Aid Another and Spells


Rules Questions


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In a recent thread someone pointed out that you can use aid another to aid someone who is affected by a spell, but the rule is not clear on what this aid is. It could be throwing water on someone to give them a second save. It could be using a standard action to wake someone up from a sleep spell. It could mean they actually get a +2 to any saving throw somehow.

Here is the text:

Quote:

Aid Another

In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you're in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent's next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack.

You can also use this standard action to help a friend in other ways, such as when he is affected by a spell, or to assist another character's skill check.

So the question is in what way can you use aid another to assist someone affected by a spell. Is it intended to give a +2 to the save against any spell or is there another meaning behind the wording?

Grand Lodge

I think the purpose is to help someone break free of an enchantment or illusion or some other ongoing effect that the character can resist.


I could see this both ways. On the one hand, I can see it's being used for continuing saves. Of the other, I can see being able to help push someone out of the way (ref), encourage (will) or block part of the effect/LOS (could help with all). In essence a kind of readied action.

I'll be curious to see how this shakes out.

Sczarni

I believe that "such as when he is affected by a spell" part is set there because there might be spells which might be prevented through mundane means. Some Reflex-based spells which could catch the target on fire or such might be perfect candidates, maybe even effects like Hold Person which do grant a new Save each round. I am honestly confused though. First time I saw that part of text. One thing I am sure that it probably references on the "ongoing spells" and there isn't too many of those.

Interesting topic.

Adam


never saw the related part to spells!!! Good question....

FAQ'ed....


Giving a +2 on a save against an ongoing spell effect seems reasonable. If you can use aid another before the initial saving throw for a spell that could be interesting though. For instance, everybody could stop and Aid the low Will save Fighter before before he goes into the area of a debilitating Will save, or a familiar with nothing better to do could use Aid Another to boost its master's saving throws.


Giving +2 to a save does sound reasonable, but how would you qualify? You'd need to beat DC10 in some way, and the obvious way is to roll the same saving throw. For example, if the fighter is Held, you might be helping him break free. But I can't see any way in which your own Will save is any use there. Nor is your own Fortitude save any use for helping him with his poison save; OTOH, Heal would be perfect for that.

A readied action to push someone out of the way of a fireball might be ok (reflex DC10) just like you can give +2 AC against a ray.

I suspect there's a lot of GM call here.

Sczarni

+2 to a save sounds reasonable, but to a certain degree. If a GM mentions semi-secret Will Save, that would be metagaming to Aid Another to him, but entering into the area of strange mist which causes hallucinations seems perfectly acceptable.

It's really confusing though. It includes a lot of GM's judgement and incredible dose of table variation.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

I have always taken that part of the aid another rules to mean, "You can use aid another when a friend is affected by spells that explicitly say you can use aid another."

For example, sleep explicitly mentions that you can use the aid another action to awaken the target of the spell.

Other spells do not explicitly say you can use aid another actions to affect them, and thus do not interact with the spells clause of aid another.

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