Really struggling to find a role for my Warpriest, need guidance...


Advice


Hey there everyone. So i'm in a campaign with a solid group of players, its about 60% RPG'ing and 40% combat. We all just hit lvl 5 and are using a pretty standard point setup / progression. Just a disclaimer, this is my third campaign ever so I'm by no means an expert.

I'm having a really hard time figuring out where my Warpriest fits in with this group. I feel as though everything I can do, someone else can simply do better. Here is a bit about my character:

STR: 18
DEX: 12 (buffed with Dex belt)
CON: 14
INT: 9
WIS: 18
CHA: -2

RACE: Oread
WEAPON: Dwarven War Axe: D10
BLESSINGS: Plant and Magic (see warpriest link above, scroll down)
Feats: Combat Reflexes - Power Attack - Improved Init. - Weapon Focus

My Goal: I wanted to AT LEAST be really competent with either casting or melee then use the unique aspects of the Warpriest to twist it or enhance it. At this point i'm just average at both. I hoped to use the unique features of the Warpriest but it sounds more unique on paper than it does in play.

Here is the group setup:

Druid (better caster than me)
Ninja (hits as hard as me, and more RPG opportunities)
Warrior (hits harder than me)
Summoner (better caster than me)
Warpriest (me)
Fighter (does more damage than anyone)

As it stands, my spell casting is sometimes useful but generally not needed, I hit hard, but not as hard as the warrior, sometimes the fighter, and I try to contribute with the RPG aspects but that only gets you so far when it comes to enjoyment.

Any tips on how I can improve the above? My GM said I could change anything I wanted to since this is a pretty casual campaign. I feel like my spell list is pretty limited. I can do some healing but the group generally doesn't need it much (and I also don't want to be a "healer"). When I first set out with this character, I thought I would be able to use the blessings in combination with high attack power to make a unique feeling character and it just isn't happening.

I was trying to come up with a way to really push the Combat Reflexes feat to make me a unique force in combat. I planned to use command to try and force enemies to step away, and thus provoke an attack of opportunity. I also was thinking of using Cause Fear or some other spell that also makes them disengage from me and thus, cause an attack of opportunity. This isn't the ONLY thing I want to do, really anything that makes me more useful or unique would be great.

I really need some help here. I just picked up a Masterwork Composite Longbow so I've heard a few things about ranged Warpriests.


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First thing I would suggest is to get a reach weapon.
Second thing I would suggest is to figure out how best to take advantage of your ability to buff yourself as a swift action. That is one of your major advantages over some other classes.


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I wonder how many people like me didn't read past the second paragraph of fervor. It's like they start off explaining the intricate workings of your new scooter and then end with "oh by the way you get a fighter jet too."


Will an adventuring party even pair up with someone with a -2 charisma?


...You're doing worse than the Warrior? As in, the NPC class Warrior?

First off, never use a spell that requires a save as a Warpriest. Your spellcasting is almost entirely going to be for self-buffs; Divine Favor, Blessing of Fervor, etc. etc. There's absolutely no reason you should be doing less damage than the Ninja and Warrior, and you should certainly be more durable than the Fighter.


Buff, bash, be awesome, get stuck in, try to act lively cool and confident.

Don't worry about the others. If your char isn't working, talk to a dm for a way out, and sacrifice them to a really nice bottomless pit trap and bring in a new one.


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It also sounds like you're suffering from not having a clear goal in mind for your character, which Pathfinder rewards. If you spread yourself too thin, then you'll absolutely fall behind others. Find a niche, and really focus your efforts toward it. You mentioned wanting to cast spells, but as Arachnofiend said, your spellcasting should be almost solely self-buffs or party buffs.

When combat begins, or even better, before it does, load up on a few buffs and then go to town, and definitely use that magic blessing to hit some ranged foes if you can't get to them that round! For now the fighter may continue to out damage you, but once you have some really powerful buffing spells you'll be able to outshine them in bursts.

Now... What god do you worship? I have no idea who grants the Plant and Magic domains in addition to a Dwarven Waraxe (though I suppose Warpriests don't HAVE to focus on their deities' favored weapon, it just seems WRONG not to though.)


Melkiador wrote:
I wonder how many people like me didn't read past the second paragraph of fervor. It's like they start off explaining the intricate workings of your new scooter and then end with "oh by the way you get a fighter jet too."

Over half the players I talk to are like "What? You can do that?" I really like the WP but the fervor description is something like this.

"We're giving you a complimentary eraser, pencil, bottle of water, lunch, and hat. These abilities amount to very little and are essentially window dressing although the lunch may fill you up but that's not enough to bother reading the rest of this paragraph. You may alternatively give up these abilities in exchange for the ability to go super saiyan."

As to the OP. I wrote a guide on the reach WP which makes high use of combat reflexes. The build is pretty good and I'm playing 2 of them right now one in a PFS game and the other in home games.


Don't do ranged, you don't have the Dex for it. Your wisdom is much higher than it needed to be because you're a lv6 melee caster. You want to wade into battle using swift actions to buff yourself to be a beast.


Hello dear!

It sounds as thought you have a good plan, but lack specifics.

To make the best use of Combat reflexes, you really need more Dex.

A 14 is fine.

You could lower your Wisdom some for that, as you don't need a really high wisdom to get all your spell levels (6th).

Check out Undones guide, as well as the Guide to the Reach Cleric by Brewer.

You need a reach weapon, longspear is perfect.

Combine with your Plant blessing to entangle, awesome sauce!

Druid (better caster than me)
Ninja (hits as hard as me, and more RPG opportunities)[
Warrior (hits harder than me)[
Summoner (better caster than me)
Warpriest (me)
Fighter (does more damage than anyone)

The casters are doing the things they do, they will be better at them than you.

Your spells are to buff yourself and your allies, stay away from stuff with saves.

The melee characters are doing their thing as well, they will be better as well.

Use your abilities to amp them up and buff yourself, then follow behind with your spear.

Sacred weapon is your bread and butter for attack, combined with Plant, and combat reflexes, you will lock down your enemies and have the meat shields destroy them.

Don't try and fill a role that is covered already, full casters and full BaB characters will always be better at that.

As for the ninja, when they can't flank or go invisibly, much suck is to be had.

Hope this helps!


Quote:
You need a reach weapon, longspear is perfect.

As a dwarf he should use the dwarven long ax or long hammer.

Scarab Sages

He's an oread, not a dwarf. Still, 95% of all reach weapons are martial. Lucerne hammer is my favorite, but Glaive is fine is you don't like the x2 crit profile of the Lucerne hammer.


Wait someone is playiing a warrior?


Imbicatus wrote:
He's an oread, not a dwarf. Still, 95% of all reach weapons are martial. Lucurne Hammer is my favorite, but glaive is fine is you don't like the x2 crit profile of the lucurne hammer.

Right just saw the dwarven war ax and forgot.


Who is your deity and what is their favored weapon?

You have a high enough wisdom that you do a monk dip and pick up Crusader's Flurry: if your deity has a reach weapon, this could be really, really nice (maybe Maneuver Master archetype).

Some long term advice:
Don't waste your time comparing each individual thing you can do with some other character. It isn't fair to you to compare your casting with another caster and your damage output to a melee build. You have to compare your overall character to each other overall character: Sure, you don't do as much damage as the fighter, but you are much better caster than he is, right?

Specialized builds will always do better at what they specialize it, by definition. Think about what you want the character to do, then build for that and ignore everyone else. If you want to be the best at something, you might be better off picking pick a role your party doesn't already have.

Lastly, if you can't be OMG THE BEST!! at something, can you be OK with being "the guy who can do anything"?

Lugh Lamfada, Irish deity:

From here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugh
Lugh Lamfada joins the Tuatha Dé Danann[edit]
As a young man Lugh travels to Tara to join the court of king Nuada of the Tuatha Dé Danann. The doorkeeper will not let him in unless he has a skill with which to serve the king. He offers his services as a wright, a smith, a champion, a swordsman, a harpist, a hero, a poet and historian, a sorcerer, and a craftsman, but each time is rejected as the Tuatha Dé Danann already have someone with that skill. But when Lugh asks if they have anyone with all those skills simultaneously, the doorkeeper has to admit defeat, and Lugh joins the court"


I agree with most of the points raised here, but I'm not really sure what can be done to help his current character without using some retraining rules. Having combat reflexes when you have a low dex and no reach is a tough place to correct from.


Warpriests are the halfway point between clerics and fighters to you're going to do worse than either in their chosen specialties. However, you'll do better in combat than the cleric and cast better spells than the fighter.

Is that -2 charisma for real? How is that even possible?

What level are you? If you're only a level or two in, your GM might let you choose an archetype if you have not already and then you might be able to specialize a bit more.

What kind of campaign are you playing? What are you fighting? Perhaps specializing a bit more for your environment will help you feel better about your character.


what is also going to matter is picking the right spells, and the flavor of your campaign, are you normally getting in one encounter per day or when you do get into combat they are one right after another to the point where you need to rebuff and are using your spell slots? if its the first option where you are only having one encounter a day you should be able to swift action nova and buff yourself to be better than the fighter by the second or third round of combat not to mention you get free weapon/armor enhancements that the fighter has to pay for and will let you invest elsewhere.

as the above have said you don't need combat reflexes so see if you can retrain that into another feat

what also depends on what your DM is allowing, i found a neat little 3rd party 1st level spell (don't remember the name) that raises your BAB by 2 up to your HD so you start gaining full use at 5th lvl and especially useful at 6th when it gives you your second attack like any regular full BAB char


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Sorry for the late reply back.

First, a gigantic THANK YOU, such a helpful community.

We just hit lvl 5. I think I may have messed up my Charisma score. As for feats, I can easily retrain combat reflexes to something else. The GM won't care as he knows this is a new class and I'm not exactly a seasoned player.

Campaign: The campaign is a custom one, we are having about 1-2 encounters for every 4 hours of play so its pretty average I would guess. We're in a mix of both city and natural settings, about 50/50 on that too.

I believe my idea of how to play this character was just wrong from the start. I didn't give much thought to mostly buffing myself, which I realize now is a huge mistake.

That being said, if I pick up a reach weapon and can retrain out of combat reflexes (does the command person / combat reflexes combo not seem worth it)? Any recommendations on what to pick up?

Also, what are the better buff spells? I would prefer to focus on buffing myself before the group.

Thanks again for the awesome feedback.


If you're doing the Warpriest right, we can expect the Fighter player to sign onto the forums in a couple of months and complain about how they're being totally outclassed by you.

At 5th level you've got access to 1st and 2nd level spells. Your key spells are going to be Divine Favor (1st), Bull's Strength (2nd), and Weapon of Awe (2nd). Bull's Strength is better than Weapon of Awe in general, but does not stack with the strength belt; if you already have an enhancement bonus to strength then go with Weapon of Awe. One swift action will have you a bit better than the Fighter; two will leave them feeling inferior, and rightly so.

As for feats, if your deity has a good sacred weapon then Weapon of the Chosen (including improved and greater feats) are great for a Warpriest. Warpriests are also uniquely suited to using Vital Strike, because with the way their bonus feats work the power of their Vital Strikes outpaces their iteratives.


not sure if anyone posted this

but this is definitely helpful if you don't know what spells/feats to pick it gives you alot of options depending on the build you want to make

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fAITTzF0hu2mCB-_5vSJGw697JGdSXIOWy9VMp5 wyzY/pub

This is the guide by undone mentioned above


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Shadow Star wrote:
Campaign: The campaign is a custom one, we are having about 1-2 encounters for every 4 hours of play so its pretty average I would guess. We're in a mix of both city and natural settings, about 50/50 on that too.

Reach weapons thrive in pretty much every setting besides 10 by 10 rooms.

Shadow Star wrote:
I believe my idea of how to play this character was just wrong from the start. I didn't give much thought to mostly buffing myself, which I realize now is a huge mistake.

As I mention in the guide fervor is the single most powerful mechanic you can add to a class. It's effectively quicken spell for personal buffs.

Shadow Star wrote:
That being said, if I pick up a reach weapon and can retrain out of combat reflexes (does the command person / combat reflexes combo not seem worth it)? Any recommendations on what to pick up?

Do not ever cast a spell which requires a save from opponents. Get a reach weapon and combat reflexes. Then just do the 5 foot step dance and get your attacks. Command isn't a good use of your standard.

Shadow Star wrote:

Also, what are the better buff spells? I would prefer to focus on buffing myself before the group.

Thanks again for the awesome feedback.

You want this trait because your primary buffs are luck bonuses.

Spell levels
Level 1) Divine favor is your buff for a very very long time.
Level 2) Bull str is good while you don't have a str belt but once you do this slot should be resist energies, defending bones, and other defensive buffs.
Level 3) Channel vigor is king if you're not getting hasted.
Level 4) Divine power and blessing of fervor are spicy

More spells are listed in the guide mentioned above.


(1) - some great advice here from everyone above - remember the "unique" thing that's special about Warpriest is the swift actions - fervor lets you cast a buff spell on yourself as a swift action and still take all your other actions - that's a big deal. Clerics would need two turns to do what you can do in one. Your sacred weapon is also not something to ignore - it's a swift action that gives you a lot of flexibility!

(2) - when comparing how much damage you're doing to everyone else, just remember that tactics on the field are important, too! Sometimes where you are standing is much more important than how much damage you are doing (blocking a charge lane to a caster, providing flanking to the ninja, etc.). It's not a race to see who can kill the baddies the fastest (I don't know your game, so I can't fairly criticize, but in general, if combat feels like a race to see who kills the baddies the fastest, the team isn't really being strategically challenged).

(3) - your "rpg" is what you make it. Do you have to be beating the Fighter's damage to roleplay calling upon the power of your deity, waging in to midst of battle and reveling in the defeat of your enemies?


pickin_grinnin wrote:
Will an adventuring party even pair up with someone with a -2 charisma?

Would an adventuring party be too afraid to approach someone with a +2 charisma modifier because they're too beautiful? Stop trying to shoe horn stat rules to fit your feelings.


Lastoth wrote:
pickin_grinnin wrote:
Will an adventuring party even pair up with someone with a -2 charisma?
Would an adventuring party be too afraid to approach someone with a +2 charisma modifier because they're too beautiful? Stop trying to shoe horn stat rules to fit your feelings.

I think the poster is (jokingly, I assume) questioning the literal -2 CHA, which a character can't legally have. I'm guessing OP copied the modifier instead of the CHA itself, or deleted the number and left the racial modifier. Typo, either way.


It totally went over my head, good catch on pickins part :-D


Don't try to outshine your allies. Instead, make them shine brighter.

Consider
1. Group buffs like bless or prayer at the beginning of combat.
2. Teamwork feats: Outflank would be good for you and the ninja (since they'll want to be flanking anyway). It'll give you both a damage boost and will also take advantage of your combat reflexes.
3. If you do decide to go reach and find that you're not getting hit very often, the spell Shield Other works well in conjunction with your swift action self-heals. Cast it on the one most likely to take damage and keep them up longer.


Again, thank you all for such great advice. I have to look into all of this tonight and i'm sure I'll have some follow up questions.

As for the sacred weapon. I'm using a custom deity and picked the axe as the favored weapon with a Neutral alighment.


Gilbin wrote:

Don't try to outshine your allies. Instead, make them shine brighter.

Consider
1. Group buffs like bless or prayer at the beginning of combat.
2. Teamwork feats: Outflank would be good for you and the ninja (since they'll want to be flanking anyway). It'll give you both a damage boost and will also take advantage of your combat reflexes.
3. If you do decide to go reach and find that you're not getting hit very often, the spell Shield Other works well in conjunction with your swift action self-heals. Cast it on the one most likely to take damage and keep them up longer.

The Warpriest is specifically designed for self-buffing; bless is a waste of a spell slot when you can swift action divine favor. There are many classes that shine brightly in a support role, but the Warpriest is a pure hammer through and through.

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