Shadow Weapon would be fun and thematic (but not optimal) if you wanted your focus to be on melee fighting instead of spellcasting.


Play ninja and use vanishing ninja trick to be invisible?

Scarab Sages

Bloodrager perhaps? The problems with a sorcerer is a 1/2 BAB class is not a master of any weapon.

Liberty's Edge

Well my thoughts were to build him up enough to get acess to fog spells and things like that but like was said earlier a magus would be a better choice. I guess I should tell you guys what want to build my thought is to male a rogue that steals from mages and by doing so has become a spell user for him,herself. But I don't want to fall into the ninja class I want more spell flexibility then just the vanish trick(which is a quick way to piss off your dm imho)

Liberty's Edge

I hate replying to posts by phone it makes me look like a twelve year old. Lol


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So a Bookish Rogue...

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/bookish-rogue

...Knife Master...

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue -archetypes/knife-master

...is pretty much what you want, and doesn't require a lot of legalistic acrobatics (which means you still have a lot of choices within your build).

The trait Classically Trained gives you spellcraft as a class skill, and you'll need spellcraft to scribe spells into your spell book.

Also the Traveler's Spell Book, a 1 lb spell book that holds fewer spells, is thematically a good piece of equipment for a lightly encumbered, nimble adventurer-on-the-move.

Also-also, the previously mentioned favored class bonus for elf rogues makes a lot of sense here.

This is all assuming you are cool with being a rogue, building your character around this theme, and being a bit more of a generalist than most characters the boards develops; not nearly so good at _one thing_ as the typical character by focus group tends to be. The games I actually play tend to reward diversity and flexibility more than the theory-crafters and keyboard builders seem to think, though, so maybe that's a good thing?


Never saw bookish rogue before. It would be interesting if it worked more than once...

Rogue / Bloodrager / arcane Trickster maybe ?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I would definitely avoid Bloodrager into Arcane Trickster. You advance one of the weakest spell lists you could advance. May as well do Bloodrager or Arcane Trickster.

If you want BAB look at Evangelist PrC


With Major Magic as a rogue talent you can pick up Vanish as a spell...

Though completely honestly, why would you when you can play a ninja.

Sadly Bloodrager into Arcane Trickster is pretty much useless, namely because you need the ability to cast 2nd level spells which a bloodrager does not get until level 7 and you would still need more levels of rogue to qualify for the sneak attack damage.

So you are a level 10 Bloodrager 7/Rogue 3 and then you go Arcane Trickster 10...

I mean I guess it kind of works...but nor really.


Aiming for the arcane trickster PrC next level might serve you better in the long run than rogue alone and might describe your character better than sorcerer alone. Ninja 3/Sorcerer 1 with a racial spell like ability to meet the casting prerequisite is the simplest; something like rogue 1/snakebite brawler 1/sorcerer 2 gets you an extra level of casting.

Alternately the archaeologist bard archetype mixes casting and the ability to sneak and stab people pretty well.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Agreed with the Archaeologist Bard sentiment. You don't need Sneak Attack to get good DPR, especially with the bard giving great accuracy and damage.

The problem with Arcane Trickster is that it is really built for spell sneak attacks, which Knife Master weakens. Going Rogue 1/Snakebite 1/Sorc (or Wiz or Arcanist)/Arcane Trickster 1/Evangelist 10 could give great spell casting and mediocre BAB.

Alternatively, look at the rules for Red Mantis Assassin. Doesn't work with Knife Master but gives decent utilty casting.

Scarab Sages

If you don't mind cleric casting instead of arcane, cult leader warpriest gains sneak attack damage and sacred weapon to make daggers hit harder.

It's not the best warpriest archetype, but it's not terrible.


Stygian Slayer has some magic options.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If you are looking at Cult Leader Warpriest, I also recommend Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor. A bit more skill-focused and slightly different spell list.

Sovereign Court

Stalarious wrote:
...the vanish trick(which is a quick way to piss off your dm imho)

Why would it make your GM angry to use a primary class feature?

Scarab Sages

The vanish trick only allows one sneak attack per use until you get master tricks, and it's pretty limited in number of uses due to ki.

It's good for getting sneak attack when you need it, but it really doesn't make ninjas that much better than rogues alone.

Sovereign Court

Imbicatus wrote:

The vanish trick only allows one sneak attack per use until you get master tricks, and it's pretty limited in number of uses due to ki.

It's good for getting sneak attack when you need it, but it really doesn't make ninjas that much better than rogues alone.

It's also great for defense. The trick is to use vanishing trick at the end of your turn - not the beginning.

That way you're invisible during your foe's turn - and your 1st attack on your following turn is a sneak attack.


Thanael wrote:

Never saw bookish rogue before. It would be interesting if it worked more than once...

Your diction suggests the misapprehension that you can only change your spell once, rather than any time you have ten minutes and a spell book.

Grand Lodge

I would go with the Sage bloodline. It replaces Cha with Int as you casting stat, which works with the buttload of skills you can get. As for level breakdown, rogue 3/sorc 1 would be my suggestion. Elf would be a good race.

Str 10
Int 14+2
Wis 13+1
Dex 16+2
Con 12-2
Cha 10

final stats

Str 10
Int 16
Wis 14
Dex 18
Con 10
Cha 10

You could also flip Int and Wis for better perception and Will saves.


Re Bookish Rogue: Ahhhh. So you can change them by using the feat again, not by taking the feat again. Great feat. I love it. Thanks for pointing it out.

So there you go: bookish rogue, plus use UMD a lot.

Other thoughts:
- be a fetchling and use some shadow enhancing race feats.
- be a wayang with Dissolution's Child alternate racial trait for an invis like power and ties to shadow
- be another race with spell likes
- get Eldritch Heritage
- get some items with spells, such as cloak of the hedge wizard
- multiclass with/dip sorcerer or wizard
- get arcane bond (arcance bloodline sorc or wizard) and use a weapon, enchant it yourself.
- Snakebite Brawler is a +1 BAB +1d6 sneak attack dip.
- Arcane Duelist Bard gets spells and can eventually enchant his weapon and gets an arcane weapon bond.

A Knife Master is an attractive trope but the rogue and the knife master archetype are both rather weak fighters. Some Knife Master builds multiclass with the Weapon Master Fighter or Brawler Fighter to get more BAB and more bonus to the knives.

But then you want some magic too.

How martial do you want to be ? How magical ? Interested in Arcane trickster or Eldritch Knight in the long run? Or neither?
TWF or Vital Strike ?


Oh and let's find useful thematic spells:
Icicle dagger
Shadow weapon
Twilight knife (sorc 3): flank partner yay!
Blur
Vanish
Invisibility


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Perhaps this might work: Multi-class Slayer & Shadow Bloodline Sorcerer.

Better BAB with the Slayer than the Rogue and the Shadow Bloodline for a sorcerer has some funky abilities that would work nicely with a sneaky rogue or slayer type.

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