Crocodile Domain, Death Roll, Sneak attack...

[GoldfishBowl]

In a game I'm in, a player has a character that looks like such. There was some uncertainty on what his damage potential was.
Relevant bits only.

Brawler 3 (Strangler), Druid (Crocodile Domain) 2
Str: 19
Alternate Racial: Toothy
Traits: Dirty Fighter
Feats: Imp. Unarmed Strike, Imp. Grapple

From Brawler, he has 2d6 sneak attack when grappling, and an additional +1 from Dirty Fighter.

Assume he has a baddie grappled, and it comes to his turn. He chooses to Death Roll the poor guy. He succeeds on his check, and down they go. Then, since he succeeded on a grapple check while controlling, he chooses to deal damage with his Bite. Being his only Natural Attack, he applies 1.5x Str Bonus.

The damage he came up with for that little string was 1d8+2d6+1, then an additional 1d4+2d6+7.

1) Would Sneak Attack and Dirty Fighter apply to both damage rolls?
2) Do humanoids with a single Natural Attack still apply 1.5x Str bonus?
3) Should Death Roll apply a Strength bonus to damage? Comparing to the Animal's ability it would be intuitive, but it's not written.
4) Later, when his Crocodile Domain gives him more sneak attack dice, they will stack with Strangler's when grappling, correct?

[Rynjin]

1.) Yes.

2.) Should be, but only if that's ALL he uses that turn (Unarmed Strikes are still considered manufactured weapons, for instance)

3.) Most things do. By RAW, it's unclear, but RAI most likely.

4.) Yes. That's what it says ("This increase to sneak attack damage stacks with sneak attack damage you may have from other sources.").

[Nefreet]

Wow!

I've never actually read either of those abilities.

I'm only coming up with 1d8+2d6+1, though.

He's choosing to use his standard action while grappling to Death Roll.

He shouldn't have the action available to also bite.

Edit: oh! Is he also using the Strangler feat? Because that's extra brutal.

[pennywit]

Doesn't the Crocodile domain come with ticking?

[Nefreet]

For reference:

Crocodile Domain wrote:

Death Roll (Ex): While grappling an enemy up to one size category larger than you, you may make a grapple check to roll wildly, knocking your enemy prone and dealing 1d8 points of damage. When using this ability, you gain a bonus to your CMB equal to one half your druid level (minimum 1). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

Strangler Archetype wrote:

Strangle (Ex): At 1st level, a strangler deals +1d6 sneak attack damage whenever she succeeds at a grapple check to damage or pin an opponent. The strangler is always considered flanking her target for the purpose of using this ability. This damage increases by +1d6 at 2nd, 8th and 15th levels. This ability replaces unarmed strike and brawler's flurry.

[Nefreet]

So, PC's turn comes up, and he must make a grapple check to maintain the grapple. Rather than pin, or move, or damage, he chooses to Death Roll. He succeeds, dealing 1d8 damage, and because he succeeded, he adds +2d6 Sneak Attack.

[Rynjin]

Nefreet wrote:

Wow!

I've never actually read either of those abilities.

I'm only coming up with 1d8+2d6+1, though.

He's choosing to use his standard action while grappling to Death Roll.

He shouldn't have the action available to also bite.

Edit: oh! Is he also using the Strangler feat? Because that's extra brutal.

What I assumed was that he was continuing the Grapple, using the Damage option (Bite) and then Standard to Death Roll.

[Nefreet]

To my understanding (although grapple isn't my strongest suit), you only get one option when "maintaining the grapple" (which is already a standard action). Those options normally include "Damage", "Pin", and "Move". "Death Roll" is a separate option, used on its own. Not in conjunction with the other abilities.

You couldn't Pin and Death Roll, or Move and Death Roll, or Damage and Death Roll.

The raw damage from biting is actually more efficient, but Death Roll does knock them prone.

[fretgod99]

Greater Grapple will eventually (at BAB +6) let you maintain as a move action. Then you could do both.

[Rynjin]

Yar. I thought he had that.

[fretgod99]

Rynjin wrote:

Yar. I thought he had that.

I skipped over it, too. Had to go back to double check.

[GoldfishBowl]

Thanks for the answers, and ability clarifications.

Quote:

Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple).

What this player thought was they select Death Roll as their standard action, making a grapple check. When successful, he thinks that check qualifies for "as part of the standard action to maintain the grapple" and wanted to Bite as well.

I see that the animal Death Roll is worded a little different, and specifies that the crocodile maintains its grapple. Would that be the key line disallowing it? Do you think the Domain Death Roll is intended to work the same as the Animal Death Roll?

[Nefreet]

Intent is hard to infer.

It's best to go with what's written.

Including just 1d8 damage, and not adding any Strength bonuses.