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I acquired both APs during the Golem Sale a couple years back. Partly in hopes of whittling down the Second Darkness AP list so they could eventually redo it. ;)
Honestly, I don't care for elves, and just a little bit more in Drow. But there's more recent updating of Drow in other products, The Darklands Revisited for example.
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I'm wondering if there are any Adventure Path's the rest of the community would enjoy being able to pick up in a collection, or if I'm just one lone strange little bloke for wanting this.
There's not much point in hardcovering the Pathfinder rules APs.
But I would purchase and enjoy any updated hardcover editions of the other three 3.5 ones (Crimson Throne, Second Darkness, and LoF).
Have you not seen, Curse of the Crimson Throne hardcover comes out in September. :-)
I forget if it was brought up, would updated pdfs be doable? perhaps with just creature stats and stuff like gambling rules?
I forget if it was brought up, would updated pdfs be doable? perhaps with just creature stats and stuff like gambling rules?
Given the effort that would go into redoing the writing and layout, almost certainly having to change the artwork to fix the text, etc., at that point they may as well do a full reprint. It's not like you could just update stat blocks, do a find/replace on skills, and be done with it.
I'd like LoF in Pathfinder hardcover.
Would theoretical Second Darkness hardcover be basically a new ap at least half of it?
Well anyway, still hoping for that because second darkness kinda makes a loose trilogy with other two earlier aps. In the "three in row that all have loose references to each other" way
It would certainly be a more significant revision than Rise of the Runelords or Curse of the Crimson Throne.
Rise of the Runelords needed some minor tweaks to foes, and got some additional content, but was primarily a task of combining the volumes and editing them with updates to rules. Curse of the Crimson Throne, like RotRL, has few known issues that need correction, so it is likely to be very similar in terms of what changed.. we will see what it looks like when it is released.
Second Darkness has some more fundamental issues, like the poor reaction to the surface elves and the greater sympathy for the drow. In addition, when moving from Book 2 to Book 3, there's a note that the XP comes up short, and the GM should fill in encounters in that span to personalize the campaign and bring the PCs up to where they should be.
A revision would likely need to fill that XP gap, which is new content even before *adding* new content (because the GM was expected to add new content there previously). It would at least need to examine how to present the surface elves differently, and the drow less sympathetically.
Given that the poor sales of Second Darkness make such a compilation/ revision an unlikely project, I wonder if a patronage/ partnership deal would work? Paizo collaborated with Open Design (now Kobold Press) on "From Shore to Sea" previously.. I wonder if a similar collaboration project could be the answer for a revision of Second Darkness?
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Paizo, and open letter to all:
Second Darkness.
The priority should be to fix up the old OGL APs first, starting with Second Darkness (since Curse is already on schedule) and then go after the PFRPG ones which have the right combination of "sold out + fan-loved + have the most new rules not incorporated."
Riddleport = Mos Eisley of Golarion, which easily provides solid reasons for both rogues/smugglers/etc (profit/tragic loss motives) and Dudley Dorights (save people/defeat evil) to come together.
First Darkness/Earthfall is one of the most unique and interesting things about Golarion's history.
If enough gamers agree with the above statement, I'd hope that the combination of Drow + that story element is more than enough to get "mental buy-in" to relaunch it.
Possibly Reynolds can outdo himself on the anniversary edition cover art, just as the writers will outdo themselves in refining this gem, and the anniversary edition will sell like gangbusters?
Thanks,
Zardan
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If they were willing to make more significant changes to bring Second Darkness up to its full epic potential that'd be the clear choice IMO. If they would just be reprinting it with tweaks to convert from v3.5 to Pathfinder like RotRL & CotCT then there isn't much reason to do so for ANY of the subsequent APs until they have mostly sold out.
I give Kingmaker better odds than SD...
The kingdom rules got updated, it's extremely well-liked, and any polishing it needs is in the detail arena, rather than huge honkin' rewrites...
But I think with Starfinder needing staff and resources, we shouldn't count on any AP redo as a sure thing.
^To expand on that, part of what might make their decision of which one to redo might be how easy it is. So, although Second Darkness needs an Anniversary Edition the most, it is hard to do (as well as not being the most sold out), and therefore will probably not be next on the list. Kingmaker sounds like it will be very easy to do (not even needing 3.5 to Pathfinder conversion), and judging from posts above seems to be the most sold out, so it is a decent candidate for the next one. Legacy of Fire is somewhere in between (not needing a rewrite, but needing 3.5 to Pathfinder conversion, and not quite as sold out), so logically it might appear somewhere in between on the list of APs to do an Anniversary Edition for.
It is worth remembering that there may not even BE another such compilation; Paizo has often said so.
The 3.5 APs are the prime candidates. Legacy of Fire is fighting hard for "least liked AP" (as far as I can tell), with Second Darkness winning and Serpent's Skull coming in third.
That Legacy of Fire is somewhat more sold-out than Second Darkness, but not completely, so that puts LoF ahead of SD as a candidate, since being 3.5 puts them both ahead of Kingmaker.
Kingmaker may be sold out, but the changes to the Kingdom rules are external to the AP.. they're available on the PRD for anyone who wants to use them in preference to the versions in the AP itself, so re-writing the AP to use them is not necessary. Otherwise, the AP is already Pathfinder, which makes it less of a priority to collect and update.
Legacy of Fire may not be as disliked as Second Darkness, but it does seem to be a close second. That implies that it may need as much revision, or almost as much, as Second Darkness. That it is closer to being sold out gives it a bit of an edge over Second Darkness.
Since neither SD nor LoF is actually sold out, though, that could just mean that there are no candidates that meet the criteria for an Anniversary Edition at all.
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Jade Regent only assumes that RotRL has taken place - however, since Shalelu appears in Second Darkness, it can make continuity awkward. ^_^
I assume that Jade Regent assumes that Second Darkness happened, I don't know what happens in Second Darkness, but Jade Regent's Shalelu write up mentions her getting revenge on dragon who killed her mother(which confuses me greatly since wasn't that dragon killed by her step-father? Twice?) so I assume thats what her cameo in Second Darkness involves.
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Okay, I decided to do googling because I was bothered by apparently same dragon dying thrice somehow
I found mention of dragon who died twice, but that had son that appeared in Second Darkness? So is Jade Regent's Shalelu backstory a continuity error since it says "she was able to help kill the same green dragon responsible for her mother’s death" which is untrue if she helped kill the dragon's spawn?
Okay, I decided to do googling because I was bothered by apparently same dragon dying thrice somehow
I found mention of dragon who died twice, but that had son that appeared in Second Darkness? So is Jade Regent's Shalelu backstory a continuity error since it says "she was able to help kill the same green dragon responsible for her mother’s death" which is untrue if she helped kill the dragon's spawn?
Not necessarily.
We know nothing about the exact circumstances why Verchazmia attacked Crying Leaf a second time after her resurrection, but she might have been motivated by her spawn, Razorhorn, who Shalelu might help kill in SD.IF Razorhorn is part of the motivation and therefore responsible for Verchazmia attacking Crying Leaf the second time, then he is also responsible for Shalelu's mothers death even though he isn't the same dragon who killed her.
Now that someone mentioned Spawn, i think that should get a cameo in Pathfinder. Either as a plot somehow or as a character option!
With all the other Marvel/DC stuff getting a book and a GenCon special, leaving Spawn out would be discrimination!
That fits a lot more into all things Asmodeus and Cheliax!
I would love to see Kingmaker released as a box set with maps and such for building your kingdom.
Okay, I decided to do googling because I was bothered by apparently same dragon dying thrice somehow
I found mention of dragon who died twice, but that had son that appeared in Second Darkness? So is Jade Regent's Shalelu backstory a continuity error since it says "she was able to help kill the same green dragon responsible for her mother’s death" which is untrue if she helped kill the dragon's spawn?
If I recall correctly, the dragon "died twice" because it had been Raised or Resurrected at some point.
I actually bought all of Second Darkness and Legacy of Fire when they were selling for $6 a pop during the Golem Sales.
So really. You want SD to have a print compilation? Buy the hard copies. People are urging for this compilation... make it worth Paizo's while.
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A little overview for your information:
Numbers of physical (mint) AP copies left in Paizo´s warehouse:
IN ORDER OF APPEARANCE:
Rise of the Runelords: 50-198 issues.
Curse of the Crimson Throne: 1000-1997
Second Darkness: 6000+
Legacy of Fire: 1200-2495.
Council of Thieves: 2250-4495.
Kingmaker: 0!
Serpents Skull: 375-1346.
Carrion Crown: 250-499.
Jade Regent: 751-1522.
Skull and Shackles: 1775+-2597+
Shattered Star: 2275-4594.
Reign of Winter: 2850+-3747+
Wrath of the Righteous: 4000+-4998+
Mummys Mask: 2750-5494.
Iron Gods: 2350-4744.
RANKED:
1. KINGMAKER - 0 left
2. RotR - 50-198 left
3. Carrion Crown - 250-499 left
4. Serpent's Skull - 375-1346 left
5. Jade Regent - 751-1522 left
6. Cot Crimson Throne - 1000-1997 left
7. Legacy of Fire - 1200-2495 left
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If anything, Jade Regent needs a sequel and a prequel as well as sideline stories!
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If anything, Jade Regent needs a sequel and a prequel as well as sideline stories!
I believe there is a prequel, it's called Rise Of The Runelords.
Wait! There are two! The We Be Goblins Quadrilogy exists too
Honestly, Kingmaker hardcover isn't needed because updated kingdom building rules already exist .-. And its sandbox campaign anyway, I don't think it needs new content.
I could not disagree more. I am more likely to purchase a Kingmaker hardcover than any other. This is, in my opinion, the hands-down finest AP that Paizo ever produced. By there is still plenty of room for expansion and re-editing.
Tie in the BBEG earlier, get Dudemeister to write up additions for each book and flesh out Mivon a bit more and yore on your way to a masterpiece.
If anything, Jade Regent needs a sequel and a prequel as well as sideline stories!I believe there is a prequel, it's called Rise Of The Runelords.
Wait! There are two! The We Be Goblins Quadrilogy exists too
That might be seen as prequels and they probably are in a way, but they don´t really tell the whole and to me most interesting part of the story, the part more focussed and coming from Tian Xia and Minkai.
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Consider me as having no interest in Second Darkness.
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I remain hopeful for a Second Darkness AE when it comes time for me to run that series, but if not, I can make do with the books that are already extant. Any time my players say anything about the drow, I'm quick to reply with "they don't exist." Gotta lay down that belief early.
I remain hopeful for a Second Darkness AE when it comes time for me to run that series, but if not, I can make do with the books that are already extant. Any time my players say anything about the drow, I'm quick to reply with "they don't exist." Gotta lay down that belief early.
I'm in the same position. I know I'll GM SD in a couple of years, and even though I already started planning and think I know how to work it out, having a SD AE would make things so much easier
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Consider me as having no interest in Second Darkness.
Whereas I would give a hardcover Kingmaker a pass.
Real talk, which AP do I think DESERVES a hardcover compilation so that all of its greatness is in one place? Hell's Rebels.
Obviously, not going to happen for a long, long time, if ever, but if we're talking about what is desired...
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Consider me as having no interest in Second Darkness.Whereas I would give a hardcover Kingmaker a pass.
Real talk, which AP do I think DESERVES a hardcover compilation so that all of its greatness is in one place? Hell's Rebels.
Obviously, not going to happen for a long, long time, if ever, but if we're talking about what is desired...
I will also pass on Kingmaker.
But then, I have all the originals, in all their glory. :-)