Some of your house rules that you like best


Homebrew and House Rules

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thegreenteagamer wrote:
Yeah, but short of guns, which can reflavored as special piercing crossbows, or magic altogether, in which case why are you playing a high fantasy game, what mechanic sans flavor could not possibly fit a setting? Even the previously mentioned alchemist could be re flavored as an essence mage that drinks bottled pure magic and ignores the pseudo science of alchemy.

In another thread, we nearly reflavored a gunslinger as an actualy slinger (sling user) with a bit of mechanical change (I say nearly, because it does require some mechanical change to fit a sling).

I like the alchemist idea. I was thinking along the lines of a fireball thrower (with small range) for the bombing aspect, or a "rogue with magical talents" for the vivisectionist.


Guys, maybe make another thread?

Oh, I housruled Vital Strike working on a charge and with Spring Attack, but never got to test it.


thegreenteagamer wrote:
Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert wrote:
StabbittyDoom wrote:
bookrat wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:
bookrat wrote:

One thing that I guess is kind of a house rule but really shouldn't be:

I actively encourage my players to change the flavor of classes in order to make the mechanics work for the type of character they want to role play. For example, one of my players once converted the ninja class into a gypsy. The ninja's ki pool was flavored as gypsy magic, shurikens became small throwing knives. All the mechanics were identical, just the flavor was different.

STOP RUINING MY CAMPAIGN WITH YOUR ANIME CLASS

Joking aside, I've shared that experience with many a GM who bans the ninja class for the exact reason you stated. I've yet to meet one who would allow it as a gypsy, and they can never seem to give a reason why other than they don't like the oriental setting. They've also never explained how the gypsy culture is in any way resembling the oriental.

But I do love reflavoring or refluffing classes and abilities to try and make characters in unusual ways. I've been saying for a while, "don't let the prewritten fluff deter you from making the character you want to play."

I've always hated people who ban things because they don't like the flavor. IMO, if you don't like it, then you probably just don't understand it and should spend like 15 minutes reading about it. If you still don't like it, then just say "okay, but people think it's weird and will treat you with some suspicion for it". Banning is VERY harsh, IMO, even when applied for actual balance reasons. (And if it isn't the flavor the player is after, reflavoring should be considered a no-brainer.)

Define ban. I have my own campaign setting. If I dislike something, I don't include it in the setting. Is that a ban?

Yep.

If knights don't exist, fine, but let them still play the cavalier or paladin, but call it something else. Banning for flavor is silly, as classes don't have to be...

Wait, we are talking about classes only? I don't have any class bans from Paizo for any reasons. My flavor bans come down on spells (can't bring back dead characters or teleport beyond visual range) or in the fact that the race selection lacks a lot of stuff that is in the ARG.


thegreenteagamer wrote:
Yeah, but short of guns, which can reflavored as special piercing crossbows, or magic altogether, in which case why are you playing a high fantasy game, what mechanic sans flavor could not possibly fit a setting? Even the previously mentioned alchemist could be re flavored as an essence mage that drinks bottled pure magic and ignores the pseudo science of alchemy.

If they really wanted to play it, and came up with a reason like that, it's fine.


You ban resurrection?

Wow.

Uh. How do you manage to keep everything balanced when a player dies and everyone gets his stuff...

How do you keep a player who liked his old character invested?

Verdant Wheel

icehawk333 wrote:
How do you keep a player who liked his old character invested?

Tuned to the right spec, players who play PCs in a world where death is permanent must be invested in their characters.

Seriously considering adopting that rule. Is there a thread for it?

Maybe Resurrection and Reincarnate are available just not as PC spells. Like during an eclipse only. Or upon completing a quest for the god who collected the departed's soul. Or an artifact that deems the fallen hero worthy...


DominusMegadeus wrote:
Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert wrote:
StabbittyDoom wrote:
bookrat wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:
bookrat wrote:

One thing that I guess is kind of a house rule but really shouldn't be:

I actively encourage my players to change the flavor of classes in order to make the mechanics work for the type of character they want to role play. For example, one of my players once converted the ninja class into a gypsy. The ninja's ki pool was flavored as gypsy magic, shurikens became small throwing knives. All the mechanics were identical, just the flavor was different.

STOP RUINING MY CAMPAIGN WITH YOUR ANIME CLASS

Joking aside, I've shared that experience with many a GM who bans the ninja class for the exact reason you stated. I've yet to meet one who would allow it as a gypsy, and they can never seem to give a reason why other than they don't like the oriental setting. They've also never explained how the gypsy culture is in any way resembling the oriental.

But I do love reflavoring or refluffing classes and abilities to try and make characters in unusual ways. I've been saying for a while, "don't let the prewritten fluff deter you from making the character you want to play."

I've always hated people who ban things because they don't like the flavor. IMO, if you don't like it, then you probably just don't understand it and should spend like 15 minutes reading about it. If you still don't like it, then just say "okay, but people think it's weird and will treat you with some suspicion for it". Banning is VERY harsh, IMO, even when applied for actual balance reasons. (And if it isn't the flavor the player is after, reflavoring should be considered a no-brainer.)

Define ban. I have my own campaign setting. If I dislike something, I don't include it in the setting. Is that a ban?

Is the fact that I do not feel technologists are not of an appropriate flavor for the game really all that bad?

If you ban it for flavor, why can't it be reflavored?

In the case of classes, I actually did do just that. Psionic flavor is a no, but we have a rune magic skin over the whole Psionic system. In several cases I also changed the flavor of a class I do like to better fit the world. I loved the Witch from day one, but my Witches are classified as Divine casters, because that explains why Clerics and Inquisitors wanted to kill them (Divine Magic is the magic of the Divine beings, who taught it to the church and bade only the church use it. Witches developed their own way of using it, but are outside the church's control. Witch hunts ensue.). I have quite a few of those sorts of flavor changes.

Now, the most commonly banned thing from me is races, but just re skinning the mechanics isn't an option because I don't use the RAW racial attributes, so the mechanics wouldn't be balance.


icehawk333 wrote:

You ban resurrection?

Wow.

Uh. How do you manage to keep everything balanced when a player dies and everyone gets his stuff...

How do you keep a player who liked his old character invested?

Character death isn'tt common, and I do allow resuscitation with magical healing within at most a few minutes of death.


rainzax wrote:
icehawk333 wrote:
How do you keep a player who liked his old character invested?

Tuned to the right spec, players who play PCs in a world where death is permanent must be invested in their characters.

Seriously considering adopting that rule.

Save that they will likely lose interest when they charecter they liked died.

Or, simply play charecters they are detached from.


Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert wrote:
icehawk333 wrote:

You ban resurrection?

Wow.

Uh. How do you manage to keep everything balanced when a player dies and everyone gets his stuff...

How do you keep a player who liked his old character invested?

Character death isn'tt common, and I do allow resuscitation with magical healing within at most a few minutes of death.

Oh. Yeah, alright.

That makes sense.

Verdant Wheel

you rolls the dice, you takes the chances...

the whole "I am only happy playing if my character never dies" is an interesting need to bring to the game table.


rainzax wrote:

you rolls the dice, you takes the chances...

the whole "I am only happy playing if my character never dies" is an interesting need to bring to the game table.

That kidna isn't what I mean.

Most charecters can get raised at high levels, after a lot of personal investment.

But removing that seems like you're taking away that time of personal investment, leaving them with a new charecter they aren't nearly as invested in.

Combat has it's risks. Always will.

That's why getting raised isn't cheap.

Liberty's Edge

Honestly, I can actually sympathize a bit with the anti-resurrection thing. I wouldn't ban it, but I can sympathize.

Banning resurrection would seem extreme, but I have seen the opposite end of that spectrum and that's no good either. The opposite being that resurrection is just a matter of subtracting the requisite cost from your share of the loot. Death has absolutely no meaning, barely even being a temporary setback.

A good compromise, IMO, is to let the character stay dead for one "encounter". Not a full-party-worthy encounter, mind you, nor even necessarily a combat one. Just some kind of significant story scene. Perhaps even have the dead player(s) take over an NPC for the scene or have other NPCs comment on the missing character and how they died. Resurrection may be an option, but unless a surviving PCs shtick has to do with resurrection it seems a bit cheap just to skip to the "they're back!" part.

Also, sometimes a PC just needs to stay dead for story reasons, but in that case the DM should ask for permission for a perma-kill ahead of time and get them to agree to it.


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Since this is the house rule thread, I will say that, while I do prefer perma-death (sorry, but I like death to be ultimate and inviolate), I do love resuscitation. I even got the idea from real life: if someone's heart stops, but you get it restarted within a few minutes, you might be able to preserve their life. I went with the exact same logic, just with healing magic. If you can get the dead character's HP above their death threshold within a few minutes of death, you can bring that character back. After a few minutes, it's just too late. It nicely reconciles perma-death and being able to keep characters, since a few minutes gives you at least 30 rounds.

The visual of a Paladin or Cleric defibrillating somebody with healing magic is also just plain awesome.


StabbittyDoom wrote:

Honestly, I can actually sympathize a bit with the anti-resurrection thing. I wouldn't ban it, but I can sympathize.

Banning resurrection would seem extreme, but I have seen the opposite end of that spectrum and that's no good either. The opposite being that resurrection is just a matter of subtracting the requisite cost from your share of the loot. Death has absolutely no meaning, barely even being a temporary setback.

A good compromise, IMO, is to let the character stay dead for one "encounter". Not a full-party-worthy encounter, mind you, nor even necessarily a combat one. Just some kind of significant story scene. Perhaps even have the dead player(s) take over an NPC for the scene or have other NPCs comment on the missing character and how they died. Resurrection may be an option, but unless a surviving PCs shtick has to do with resurrection it seems a bit cheap just to skip to the "they're back!" part.

Also, sometimes a PC just needs to stay dead for story reasons, but in that case the DM should ask for permission for a perma-kill ahead of time and get them to agree to it.

I can agree with this.

I argue both sides, as I find both extremes to be flawed. Naturally, this makes me look like an ass. I might be one, really.

I guess I just like debate.


Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert wrote:

Since this is the house rule thread, I will say that, while I do prefer perma-death (sorry, but I like death to be ultimate and inviolate), I do love resuscitation. I even got the idea from real life: if someone's heart stops, but you get it restarted within a few minutes, you might be able to preserve their life. I went with the exact same logic, just with healing magic. If you can get the dead character's HP above their death threshold within a few minutes of death, you can bring that character back. After a few minutes, it's just too late. It nicely reconciles perma-death and being able to keep characters, since a few minutes gives you at least 30 rounds.

The visual of a Paladin or Cleric defibrillating somebody with healing magic is also just plain awesome.

I like this.

It makes death rare, and as such, removes most of the need for Rez magic.

Let's you have dramatic permadeath, too.

What would you do with someone who wanted to play a brightness seeker or rein cared Druid?

Liberty's Edge

icehawk333 wrote:
Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert wrote:

Since this is the house rule thread, I will say that, while I do prefer perma-death (sorry, but I like death to be ultimate and inviolate), I do love resuscitation. I even got the idea from real life: if someone's heart stops, but you get it restarted within a few minutes, you might be able to preserve their life. I went with the exact same logic, just with healing magic. If you can get the dead character's HP above their death threshold within a few minutes of death, you can bring that character back. After a few minutes, it's just too late. It nicely reconciles perma-death and being able to keep characters, since a few minutes gives you at least 30 rounds.

The visual of a Paladin or Cleric defibrillating somebody with healing magic is also just plain awesome.

I like this.

It makes death rare, and as such, removes most of the need for Rez magic.

Let's you have dramatic permadeath, too.

What would you do with someone who wanted to play a brightness seeker or rein cared Druid?

The resuscitation angle is definitely a nice balance between "they always come back" and "it sucks to lose a character to a lucky crit". I do wonder how that works if you get MEGA killed though (like, cut in half). Perhaps have a "nope" point of -CON + -Max HP?

As far as classes with specific death/resurrection-related abilities, I say let 'em keep 'em. It's part of what makes them special. As long as very few people can do it, and they can't really do it for others, it seems fine to me (even if I *were* to otherwise ban resurrection).


I haven't dismembered a PC since I started using this rule, so I'm not sure. I'd have to seriously think on the Reincarnated Druid. Haven't noticed that archetype before, but my initial reaction is to only allow it if it never actually dies. Like, maybe the soul doesn't work like a normal soul, so Death can't take it unless it is weakened (been reincarnated once within 7 days already) and it tends to just reform into new life soon after? So, a Reincarnated Druid isn't actually dying when it reincarnates.

Partial house rules for magic items. I know how the system works, but I still need to compute the numerical values. Runes are super flavorful for making magic items (Aside from consumable magic items that anyone can make [except Rune Mages cannot make potions], Rune Mages [DSP Psionics] do the magic item crafting), but magic items need power. In fact, making a magic item isn't all that hard. It's powering it that causes an issue. Having to recharge an item every single day just isn't feasible. So rune mages figured out a way to tap into the mana of the item's wielder (Even a Fighter has mana. Mana is internal magic that governs magic item usage. Ki is what happens when someone develops an extra reserve of mana that they can use for their own abilities instead of as a battery.) to keep it charged. How much mana you have determines how much magic gear you can carry and how powerful it can be, and your character level determines mana. Actually getting magic items isn't difficult or expensive, but you have to have enough mana to actually use the thing. So, wealth by level is largely meaningless, and loot isn't really a factor.

On the subject of reflavoring, I am happy to allow it, but I want things to be reflavored in a way that fits my campaign setting. Then again, I describe my favorite country elsewhere as:

I focus on "North America", and had a medieval colonial era. My favorite country is based off of California (where I grew up) along with the Pacific Northwest and Hawaii. I imagine it as a former "Spanish" and then "British" colony that got a lot of its initial settlers from "China", to the point where their language isn't "English", it's a creole of "English" and various "Chinese" dialects, with a fair amount of "Japanese", "Arabic", "Vietnamese", "German", "Spanish", "Italian", and "Hawaiian" influence. Recently, several other ethnic influences have been creeping in, with "Indian", "Thai", "Javanese", and Southern Nyamban (I use the Nyambe setting as my Africa analog) being the current face of immigration. We have "Athabascan", "Salish", "Chumashan", and "Penutian" tribes, as well as "Hawaiians", whos populations were devastated before and during colonization and have a history of being persecuted. I plan a more involved role in society for these indigenous peoples than throwing them on reservations, but I haven't figured out what it is yet.

That is just one country. I have others.

The setting is Victoriana/Old West with greater international influence and magitech instead of steampunk. That means the magic level is pretty high, and we have stuff like railroads, even though medieval weapons and early firearms (though we don't have black powder, but rather alchemist's powder) are still the standard weapons (Gunslingers can cobble together highly experimental versions of advanced firearms at higher level, but they are epic maintenance hogs and aren't safe, so only Gunslingers get to have them.). Visual supernatural abilities are definitely in use. The Victorian, Old West, California Colonial, and various ethnic visuals are legion, as are the steampunk visuals, even though magic is the catalyst of industrialization rather than steam.

If you can reflavor something to fit the above tone, it should be able to fit in the setting. As you can see, the flavor of the setting really isn't too restrictive. There is a lot you can fit into it.


Azten wrote:
Guys, maybe make another thread?

Why? We're taking about house rules in a house rule thread, which has literally brought on suggestions and ideas for other house rules. You can't get more on topic than that.


Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert wrote:

Since this is the house rule thread, I will say that, while I do prefer perma-death (sorry, but I like death to be ultimate and inviolate), I do love resuscitation. I even got the idea from real life: if someone's heart stops, but you get it restarted within a few minutes, you might be able to preserve their life. I went with the exact same logic, just with healing magic. If you can get the dead character's HP above their death threshold within a few minutes of death, you can bring that character back. After a few minutes, it's just too late. It nicely reconciles perma-death and being able to keep characters, since a few minutes gives you at least 30 rounds.

The visual of a Paladin or Cleric defibrillating somebody with healing magic is also just plain awesome.

I've been wanting to bring back pre-modern medical knowledge to the game. Strong belief that people think with their gut or heart. Death is believed to be when you stop breathing, not when the heart stops or when brain activity stops. Tons of pseudoscientific medicine all around, like the belief in miasmas and phlegm. Maybe make homeopathy a bit more popular for street vendors or bring in phrenology as a way to determine alignment.


Hama wrote:
Smart idea. I'm gonna do it!

1. A whip is a farm tool, not a weapon.

2. Combat expertise requires Int 14

3. Improved (Disarm etc.) provokes an AoO if you fail the attempt.

4. Do not track mundane arrows & bolts (how many times did Legolas use 6 arrows three-hundred times?)

And the most important House Rule in my home campaign:

Multi-class characters must keep their classes within 2 levels of the other(s).

Core PFS won't solve the multi-class abuse that defines the PFS problem for me. Multi-class abuse is the single biggest fun-killer for me as a PFS GM.

You can still, in PFS Core, multi-class Barbarian-1/Wizard-1(Universalist) and any other class you like and you're a game-breaking glaive-throwing raging monster that no PFS game is written to deal with.


I only have one house rule. Magical weapons and armor always resize to their user as a part of their magic. Otherwise playing a small character in most published material means never getting anything fun.


Shaun wrote:
I only have one house rule. Magical weapons and armor always resize to their user as a part of their magic. Otherwise playing a small character in most published material means never getting anything fun.

I'm fairly certain that used to be an actual rule in the old editions. It's also one I use in pathfinder.

Paizo Employee

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thegreenteagamer wrote:
Yeah, but short of guns, which can reflavored as special piercing crossbows, or magic altogether, in which case why are you playing a high fantasy game, what mechanic sans flavor could not possibly fit a setting? Even the previously mentioned alchemist could be re flavored as an essence mage that drinks bottled pure magic and ignores the pseudo science of alchemy.

I'm fine with gunslingers, but I've actually been considering a reflavored version that slings wands (or an archetype to actually interact directly with the wand rules). Give them cantrips and you have most of the wizards in Harry Potter, actually.

Cheers!
Landon


One of my favorite house rules:

My Epic Play Guide

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Taking away resurrection actually destroys investment in characters, and leads to rolling up Bob the Fighter #9, younger brother of Bob the Fighter #8. That's because death can hit fast and arbitrary, and if you can die from a single failed save without the ability to come back, you don't bother to invest in a backstory or build or whatever.

You just end up cloning, moving gear over and continuing play with no investment in the PC. It becomes a tactical game instead of an RPG.

The Willingness of others to spend time/effort/resources to bring you back from the dead is actually one of the things that binds an adventuring group together.

==Aelryinth

Verdant Wheel

Aelryinth wrote:
You just end up rezzing, moving gear over and continuing play with no investment in the PC. It becomes a tactical game instead of an RPG.

changed one word.


bookrat wrote:
Shaun wrote:
I only have one house rule. Magical weapons and armor always resize to their user as a part of their magic. Otherwise playing a small character in most published material means never getting anything fun.
I'm fairly certain that used to be an actual rule in the old editions. It's also one I use in pathfinder.

Older editions (prior to 3.0) didn't have size categories for weapons or armor. A Halfling wielding a short sword did the same d6 dmg as a Human wielding a short sword.


rainzax wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:
You just end up rezzing, moving gear over and continuing play with no investment in the PC. It becomes a tactical game instead of an RPG.
changed one word.

I can agree with this to a degree.

When back-to-life magic is too easy to obtain, players make stupid decisions. They stick around fights longer than they should, take totally unreasonable risks, and take actions that cross far beyond the line of "heroic" to the realm of the foolhardy.

There has to be a risk of some sort of permanent death, or there is little to no risk/reward scale for the players in decision making, especially in combat.


Saldiven wrote:
bookrat wrote:
Shaun wrote:
I only have one house rule. Magical weapons and armor always resize to their user as a part of their magic. Otherwise playing a small character in most published material means never getting anything fun.
I'm fairly certain that used to be an actual rule in the old editions. It's also one I use in pathfinder.
Older editions (prior to 3.0) didn't have size categories for weapons or armor. A Halfling wielding a short sword did the same d6 dmg as a Human wielding a short sword.

Weren't shortswords one-handed weapons for halflings though? So it was basically what a small longsword is now?


The solution to that is the total party kill. I have killed more than one party in order to impress upon them the need to play smart.

The secret is to make the events persistent. when everyone rerolls their character into a world where their previous failure had real consequences, it motivates them to play smart and stay alive to bring down the villain.

Liberty's Edge

Zander Liteshadow wrote:

The solution to that is the total party kill. I have killed more than one party in order to impress upon them the need to play smart.

The secret is to make the events persistent. when everyone rerolls their character into a world where their previous failure had real consequences, it motivates them to play smart and stay alive to bring down the villain.

You don't even need that. Just take a lower CR and play them damned smart so that it's *almost* a TPK, then reveal the CR of the creatures at the end.

Tucker's Kobolds get respect. Tossing Erinyes at a level 4 party of melee characters does not.


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I very nearly killed a party of 3 with one well built NPC whose CR was equal to the parties average level. By taking advantage of Spells/SLA's, and the terrain. the only thing that saved them was a pair of bad dice rolls.

I play my NPC's 'the right way' meaning I build and equip them the way they would be equipped if they were a living breathing entity with a life of its own. And when they come into contact with the PC's they don't just fight because its a combat encounter, they fight to survive, and more importantly they fight to win. Not because I want to win, or beat the players or have them lose, but because to do anything less invalidates their struggle against evil and cheapens the campaign as a whole.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

rainzax wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:
You just end up rezzing, moving gear over and continuing play with no investment in the PC. It becomes a tactical game instead of an RPG.
changed one word.

Someone else has to rez you. If they don't, you don't come back. That's the entire point.

If nobody can rez you, you change Bob VII to Bob VIII on the sheet, and the same thing happens...except now you don't even have a backstory, because it's not worth generating one. You have EVEN LESS investment in the character then resurrection magic being available.

I'll take rezzing with costs by friends to trotting out the clones who are born to die any day.

==Aelryinth


Well, that's why I introduced a resuscitation mechanic when I banned resurrection. Once a soul passes on, it cannot be raised, resurrected, or reincarnated by any means whatsoever. However, it takes a few minutes after death before the soul departs. If you can get the character's HP above the death threshold in that timeframe, they can be revived. Since every minute is 10 rounds, which is a lot in this sort of emergency, Bob is much more likely to be revived than lost permanently. End result: perma-death is very much a thing, but PCs are rather unlikely to suffer it if they aren't making a lot of tactical blunders.


one thing ive tried that so far hasn't been a problem is completely removing ability score prereqs from feats.

Verdant Wheel

I guess what I like about the death=death rule is that, whereas it is easy to take an extreme opinion ("resurrection trivializes play" vs "no resurrection trivializes play"), this rule dares to look for a middle ground.

Does this rule strike that balance? Anybody use this houserule and find that it does/doesn't? Suggested tweaks?

What about maintaining a character tree? (a la Dark Sun)? Even if it was just a single back-up character or two?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert wrote:
Well, that's why I introduced a resuscitation mechanic when I banned resurrection. Once a soul passes on, it cannot be raised, resurrected, or reincarnated by any means whatsoever. However, it takes a few minutes after death before the soul departs. If you can get the character's HP above the death threshold in that timeframe, they can be revived. Since every minute is 10 rounds, which is a lot in this sort of emergency, Bob is much more likely to be revived than lost permanently. End result: perma-death is very much a thing, but PCs are rather unlikely to suffer it if they aren't making a lot of tactical blunders.

So, what you are basically doing is forcing the characters to carry around spells that work on someone below the negative HP threshold? The only one I can think of is Breath of Life, and its 5th level. The difference between it and Raise Dead is you have to use Breath right now, and Raise Dead has the one minute casting time, but can be used within days.

Or are you allowing normal cure spells to work on people that are 'dead'? In effect, giving them infinite negative hp for a short period of time?
Resurrection allows use on non-mortals.
Reincarnate is totally impossible to use in your system, it's got a ten minute casting time.
How does this rule interact with things like Slay Living and Power Word: Kill that simply kill you off?

==Aelryinth

Silver Crusade

Aelryinth wrote:
Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert wrote:
Well, that's why I introduced a resuscitation mechanic when I banned resurrection. Once a soul passes on, it cannot be raised, resurrected, or reincarnated by any means whatsoever. However, it takes a few minutes after death before the soul departs. If you can get the character's HP above the death threshold in that timeframe, they can be revived. Since every minute is 10 rounds, which is a lot in this sort of emergency, Bob is much more likely to be revived than lost permanently. End result: perma-death is very much a thing, but PCs are rather unlikely to suffer it if they aren't making a lot of tactical blunders.

So, what you are basically doing is forcing the characters to carry around spells that work on someone below the negative HP threshold? The only one I can think of is Breath of Life, and its 5th level. The difference between it and Raise Dead is you have to use Breath right now, and Raise Dead has the one minute casting time, but can be used within days.

Or are you allowing normal cure spells to work on people that are 'dead'? In effect, giving them infinite negative hp for a short period of time?
Resurrection allows use on non-mortals.
Reincarnate is totally impossible to use in your system, it's got a ten minute casting time.
How does this rule interact with things like Slay Living and Power Word: Kill that simply kill you off?

==Aelryinth

My interpretation was that normal healing spells worked. See Tenacious Survivor for reference.

Death effects are easy: anything that kills you outright normally puts your HP to -con, so I guess in that system it's the same with HP being set to right at "dead".

Liberty's Edge

Aelryinth wrote:
Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert wrote:
Well, that's why I introduced a resuscitation mechanic when I banned resurrection. Once a soul passes on, it cannot be raised, resurrected, or reincarnated by any means whatsoever. However, it takes a few minutes after death before the soul departs. If you can get the character's HP above the death threshold in that timeframe, they can be revived. Since every minute is 10 rounds, which is a lot in this sort of emergency, Bob is much more likely to be revived than lost permanently. End result: perma-death is very much a thing, but PCs are rather unlikely to suffer it if they aren't making a lot of tactical blunders.

So, what you are basically doing is forcing the characters to carry around spells that work on someone below the negative HP threshold? The only one I can think of is Breath of Life, and its 5th level. The difference between it and Raise Dead is you have to use Breath right now, and Raise Dead has the one minute casting time, but can be used within days.

Or are you allowing normal cure spells to work on people that are 'dead'? In effect, giving them infinite negative hp for a short period of time?
Resurrection allows use on non-mortals.
Reincarnate is totally impossible to use in your system, it's got a ten minute casting time.
How does this rule interact with things like Slay Living and Power Word: Kill that simply kill you off?

==Aelryinth

Not sure how they would run such a rule, but here's mine:

* Normal cure spells work all the way down to -CON + -Max HP. At -CON, but before the -CON + -Max HP total, the character appears dead unless you make a DC20 Heal check, and shows up as dead under most spells (such as Deathwatch). In addition, all qualities of the creature cease functioning unless they explicitly work when dead.
* A creature with regeneration does not count as dead regardless of negative hit point total, so all of their qualities continue to function and they show as alive regardless of negative hit point total (unless regeneration is suppressed, of course; they must be in the normal "alive" range for suppressed regeneration to come back on its own).
* Raise Dead, Resurrection, and True Resurrection don't exist except as a reference point for other rules that may use them.
* Reincarnation is as above, but could be conceivably modified to suit other purposes (perhaps it works like Forced Reincarnation, but willing targets only, making it useful on those who are in the "dying" state but won't recover for some reason, such as an anti-healing curse).
* Re-read Slay Living. It's just damage now. Power Word: Kill is banned for being too absolutist (it either works or it doesn't, based solely on the rather arbitrary check of hit point total). Absolute "you die" abilities are not suitable for a world where death has a grey area.


Aelryinth wrote:
Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert wrote:
Well, that's why I introduced a resuscitation mechanic when I banned resurrection. Once a soul passes on, it cannot be raised, resurrected, or reincarnated by any means whatsoever. However, it takes a few minutes after death before the soul departs. If you can get the character's HP above the death threshold in that timeframe, they can be revived. Since every minute is 10 rounds, which is a lot in this sort of emergency, Bob is much more likely to be revived than lost permanently. End result: perma-death is very much a thing, but PCs are rather unlikely to suffer it if they aren't making a lot of tactical blunders.

So, what you are basically doing is forcing the characters to carry around spells that work on someone below the negative HP threshold? The only one I can think of is Breath of Life, and its 5th level. The difference between it and Raise Dead is you have to use Breath right now, and Raise Dead has the one minute casting time, but can be used within days.

Or are you allowing normal cure spells to work on people that are 'dead'? In effect, giving them infinite negative hp for a short period of time?
Resurrection allows use on non-mortals.
Reincarnate is totally impossible to use in your system, it's got a ten minute casting time.
How does this rule interact with things like Slay Living and Power Word: Kill that simply kill you off?

==Aelryinth

You can do the job with a Cure or Heal spell, but all the healing must come from one spell. This means that if the dead individual is at -25 HP and had Con 13, and the spell heals 10 HP, the character does not to up to -15 HP, but rather stays at -25 HP. If the spell heals 15 HP, however, the character jumps up to -10 HP and is once again alive. Generally, a dead character will lose 1 HP every 4 rounds. Slay Living does HP damage, so it isn't a problem, and I never take games to a high enough level to get access to 9th level spells. Fast healing and the like stop functioning after death.

Raise Dead, Resurrection, and Reincarnate are all outright banned, except for the Reincarnate Druid's class feature (Reincarnate Druids don't die when they reincarnate, though. Their soul is too slippery for Death to grasp, so they go back into the world. Seriously considering a Rogue version of this, because flavor. "I'm so quick, sneaky, and agile, not even Death can catch me!".). The basic idea is that once Death takes a soul, this is literally nothing anyone can do to ever get it back. It is far beyond the power of mortals. However, after the heart stops it takes a few minutes for the soul to leave the body and be claimed by Death. In that window, regular healing magic can return a character to life.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

So, you're using infinite negative HP. After all, a Heal spell could work when someone is at -220 Health.

Mmmm. Well, it just forces the party to have some powerful healing magic on hand. Also, to wait around at least X minutes to make sure things stay dead and nobody sneaks up to land a cure on them and save them.

==Aelryinth


Aelryinth wrote:

So, you're using infinite negative HP. After all, a Heal spell could work when someone is at -220 Health.

Mmmm. Well, it just forces the party to have some powerful healing magic on hand.

A party generally already has Heal and the most powerful Cures available, though.

Quote:

Also, to wait around at least X minutes to make sure things stay dead and nobody sneaks up to land a cure on them and save them.

==Aelryinth

I'm not that kind of GM. The PCs having to wait above every corpse because me reviving it is a serious concern is something I would find too jarring, so I don't use that tactic with any frequency. If I ever do it, it'll be notable and surprising that such a thing happened (Which, in my opinion, is good storytelling. If you want to surprise the players with underhanded tactics, use those tactics very sparingly, and they will be all the more surprising when they are used.).

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

My additions to magic item creation.

1. To create an item you must have in addition to the standard requirements, you need a formula for the item in it's final form. Any upgrades since then require an upgraded formula.

2. "Creator must be" requirements are not bypassable. i.e. "Creator must be an elf". "Creator must be the High Priest of the Temple of Elderon".


I have a death house rule that I want to try one day, but haven't had the chance. It's intended to make dying more cinematic and actually ending up dead more rare.

When a creature is dropped into negative hp, they gain the dying condition; however, they remain conscious, but completely helpless (and probably coughing up blood and whispering some last words), until they reach hp equal to negative Con score. Below negative Con, they're unconscious. They can have the dying condition for a number of rounds equal to 2d6+Con modifier before they are actually dead, regardless of hp total. (ex. A PC could be dropped to -150 and he still has 2d6+Con rounds before he's actually dead.) This should be rolled by the GM and kept from players to increase dramatic tension. Any healing that causes the creature to regain even 1 hp removes the dying condition, but the creature remains unconscious until it is above its negative Con score and still helpless until it has a positive hp total. (Separate, but related...) The creature then has the shaken condition for a number of rounds equal to the number of rounds that it had the dying condition.

Again, I've never actually playtested this, but it sounds way more dramatic than just dropping. I especially love the idea of no one actually knowing how long the character has. Also, the 2d6 rounds is kind of arbitrary. Too long? Too short?


Here are some of mine:

  • Rolled stats (3d5 drop lowest +8, yes I have actual d5s), or a generous array. Choose which to use after rolling.

  • Favoured class bonuses are not restricted by race. A player may choose which alternative to have, and once chosen it is fixed.

  • HP per level up is 1d4 + (8 for barbarian, 6 for full bab, 4 for 3/4 bab, 2 for 1/2 bab) + Con mod.

  • Light weapons, and some one handed have the "Finessable" property, this allows the wielder to use Dex instead of Str for attacks.

  • The Weapon Finesse feat allows Dex instead of Str to damage when using a Finessable weapon.

  • Multi-classing is not allowed without express permission and good in-story reason. Accommodations can be made to incorporate features of prestige classes or other classes of interest into the character's current class.

  • Magic operates on a spell point system, which reduces overall casting (compared to vancian), but allows much greater flexibility. Additionally, Sorcerer (or other spontaneous) may add meta-magic without increasing casting times, while Wizard (or other prepared) may either prepare with meta-magic, or add while casting by adding a round to the cast time.

  • Movement, ranged attacks, and spell casting do not provoke attacks of opportunity.

  • A full attack is a standard action.

  • Rather than being sold for half value, an unwanted magic item can be reduced to magical essence by anyone with the appropriate item creation feat. This essence can be used in place of gold/components in the creation of new magic items. The equivalent value of the essence is the value of materials used to create it. (This one doesn't actually change any mechanics, you still get 1/2 value on unwanted items, this just changes the feeling of how magic items are made)

  • Scarab Sages

    The all-around best way to roll ability scores, I realized, is 1d12+6 - that way, each possible score from 7 to 18 is equally probable.

    Some house rules I'd use:

    - Sorcerer spells are Intelligence-based; No Sage Bloodline, but allow the Arcane Dart power it offers to be taken by any Sorcerer as a substitute for any other 1st-level Bloodline Power.

    - Barbarians may be any alignment.

    - The detect alignment spells only detect creatures if they have the relevant alignment as a subtype – a Paladin can sense the presence of fiends as easily as ever, even if they've chosen to abandon the Lower Planes, but he has no idea that his trusted superior in the church is as rotten as they come.

    - Knowledge (History) is at least as good as Knowledge (Local) for information on Humanoids.

    - Survival checks may be made in urban areas – "getting along in the wild", in this case, means living like a homeless person, and has a DC of 15.

    - The cure and inflict spells belong to the school of Necromancy, as do most other spells with the [Healing] descriptor (some exceptions are possible).

    - Instead of simply dealing no damage, whips take a -2 penalty to damage rolls against targets with armor or +3 or better natural armor. Enchanted whips with an effective enhancement bonus of +2 or better ignore this penalty.


    Small sized Tieflings have 20 ft. movement rather than 30 ft.


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    Favorite house rule:

    Add BAB to Initiative.

    Other favorites:

    Replace the Spell Resistance mechanic with a monster trait of the same name that grants +4 to save vs. spells.

    All characters gain +2 skill ranks/level.

    Light armor provides DR 1/-, Medium armor provides DR 2/-, Heavy armor provides DR 3/-

    Light helms grant +1 AC vs. critical confirmations, Great helms grant +2 AC vs. critical confirmations but enforce a -2 penalty to Perception checks.

    Aid Another is a standard action that grants its bonus (+2 base) to all attacks or to AC for an entire round vs. a single target (but only that target) or to any one saving throw. You must be adjacent to or within combat reach of your ally in order for the benefits of Aid Another to apply.
    BAB is added to Initiative for all combatants.

    Lesser actions can be substituted for greater actions; i.e. a swift action instead of a move action or a move action instead of a standard action. Quicken spell allows spells to be cast as a move action and increases the effective spell level by +3.

    Natural attacks can provoke AoO's as normal, even if the attacker has reach and the provoked does not.

    Characters who meet the prerequisites gain the following feats for free: Power Attack, Combat Expertise, Deadly Aim & Echew Materials.

    Instead of the feat Weapon Finesse, all light weapons, projectile weapons and select others (such as the whip and the rapier) gain the Finessable weapon trait, and automatically use Dexterity instead of Strength to determine attack bonus.


    whenever i ether GM or play with one who uses critical fumble rules for rolling natural 1 in an attack i use (or offer to use) the following:

    - when rolling a natural 1 before using the critical fumble. the attacker has a cahnce of 5% per bab to just miss. this is to offset the fact that highly trained fighters who get more attaks per round actuly tend to criticly fumble more then a less trained level 1 fighter.(this mean a level 1 fihgter has 5% to just miss any natural 1 attack he does before using the critical fumble tables. and the more experienced level 20 has only 1% if he rolls a 100)

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