Are your first few APs your favourites?


Pathfinder Adventure Path General Discussion


In all the various "what's your favourite AP?" threads over the years, I've been struck by the fact that the ones I rate highest were the first few I read back when it was all new and exciting. Probably a case of becoming spoilt/jaded, I'd guess.

I still really like the recent ones (barring Iron Gods, which I think was done well but is not my cup of tea) but none have grabbed me the way those first few (Crimson Throne, Legacy of Fire and Rise of the Runelords) did.

Is that true for others? Are your favourites generally amongst the first few you read?


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Many of my first APs are more to the middle of my list of favourites, though that's not a set rule. My favourite AP is Rise of the Runelords, which is the 4th one I came to own. My second favourite is Reign of Winter, which was my 6th AP. My least favourite was Shattered Star, which was my 5th.

My 1st AP is actually near the middle of my list of favourites; 4th place out of the 9 that I own.

...I have noticed newer ones (specifically the past three; Wrath of the Rigteous, Mummy's Mask, and Iron Gods) tending to be in the bottom half of my list lately, which worries me a bit. I'm not particularly excited for Giantslayer or Hell's Rebels either. They'll likely be paths I pick up for the content, but skip over at the table in favour of running something else.


I like almost all AP's very VERY much. I liked the new ones better than the old, Mummy, Jade, Star, Serpent, Winter, Rise and King are my favorites, I like both the story, play, items and monsters in these.

From Skull I really LOVED the bestiaries, but the story wasn't really that cool and the encounters were dull in my opinion.

Wrath was fine and all, but too much dull demon encounters and the bestiaries were too much about demons, and I rather see a mix of creatures, the Water Leaper and the flower were nice though.

I only dislike Carrion Crown (the bestiaries were so boring and ugly drawn, but the story was OK) and hate Iron Gods.

I own all AP's spare for Iron Gods, of which I bought none.


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Myth Lord wrote:

I only dislike Carrion Crown (the bestiaries were so boring and ugly drawn, but the story was OK) and hate Iron Gods.

I own all AP's spare for Iron Gods, of which I bought none.

Did you read it thoroughly in a bookstore or are you just dismissing it out of spite because they made sweet sweet love to your traditional fantasy with an Inferno Pistol:-p

As they say "Don't knock it until you try it"
Iron Gods is one of my favorites and i was one of the first to say "no thanks!" when it was announced:)


I just don't like the robots, computers, chainsaws in it. I also didn't really see interesting monster names in the topics about Iron Gods, so no reason to buy them.


Myth Lord wrote:

I just don't like the robots, computers, chainsaws in it. I also didn't really see interesting monster names in the topics about Iron Gods, so no reason to buy them.

But is that reason enough to hate it?

I can understand the computers and robots (actually not the robots, who doesn't like robots!) but have you ever used a Chain Saw! they are fun:)


Back on topic:

I think most of my favorite AP's were mostly the first ones I read. I've been reading them since Dungeon magazine, and I made a list yesterday or the day before ranking my favorite AP's. Everytime I make a similar list these five are always in the "good" to "great" rating for me.

I always rank CotCT and Savage Tide as one and two, in any order.

Runelords, Age of Worms, and Shackled City are also always on my next favorite tier, along with others.

I'm not sure if because they were my first, so to speak, that they always rank so highly for me, or if they were just that good. It's probably a bit of both.

The Exchange

For me, not so much. Curse of the Crimson Throne is my all time favorite, and I like Rise of the Runelords and Second Darkness a lot, but there have been plenty of other favorites along the years.

I'd say Reign of Winter, Shattered Star and Carrion Crown rank as high up as any non CotCT AP for me. Additionally many APs have individual adventures that rank among my all time favorites - for example, the first adventure is Serpent's Skull might just be the best level 1 adventure I've ever seen (it plays as good as it reads, too). Adventure 6 in Kingmaker is awesome for high levels, and adventure 5 in Wrath is great as well.

I have become more jaded over the years but this manifests more as me realizing that if I don't really like the start of an AP I shouldn't invest time and money into finishing my collection of it, because I am highly unlikely to like the rest of it. For this reason I have stopped getting Mummy's Mask after the second installment, and Iron Gods after the first one (this one I'm still not sure about - I REALLY like the overall story and much of the execution, but after giving the whole sci-fi theme a fair chance I still find that I don't really like it).


Favorites (in no particular order): Rise of the Runelords, Curse of the Crimson Throne, Wrath of Winter, Kingmaker

Possibly Iron Gods... need to have the entire path in-hand to decide.

The only one I felt was bad is Second Darkness... the last two entries in that one really killed it for me. Supposedly Wrath of the Righteous is marred by the Mythic Rules but I never got far enough through the AP to see that. We all still liked the story/adventure though.


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Steve Geddes wrote:

In all the various "what's your favourite AP?" threads over the years, I've been struck by the fact that the ones I rate highest were the first few I read back when it was all new and exciting. Probably a case of becoming spoilt/jaded, I'd guess.

I still really like the recent ones (barring Iron Gods, which I think was done well but is not my cup of tea) but none have grabbed me the way those first few (Crimson Throne, Legacy of Fire and Rise of the Runelords) did.

Is that true for others? Are your favourites generally amongst the first few you read?

It is a long standing tradition in RPGs that players fall in love with their first exciting experiences, and then hang their nostalgia hats on those systems and adventures, enshrining them in a rose-colored glass case against which no subsequent system or adventure can compare.

If you started with the original D&D box sets, you're likely going to find out that you defend your position on every new rule change and every new system release to those pamphlets. If you started in 1st Ed, same thing. 2nd Edition kids think that edition was the pinnacle of greatness. 3rd Edition kids can't understand how we old folks ever played the game before their Precious was released, etc.

Adventures follow the exact same pattern. If, to use myself as an example, you fell in love with the game through AD&D's A Series (slavers), G Series (Against the Giants), and S Series (Tomb of Horrors/White Plume Mountain), then you are apt to rapt nostalgic about how "cool" and "dangerous" adventures were then, and likely nothing since has ever compared.

My own adventures and campaigns are a constant struggle to bring that feel back, even if to update it and refine it into something better balanced and more "realistic" in detail. I am always disappointed with new "professionally" published adventures, Paizo and otherwise. But not because they suck. Intellectually, I understand that most are well written and deserving pieces of work. Emotionally, however, I just cannot connect with them the way I did back when it was all new.

Makes me a terrible customer in terms of adventure paths (I'm still a GREAT customer when it comes to snatching up rulebooks) because I approach them with caution, rarely buy, and then never seem to use them for my own games. Makes me a really good writer and GM though. I always go the extra 10 or 11 miles.


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I'm with Lord Snow: The order wasn't all that important.

My two "love love LOVE" APs are Curse of the Crimson Throne (first I ran) and then Rise of the Runelords (fourth).

My least favorite was Council of Thieves (second). Kingmaker seems like it might be fun for some groups, but was absolutely not my cup of tea (third).

Carrion Crown has such a disjoint story I can't really recommend it (fifth), as also happened with Second Darkness (eighth).

In short, here's my ranking of "favorites" with "order played":

1. Rise of the Runelords (4)
2. Crimson Throne (1)
--- There's a BIG break here... none of the rest come close to my "top two"
3. Jade Regent (10)
4. Serpent's Skull (7)
5. Wrath of the Righteous (9)
6. Shattered Star (5)
7. Second Darkness (8)
8. Kingmaker (3) (And don't yell at me -- it has awesome potential, but wasn't my style)
9. Carrion Crown (6)
10. Council of Thieves (2)

I don't really see a pattern there. Do you?


My first two APs are my favorites, but only because they were really really good - Reign of Winter, and Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition. Seeing I've not run the others, I honestly can't say whether I enjoy them more because I'm running them as well.

Liberty's Edge

Starfinder Superscriber

I started with AD&D/1e back in the day (even before the 1st edition GMs guide was released!) I knew that system *really* well. And while I have some nostalgia for the fun times, I have *no* nostalgia for the system. It was an unholy mess. I even sort of realized that at the time, as there were various rules and such that were nigh-impossible to figure out. (For instance, how did initiative, casting time, weapon speed factors, and all that play out, in terms of deciding if a caster's spell was interrupted? I eventually made up my own system, because while it seemed there was supposed to be something in the rules there about it, it was never spelled out at all.) (Also, do the math sometime: if you summon an elemental, it's almost *inevitable* that it will turn on you before the duration expires.)

My favorite setting was probably Planescape, which came out a good 15 or so years after I started gaming.

But, 3e really cleaned up the system and turned it into an actual system that you could really play. With 1e, you were playing something sort of like the system, informed by the rules book, but you had to have house rules just so you could get through the day. No nostalgia here for that. Just nostalgia for being a kid and falling in love with RPGs for the first time.

(I'm sad that I didn't discover Traveller when I was a kid. I would have loved it.)


Before I started playing Pathfinder, I was actually doing a hybrid system of 3rd edition stats and saving throws, and 2nd edition classes and the like. I ended up scrapping it and going pure Pathfinder when a second new player joined and I realized it was impossible to get 3rd edition rules. Pathfinder was described to me as version 3.75, I bought it, and fell in love. And no, it's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. But it's still in many ways better than 3rd edition, and definitely better than the older ones. (And I started playing in the late 70s.)


NobodysHome wrote:

I'm with Lord Snow: The order wasn't all that important.

My two "love love LOVE" APs are Curse of the Crimson Throne (first I ran) and then Rise of the Runelords (fourth).

My least favorite was Council of Thieves (second). Kingmaker seems like it might be fun for some groups, but was absolutely not my cup of tea (third).

Carrion Crown has such a disjoint story I can't really recommend it (fifth), as also happened with Second Darkness (eighth).

In short, here's my ranking of "favorites" with "order played":

1. Rise of the Runelords (4)
2. Crimson Throne (1)
--- There's a BIG break here... none of the rest come close to my "top two"
3. Jade Regent (10)
4. Serpent's Skull (7)
5. Wrath of the Righteous (9)
6. Shattered Star (5)
7. Second Darkness (8)
8. Kingmaker (3) (And don't yell at me -- it has awesome potential, but wasn't my style)
9. Carrion Crown (6)
10. Council of Thieves (2)

I don't really see a pattern there. Do you?

No, not really. Cheers.

Can I ask if you were buying them from the beginning? Or did you join later and go back and get the ones you'd missed?


Gerald wrote:

Back on topic:

I think most of my favorite AP's were mostly the first ones I read. I've been reading them since Dungeon magazine, and I made a list yesterday or the day before ranking my favorite AP's. Everytime I make a similar list these five are always in the "good" to "great" rating for me.

I always rank CotCT and Savage Tide as one and two, in any order.

Runelords, Age of Worms, and Shackled City are also always on my next favorite tier, along with others.

I'm not sure if because they were my first, so to speak, that they always rank so highly for me, or if they were just that good. It's probably a bit of both.

Possibly. I actually think paizo are getting objectively better at writing APs. Nonetheless, my favourites are the ones I ran into first.


Thanks for all the various observations. It's clearly not an obvious trend, even if some others have the same experience as me.
Cheers.


Hmm, not really for me. I actually think Paizo has gotten better with AP writing the further along they've gotten to tell the truth.

People don't like the railroad portion of it, but I think I actually ended up really liking Reign of Winter except part 5, to tell the truth...but that's only personal preference.

I also really liked Shattered Star. Jade Regent and Carrion Crown also were great fun.

I didn't really like Council of Thieves (and in fact, a portion of it was actually quite offensive to me, and even more so to some of my group).

Rise of the Runelords was decent, we played a GM ruled original version instead of the anniversary edition though (still haven't played an anniversary edition run of it). I wouldn't say it was my favorite though.

I know everyone raves about Curse of the Crimson Throne, but for me, it wasn't as great as Reign of Winter, or even as much as IG has been thus far.

Overall, I think I like the later Paizo adventure paths more than the earlier ones thus far.

So, I don't think the lense of nostalgia really plays deep on me. Then again, I'm playing some of the earlier AP's now (with the Great Golem Sale, I finally got a majority of Age of Worms and Savage Tide AP's...though, disgruntling, I am missing the VERY end of Savage Tide I believe...).

The Exchange

Steve Geddes wrote:
Gerald wrote:

Back on topic:

I think most of my favorite AP's were mostly the first ones I read. I've been reading them since Dungeon magazine, and I made a list yesterday or the day before ranking my favorite AP's. Everytime I make a similar list these five are always in the "good" to "great" rating for me.

I always rank CotCT and Savage Tide as one and two, in any order.

Runelords, Age of Worms, and Shackled City are also always on my next favorite tier, along with others.

I'm not sure if because they were my first, so to speak, that they always rank so highly for me, or if they were just that good. It's probably a bit of both.

Possibly. I actually think paizo are getting objectively better at writing APs. Nonetheless, my favourites are the ones I ran into first.

Hmm, interesting. I'm not sure I agree. I mean, Paizo's AP are constantly getting better on a technical level - they look better, have increasingly smart layouts, and more value (I just can't stress enough how much I like the NPC gallery and specialized magic equipment at the end of each adventure, for example). However, an AP being good has a lot more parameters than that. As I said in my previous post, I consider Mummy's Mask to be really bad. An AP has to have an engaging story, with variety in adventures and foes, with a good structure naturally leading from one adventure to the next with each adventure doing something that the others aren't. There are other examples where I think Paizo made some serious mistakes with the structure and big-picture design of recent APs (for example, WotR, the biggest, most epic story Paizo ever told, with a final adventure that feels like a low-mid level adventure with tougher opponents). There are several things about the early APs, especially Rise of the Runelords and Curse of the Crimson Throne, that Paizo often manage to recreate, but not always.


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Steve Geddes wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

I'm with Lord Snow: The order wasn't all that important.

My two "love love LOVE" APs are Curse of the Crimson Throne (first I ran) and then Rise of the Runelords (fourth).

My least favorite was Council of Thieves (second). Kingmaker seems like it might be fun for some groups, but was absolutely not my cup of tea (third).

Carrion Crown has such a disjoint story I can't really recommend it (fifth), as also happened with Second Darkness (eighth).

In short, here's my ranking of "favorites" with "order played":

1. Rise of the Runelords (4)
2. Crimson Throne (1)
--- There's a BIG break here... none of the rest come close to my "top two"
3. Jade Regent (10)
4. Serpent's Skull (7)
5. Wrath of the Righteous (9)
6. Shattered Star (5)
7. Second Darkness (8)
8. Kingmaker (3) (And don't yell at me -- it has awesome potential, but wasn't my style)
9. Carrion Crown (6)
10. Council of Thieves (2)

I don't really see a pattern there. Do you?

No, not really. Cheers.

Can I ask if you were buying them from the beginning? Or did you join later and go back and get the ones you'd missed?

If memory serves (and it's been a couple of years and I'm old, so be patient), I originally posted on the boards and bought Curse of the Crimson Throne standalone. We loved it so much my wife convinced me to pre-order the Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition.

While waiting (we did a REALLY early pre-order), my kids wanted to play an "evil" campaign and my "which is the best campaign for people to be evil in?" question here convinced me to purchase and start Council of Thieves (ouch. Big mistake), and our major group had wrapped up their Runequest campaign, so again on the board's recommendation I picked up Kingmaker to run them in. (And yes, I love ending sentences with prepositions.)

Once I had 4 APs already, I decided to fill in the blanks (I'm a bit OC), so I subscribed (started with Skull & Shackles), picked up all that were still in print from our local brick & mortar store (Games of Berkeley -- free plug for them!), and finally got the last batch in the Great Golem sale a couple of years ago.

In short, started in 2012 by cherry-picking APs, then filled in the rest.


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My first was Kingmaker, i love it, the rest has mixed feelings, they liked the story, did not like kingdom building, to them it felt like more homework/paperwork. Serpent's Skull was my second, it was pretty good, better then the reviews say.

my favorite are Skull & Shackles, Iron Gods, Mummy's Mask, Reign of Winter and Rise of the Runelords.

i don't subscribe for pretty much two reasons, money being more fluid (some months i just don't have it when the book gets shipped) but most importantly my kids love the lady that works at the game store we go to (ImBoard Games-since we're giving out free plugs:) they have a blast talking and hanging out with her and i get 15 minutes of peace looking stuff over win-win:) and thats worth the free pdf I'm giving up, extra week i gotta wait, and the extra 80 cents or so i pay:)


I haven't had the chance to play an AP yet, but my group is gearing up for Iron Gods. I guess that makes it my defacto favorite for the time being. ;)

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