In a world where cities are run by level 15 badasses, would there really ever be a peasant uprising? The power disparity between these two individuals is so great, that a L1 Commoner is essentially not even a consideration for a character of sufficient level. So would anyone really rise up against a character of sufficient known power?
Pretty much, yeah. That's why these settings have Chosen Ones.
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When the Commoners get tired of their level 15 overlords, they group up into Gargantuan-sized swarms that do automatic damage within reach and attempt to grapple and pin the overlord.
Not saying they'll succeed, but every Overlord worth her salt would do well to avoid creating these swarms.
Of course, if you kill everyone, you won't have much of a country left to run. Especially if the rest just say screw it and leave, or decide death is better than serving your whims.
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Of course, if you kill everyone, you won't have much of a country left to run. Especially if the rest just say screw it and leave, or decide death is better than serving your whims.
That's why you turn them all into undead servants, ya big silly!
If you want to go by how things would be in a novel then high level characters dont get to fall 200 feet nor swim in lava so yes. If you go strictly by game mechanics which is not how the world really is, but just an abstraction then probably not.
I don't follow the comics too closely, but I've heard that, at least in some universes, Doom is indeed a benevolent leader of his people. If he didn't have that complex about Richards, he'd be a pretty rockin' Lawful Neutral Overlord.
This comes up against not just the realism wall (level 6 or so?) but also the superhero wall (level 15?). A level 15 badass running a city is basically Dr. Doom in his private country. He has robot duplicates to run it for him while he's gone, robot police, the whole shebang. He's a (moderately) well prepared caster. His citizens have absolutely no chance of beating him (nor would they want to, he's good to them). It would take another superhero level person (15+?) to stand a chance. And that's fine, that's why we have so many spares.
Actually in D&D/PF novels they don't follow the rules mechanics, which are not good for storytelling to be honest. If Drizzt who was well above level 15 were to fall 3000 feet he would die. When he was well above level 7 a fire shield spell would have killed him had someone(maybe Jarlaxle) not saved him.
So when someone ask questions like this they have to decide if they are using the game's abstraction as the basis, or how it would play out in a novel.
I don't follow the comics too closely, but I've heard that, at least in some universes, Doom is indeed a benevolent leader of his people. If he didn't have that complex about Richards, he'd be a pretty rockin' Lawful Neutral Overlord.Generally true. Dude's got issues, not the least of which is narcissism in the extreme. But frankly between the two, I'd cast Richards as the one closer to Evil. Outside of their vendetta Doom has actively enriched the lives of those around him. Sure, he did it by being a benevolent tyrant, but Latvaria's standard of living is something insane, as long as you don't mind celebrating Doom's Day once a year (yes, that is a holiday for them). Richards keeps his tech to himself.
Really, set aside his issues with Richards and Doom might as well have written the Evil Overlord List.
If Drizzt who was well above level 15 were to fall 3000 feet he would die. When he was well above level 7 a fire shield spell would have killed him had someone(maybe Jarlaxle) not saved him.To be fair, I believe Stoneskin was involved too, and DR wasn't so easy to break then.
There are other examples of high level characters dying by normal means. Basically the novels don't follow the game rules. Some of them who were high level were stabbed once and died. You are not going to kill a high level character with one hit in the game.
So once again you have to decide if you are deciding as an author or as someone using game mechanics when you ask these questions. Neither way is wrong, but you need a consistent base to work from.
You are not going to kill a high level character with one hit in the game.
Lots of sneak attack dice + Con poison. :D
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You are not going to kill a high level character with one hit in the game.Lots of sneak attack dice + Con poison. :D
I have never seen sneak attack and poison kill anybody ever, higher than level 10.
But anyway, I would be more worried about lovers or people related to other high level adventurers. "Uncle Felix, I know you just killed the great wyrm bazaraphon, why don't you come back and take care of our tyrant overlord?"
Uncle Felix is most likely a murderhobo optimized adventurer and he knows that killing level 15 tyrant overlord will be full of loot.
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I don't follow the comics too closely, but I've heard that, at least in some universes, Doom is indeed a benevolent leader of his people. If he didn't have that complex about Richards, he'd be a pretty rockin' Lawful Neutral Overlord.
There was one point where he controlled the world, and it was pretty much a utopia. But you're right, one iota of Richards' presence and he gets real nasty.
It's kind of staggering how much of a prick Richards is when you really look at it. The only explanation for him not solving everyone's problems is that he's a selfish jerk.
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In a world where cities are run by level 15 badasses, would there really ever be a peasant uprising? The power disparity between these two individuals is so great, that a L1 Commoner is essentially not even a consideration for a character of sufficient level. So would anyone really rise up against a character of sufficient known power?
This is a good reason why you shouldn't have stupid-powerful NPCs running around like that.
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It's kind of staggering how much of a prick Richards is when you really look at it. The only explanation for him not solving everyone's problems is that he's a selfish jerk.
It's like wizards in the Harry Potter setting. "Sure we brain-fry muggles' memories from time to time causing permanent damage. Sure a dark lord rises up and slaughters tens of thousands of muggles every generation or so. Sure some wizards kill and/or maim muggles because they think it's funny. But if they knew about us, they'd bother us all the time wanting us to heal their fatal illnesses with a wave of our wands! We could mind you, but it'd be so time consuming!"
It's kind of staggering how much of a prick Richards is when you really look at it. The only explanation for him not solving everyone's problems is that he's a selfish jerk.
Or ... stories derive from conflict. If nobody has problems, no conflict, no stories, Marvel Comics goes out of business.
Yes, I know, that's the meta-answer, not the IC-answer. :)
It's kind of staggering how much of a prick Richards is when you really look at it. The only explanation for him not solving everyone's problems is that he's a selfish jerk.Or ... stories derive from conflict. If nobody has problems, no conflict, no stories, Marvel Comics goes out of business.
Yes, I know, that's the meta-answer, not the IC-answer. :)
You mean Bruce Wayne shouldn't devote a small portion of the money he spends on being Batman to the Gotham Police Department so they can afford to be adequately staffed, armed, and of fit morale due to an acceptable paycheck? For shame!
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You mean Bruce Wayne shouldn't devote a small portion of the money he spends on being Batman to the Gotham Police Department so they can afford to be adequately staffed, armed, and of fit morale due to an acceptable paycheck? For shame!It's kind of staggering how much of a prick Richards is when you really look at it. The only explanation for him not solving everyone's problems is that he's a selfish jerk.Or ... stories derive from conflict. If nobody has problems, no conflict, no stories, Marvel Comics goes out of business.
Yes, I know, that's the meta-answer, not the IC-answer. :)
Because history has proven that spending more money on government stuff makes it work better...
Oh wait... :P
Besides - even if he averages 5 mil a year on being Batman (probably rather high), that'd only end up being $100 or so per cop if Gotham is as big as NY.
You mean Bruce Wayne shouldn't devote a small portion of the money he spends on being Batman to the Gotham Police Department so they can afford to be adequately staffed, armed, and of fit morale due to an acceptable paycheck? For shame!It's kind of staggering how much of a prick Richards is when you really look at it. The only explanation for him not solving everyone's problems is that he's a selfish jerk.Or ... stories derive from conflict. If nobody has problems, no conflict, no stories, Marvel Comics goes out of business.
Yes, I know, that's the meta-answer, not the IC-answer. :)
Because history has proven that spending more money on government stuff makes it work better...
Oh wait... :P
Besides - even if he averages 5 mil a year on being Batman (probably rather high), that'd only end up being $100 or so per cop if Gotham is as big as NY.
Ya, despite all the spending clearly our military is working worse now then ever. Oh wait.
5 mil a year? Have you seen how often that guy changes Batmobiles? Each one of those has got to be in at least 10 mil, with all the stuff they can do. And the jets. And repair. Maintenance. New outfits and gadgets that somehow keep up with what's beyond new technology each year. Powering the Batcave. Somehow preventing GPD or the Gotham Power Company find out exactly how much juice he's using to power the Batcave (it would light up like a marijuana grow-house on the grid), which however he's doing that, can't be cheap. Funding the JLA's little space base doesn't seem cost-effective. I dunno, man, if he's dropping only 5 mil a year on being Batman, he's got a hell of a discount going on.
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I dunno, man, if he's dropping only 5 mil a year on being Batman, he's got a hell of a discount going on.
Considering that everything comes from his company - he's getting everything at cost. And the variety of different batmobiles etc is probably more a function of different incarnations of Batman than him buying 87 different versions.
(And the start-up costs would have likely been more than 5 mil.)
JLA would be far more - but when you bring in the JLA, it's needed to fight off alien invasions etc. (Though really - the whole JLA idea is kinda dumb.)
Honestly, I believe the wider the disparity between those in charge and the bottom rung of society, the greater the odds of rebellion activities occuring. If fearing the response from powerful overlords prevented rebellions from occurring, there would never any rebellions ever -and we know this is not true. Look at feudal Japan, the lower classes were heavily oppressed by the Shogunate government, not even being allowed to bear weapons, nor much wealth, and the samurai opposition was hugely skilled and equipped to deal with peasants. Despite that peasant revolts did occur with some frequency.
As an example - the parts for the F-22 were shipped in from 49 different states.
Because you need a part made in all of the congressional districts of all the members of the appropriations committee in order to keep the weapons system funded.
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As an example - the parts for the F-22 were shipped in from 49 different states.Because you need a part made in all of the congressional districts of all the members of the appropriations committee in order to keep the weapons system funded.
Yep. It's all pork. I'm not saying that military inefficiency is the fault of the military. But it's there nonetheless, in the military and any other government organization. (Like all of the of cold war era bases which are still open only because their closure would hurt the local economy in some congressman's district.)
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The thing people seem to be forgetting here is that level is based purely on accomplishment, not birth or status.
Historically, most peasant revolts failed rather definitively unless they had a competent and charismatic leader of some sort, as they fell apart completely due to lack of coordination. In the world of Pathfinder that leader simply needs to be high level to boot...and even that only eventually, with leading a revolt being a great way to rise in level.
Yep. It's all pork. I'm not saying that military inefficiency is the fault of the military. But it's there nonetheless, in the military and any other government organization. (Like all of the of cold war era bases which are still open only because their closure would hurt the local economy in some congressman's district.)
Counter to this, I was with a friend looking at Google Maps and I wanted to see what Fort Richardson, AK, looked like today, since it was my last duty station in the US Army 1985 - 1987. And guess what, the fort is gone, completely. Not even streets or foundations left, its only wilderness forest now. I couldn't believe it. At the time, I left it was being upgraded from a brigade sized unit to the 6th Light Infantry Division. Now its a place the moose walk, and little else.
Yep. It's all pork. I'm not saying that military inefficiency is the fault of the military. But it's there nonetheless, in the military and any other government organization. (Like all of the of cold war era bases which are still open only because their closure would hurt the local economy in some congressman's district.)Counter to this, I was with a friend looking at Google Maps and I wanted to see what Fort Richardson, AK, looked like today, since it was my last duty station in the US Army 1985 - 1987. And guess what, the fort is gone, completely. Not even streets or foundations left, its only wilderness forest now. I couldn't believe it. At the time, I left it was being upgraded from a brigade sized unit to the 6th Light Infantry Division. Now its a place the moose walk, and little else.
Fort Richardson is still here..its called JBER now (Joint base Elmendorf Richardson) I served in the 509th AB here..and retired here..and still go back on base..all the time..it modern and very well maintained..and busy.
I saw Elmendorf AFB still present (it was there right next to Fort Richardson when I was stationed there) - again, I was looking via Google Maps and not Wikipedia or other online source. I was looking for the old street plan to the fort, but as shown in Google Maps, nothing remains - its all gone. Fort Richardson might indeed be a part of Elmendorf today - I was going on memory and knowing where the fort was.
Uncle Felix is most likely a murderhobo optimized adventurer and he knows that killing level 15 tyrant overlord will be full of loot.
LMAO WHAT IS A MURDERHOBO!? Also we just handled your avatar, he got stomped...sorry bro. Literally kicked in the teeth by a sorceror. Sad day for him.
See, now I see it the other way. Every city should have one super badass because every few years some giant rampaging monster comes out of hibernation and goes on a rampage and you made that person ruler just so they can't leave and will be there to fight it. I imagine the aristocracy is desperate to marry off their children to high level adventurers so they have their own private superhero for when things go horribly wrong. And looking at most AP, modules, and the bestiary, there are a lot of ways things can go wrong.
I love this. Lavish the hero with gifts, make him fight your battles. This is kind of a Greek/biblical conception of the hero - great warriors become great leaders, and are expected to keep the peasantry safe.
Also: did you ever play Ultima Online? Were you a Bob?
I always thought that the "reluctant badass" would make for an interesting story element. Something like this:
1) Albara the Wise, a 15th level wizard, builds himself a tower. Albara built the tower because he wanted a nice place to live, away from people, where he can study magic, putter around the library, and generally live a pleasant life. He barters with a few extraplanar entities and a dragon or two to get some kickass guards, and he hires a few people to staff the place.
2) Word that Albara the Wise has settled in the countryside spreads. A lot of peasants, afraid of harassment from bandits, goblins, and tax accountants, start settling around his tower, figuring that Albara's reputation will protect them. Some of them farm the land, others fish in a nearby river, and a few tradesmen set up shop.
3) Albara wakes up one morning. His butler, an invisible entity from the Plane of Air, informs him that there is a knocking at his front door. Albara goes down, and he finds that a delegation from the recently built village has brought him a substantial portion of grain, leather, and other trade goods in exchange to "Lord Magister Albara" for his "protection and kindly offices."
I love this for a different reason as above. Now I want to run a magical superhero game - a totally different concept for a city adventure! I might try to evolve my current game into this after the current storyline settles out. I have been kind of looking towards what to do next...
5 mil a year? Have you seen how often that guy changes Batmobiles? Each one of those has got to be in at least 10 mil, with all the stuff they can do. And the jets. And repair. Maintenance. New outfits and gadgets that somehow keep up with what's beyond new technology each year. Powering the Batcave. Somehow preventing GPD or the Gotham Power Company find out exactly how much juice he's using to power the Batcave (it would light up like a marijuana grow-house on the grid), which however he's doing that, can't be cheap. Funding the JLA's little space base doesn't seem cost-effective. I dunno, man, if he's dropping only 5 mil a year on being Batman, he's got a hell of a discount going on.
Bro...he basically makes it for himself at cost. He owns the companies that mine and process the materials. Then he owns the company that makes the designs(in secret). Then he owns the company that manufactures the item in question. He is getting all this at cost - or better. Do you think an F-35 REALLY costs $148 million bucks? No way. Markup, dude. It's all about markup. And military grade hardware has the best markup basically in the world, right after fountain drinks. He is getting batmobiles and whatnot for a fraction of what his company would sell a similar product to a military outfit for. Pennies on the dollar! Fractions of fractions of pennies on the dollar! Now granted, he goes through a lot of stuff in a year, and it is still probably pretty expensive, but he is getting a deep deep discount. My guess is that he spends more money on entertainment and throwing parties as Bruce Wayne than he does being Batman. My 2 coppers.