The following is for PFS...
Hi! I'm working on a archer concept that takes the flavor of the Arcane Archer right from level 1 without actually taking levels in the PrC. Essentially, it's a Zen Archer (Monk) that uses the majority of it's normal feats/traits to boost UMD and Spellcraft.
I've played archers before and found the full-attack with arrows extremely boring. This is my attempt to give an archer something more to do than just damage.
With the build below, I should have a +5 Spellcraft and a +10 UMD at level 1. The build is worked out to level 7, but, I'm wondering what to do with my higher level feat slots.
Also, I'd like some advice on using UMD and Spellcraft in PFS. How high do they need to be? And, how useful are scrolls/wands without caster levels?
Half-Elf Zen Archer
STR 14, DEX 14, CON 12, INT 14, WIS 17, CHA 7
Traits: Pragmatic Activator, Underlying Principles
Feats:
1 - IUS [m], Precise Shot [m], Perfect Strike [m], Skill Focus (UMD) [h], Elvin Spirit
2 - WF (longbow) [m], Point Blank Shot [m]
3 - Point Blank Master [m], Magical Aptitude
5 - Deadly Aim
6 - WS (longbow)
7 - Arcane Vendetta
9 - ????
11 - ???
Thanks for the advice!
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This is a great idea! Please tell us some spells you plan to UMD in combination with archery. I can't think of many, offhand, but there are surely some juicy ones. I imagine Divine Favor is near the top of your list. Will you use wands, scrolls, or a mix?
We don't have an Arcane Archer guide, and I've never played one except as a GM. If one DOES have the Arcane Archer abilities, how does one use them? What spells work well with with Imbue Arrow? Color Spray and Burning Hands are obvious, but those don't seem to scale well to high levels.
Please, could someone who has played an Arcane Archer explain this class works?
I'd be using a mix of wands and scrolls. Spells would include:
Gravity Bow
Divine Favor
Longstrider
Aspect of the Falcon
Heroism
Hero's Feast
Mage Armor
Shield
Burning Hands/Fireball (for swarms)
etc.
I don't think there is an Arcane Archer guide...I guess the general consensus is that the mechanics are so terrible the class cannot be optimized.
Well,that pretty much just looks like a Zen archer. If you are going for combining spellcasting with archer you're probably looking at myrmdach maGus archetype. If you're looking for shoots fireball arrows, then try an archery focused alchemist With explosive missile.
I'm not looking to fire spells from my bow, I'm looking to get access to some utility and support spells from wands/scrolls to enhance my archery. Overall, I'm looking for a way to give out of combat options to the archer and make it less boring. And, I want to start doing this at level 1, first session.
If you want to be an arcane archer, there's no real substitute for the arcane archer prestige class. What you're suggesting is an archer who uses buff spells to augment his combat prowess. The two ideas are fairly different.
As far as spellcraft and UMD, you want them maxed, as the difficulty of these checks are normally pretty high.
Feats will be pretty much a standard range dps route, although there are a few other options.
Feats
Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Precise Shot
Weapon Focus
Deadly Aim
Manyshot
Arcane Strike
Elven Accuracy (if you go elf)
Cluster Shot
Spells
1st
True Strike (for hitting)
Gravity Bow (for damage)
Mage Armor (for survivability)
Unseen Servant (for picking up arrows) (more of a gimmick than anything)
Vanish (for getting out of sticky situations)
Aspect of the Falcon (needs explanation?)
Abundant Ammunition (for ammo in circumstances where you lose your quiver)
2nd
Arrow Eruption (for damage and laughs)
Richochet shot (for damage and more laughs)
Invisibility (because invisiblity)
Levitate (rain arrows from safety)
Cat's Grace (more dex bonus!)
Also, there is an arcane archer guide. It's not very big or detailed, but it gives a pretty good framework and at least gets ideas going. Guide
If what you want is more versatility, consider the alchemist (grenadier) class. Also keep in mind that there are much more to arrows in Pathfinder than just a shaft of wood. A while back I build a gestalt Oliver Queen (Green Arrow) character, and I bought a bunch of different kinds of arrows. Even without using alchemy he can do about 2 dozen different things in combat, most of them due to special arrows. Check out the equipment section. Oliver Queen
Thanks Campin!
I had forgotten about all of the special arrows. Many of these are race-specific items. As a half-elf, do I have access to purchase these in PFS?
No idea. I've only dabbled in PFS and didn't care for it much. I mean, you have to give up scribe scroll as a wizard? I almost flipped a table.
No idea. I've only dabbled in PFS and didn't care for it much. I mean, you have to give up scribe scroll as a wizard? I almost flipped a table.
Well, to be fair, PFS doesn't allow any crafting, no matter the class. It has to do with keeping everybody at comparable wealth (and power) as they level. Alchemists also don't get brew potion. Free Spell Focus for a niche wizard is a pretty fair exchange, I think.
Back to topic...
I respectfully disagree.
In PFS, rangers can't cast from wands/scrolls until 4th level when they get their spell list (same goes with paladin). Until that point, a ranger would still need to invest in UMD, which isn't on the their class list. So, I would be spending a trait (and maybe a feat) on UMD at the very least if I went Ranger. This would take up valuable feats that I would need for archery.
In contrast, by going Zen Archer, I get more free archery feats and spend my other feats on UMD/Spellcraft - as shown in the build. By going with UMD instead of a spell list, I am opening up casting all of the spells in the game. Ultimate casting versatility and superb archery.
Also...not a fan of the animal companion.
I also prefer Zen Archer to ranger because of cost efficiency. Monks don't need armor and a Zen Archer can't use Monk's Robe or the other standard (costly) magic items. This frees up a lot of GP for buying wands and the like.
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I respectfully disagree.
In PFS, rangers can't cast from wands/scrolls until 4th level when they get their spell list (same goes with paladin). Until that point, a ranger would still need to invest in UMD, which isn't on the their class list. So, I would be spending a trait (and maybe a feat) on UMD at the very least if I went Ranger. This would take up valuable feats that I would need for archery.
In contrast, by going Zen Archer, I get more free archery feats and spend my other feats on UMD/Spellcraft - as shown in the build. By going with UMD instead of a spell list, I am opening up casting all of the spells in the game. Ultimate casting versatility and superb archery.
Also...not a fan of the animal companion.
Errr Rangers, Paladins, Bloodragers can all cast from wands with out using UMD as long as the spell is on their list. Unless PFS has some houserule I was unaware of.
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In PFS, rangers can't cast from wands/scrolls until 4th level when they get their spell list (same goes with paladin). Until that point, a ranger would still need to invest in UMD, which isn't on the their class list.
I do not believe that to be the case for wands.
Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can't actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.
I know of nothing in PFS that over-rides this.
It is true for scrolls though.
In PFS, rangers can't cast from wands/scrolls until 4th level when they get their spell list (same goes with paladin). Until that point, a ranger would still need to invest in UMD, which isn't on the their class list.I do not believe that to be the case for wands.
Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can't actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.
I know of nothing in PFS that over-rides this.
It is true for scrolls though.
Thanks BertI. I was just doing the same research. Rangers, et al. can use wands that are on their spell list before level 4, but not scrolls.
Arcane Archer substitutes (but not the real deal):
- Mymidarch magus
- Card Caster magus
- Drow Cavern sniper (darkness imbued Arrows)
- Alchemist (Conductive weapon with bombs/grenadier archetype/focused shot/vital strike)
- Bards (Sound striker with conductive? Just thought of this will check if legal)
Those function slightly like an arcane Archer, can cast and do well in combat.
Arcane Archer substitutes (but not the real deal):
- Mymidarch magus
- Card Caster magus
- Drow Cavern sniper (darkness imbued Arrows)
- Alchemist (Conductive weapon with bombs/grenadier archetype/focused shot/vital strike)
- Bards (Sound striker with conductive? Just thought of this will check if legal)Those function slightly like an arcane Archer, can cast and do well in combat.
There is also the Cartomancer witch archetype. But, there are several unknowns with the rules concerning harrow cards, deadly dealer, etc. That makes me hesitant to try anything like that in PFS. A bow alchemist on the other hand...