Aiding a Grappler who has Grab?


Rules Questions


So, say a character (A) wants to aid his ally (G) who has the Grab special ability. How would this be done and when would the aid another check be made?

Please, no house rules. I plan on using this strategy for a PFS group.

Rules that Apply:

Aid Another wrote:

In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you're in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent's next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack.

You can also use this standard action to help a friend in other ways, such as when he is affected by a spell, or to assist another character's skill check.

Grapple: Multiple Creatures wrote:


Multiple creatures can attempt to grapple one target. The creature that first initiates the grapple is the only one that makes a check, with a +2 bonus for each creature that assists in the grapple (using the Aid Another action). Multiple creatures can also assist another creature in breaking free from a grapple, with each creature that assists (using the Aid Another action) granting a +2 bonus on the grappled creature's combat maneuver check.
Readying an action wrote:


The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun. Readying is a standard action. It does not provoke an attack of opportunity (though the action that you ready might do so).

You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, anytime before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character's activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action. Emphasis mine.

My questions are-

1 - If A aids G with a grapple, is A rolling a grapple check or an aiding another check?
1a - If it is a grapple, is the DC still 10 or would A also need to beat the enemy's CMD?
1b - would A need Imp. Grapple to avoid an AoO when aiding G to grapple?
1c - if the aid was successful, is A now part of the grapple? Does A take on the grappled condition?

2 - Can A aid G while using another weapon, or, does A need to have both hands free (as per grappling rules)?

3 - Assuming A goes first in initiative, in what order would the various move/ready actions take place for A to assist G in their grapple check?

Thanks!

Sczarni

(A) would need to make an attack roll against AC 10, not a grapple check against an unknown CMD. Aiding Another in this way represents distracting your opponent in combat by harrying and assaulting them, and making it more difficult to defend against your ally.

(A) would not gain the grappled condition, as (A) was only using the Aid Another action.

(A) can use the Aid Another action on their turn, and (if successful) the bonus will carry over to (G)'s next turn. (A) could also ready an action to Aid Another when (G) attempts their grapple check, which would move (A)'s initiative to just before (G)'s.

Having the Grab ability makes no difference in this situation.


Thanks. That's exactly how I thought it worked...but, I wasn't sure. My confusion was because aiding a grapple is mentioned within the grapple section of the rules, not the Aid Another section. Probably some editing mistake...

Since aiding in a grapple is a standard Aid Another check, (A) can use any weapon (including a reach weapon) to aid (G)?

And, the Helpful trait (+4 Aid Another) would apply, as normal?

Sczarni

LibraryRPGamer wrote:
(A) can use any weapon (including a reach weapon) to aid (G)?

Any melee weapon.

LibraryRPGamer wrote:
And, the Helpful trait (+4 Aid Another) would apply, as normal?

Indeed.

So, yes, a Halfling with a Whip is really great at things like this.

Shadow Lodge

To add onto nefreet's answer:

You would need to Ready the Aid Another action to trigger on the Grab attempt if you want it to specifically help the grapple CMB--if you only Aid Another, the bonus would go to the next melee attack and not any subsequent attacks (like the grab). ("If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent...")

Sczarni

Ah. Indeed. I threw out the "Grab" portion as irrelevant, but yes, if (G) is making two attack rolls (1st being a melee attack, 2nd being the Grab), then (A)'s only option would be to ready to assist the grapple check.

Sorry about that.


Good catch. Thanks for the clarification.

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