Bolt Ace advice


Advice

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Hey, in my gaming groups coming campaign next week I am going to be playing my groups ranged damage dealer with a Bolt Ace Gunslinger.
I need some advice on the following things.

My group rolls their stats always and I hit some kind of jackpot with the following stats: 18,18,16,16,15,13
How should I put them? I was thinking of the pair of 18s going to Dex and Wis but how about the rest? Can a bolt ace get both str and dex to their crossbow damage?

Also starting with 47 000 gold with our lvl 7 characters, is +2 distance weapon for 18k worth it or too expensive?
What other items should I purchase beyond boots of speed?

Thanks!


No, you cannot get strength to crossbow damage, as there is nothing in Pathfinder resembling a composite crossbow. With those kind of insane rolls I would suggest going with a type of ranged DPS that uses a longbow instead, but if you're dead stuck on Bolt Ace here's my thoughts.

18 in dex, obviously. I would leave your 13 for charisma, 15 in intelligence, and then put the remaining 16 in strength. Or even swap strength and wisdom to make yourself more melee potent. An 18 strength with a 2 handed weapon is a pretty good chunk of damage even with 0 feats invested in it.

As for gear, a while ago I built Oliver Queen (Green Arrow) as a gestalt character and I spent quite a bit of time looking into gear. Here is the alias.

Bracers of Falcon's Aim are amazing, especially when combined with a Thundering weapon.

Belt of Incredible Dexterity, probably +4.

Headband of Wisdom if you think you're going to be burning through grit points.

Efficient Quiver is a must for any archer, crossbow or not. With that you should invest in all kinds of different arrows.

Distance quality is...decent I guess. If you really think you'll be attacking at that kind of range on a consistent basis, go for it. As a DM I rarely even make maps that large outside of full blown wars.


CampinCarl9127 wrote:

No, you cannot get strength to crossbow damage, as there is nothing in Pathfinder resembling a composite crossbow. With those kind of insane rolls I would suggest going with a type of ranged DPS that uses a longbow instead, but if you're dead stuck on Bolt Ace here's my thoughts.

18 in dex, obviously. I would leave your 13 for charisma, 15 in intelligence, and then put the remaining 16 in strength. Or even swap strength and wisdom to make yourself more melee potent. An 18 strength with a 2 handed weapon is a pretty good chunk of damage even with 0 feats invested in it.

As for gear, a while ago I built Oliver Queen (Green Arrow) as a gestalt character and I spent quite a bit of time looking into gear. Here is the alias.

Bracers of Falcon's Aim are amazing, especially when combined with a Thundering weapon.

Belt of Incredible Dexterity, probably +4.

Headband of Wisdom if you think you're going to be burning through grit points.

Efficient Quiver is a must for any archer, crossbow or not. With that you should invest in all kinds of different arrows.

Distance quality is...decent I guess. If you really think you'll be attacking at that kind of range on a consistent basis, go for it. As a DM I rarely even make maps that large outside of full blown wars.

I am determined to make it a crossbow character just for RP flavor reasons. A great white hunter so to speak with a crossbow. Why do you suggest a longbow dps instead? I find Bolt ace very viable and powerful.

Yeah stat distribution wise I guess that's the most logical choice, I was actually thinking str 13 to really make him mostly just ranged.

Never knew of efficient quiver funny enough, yeah it's a must have.

Distance was just for the idea to snipe something from a long reach, not on a combat grid map per say.
Got to read through that character of yours which seems exactly what I am looking for.


I suggest longbow instead because you can do everything that a crossbow can do without the drawback of having to reload, and you also get to add your strength bonus to damage.

Don't underestimate 18 strength and a greatsword. That's 2d6+6 damage for no other investments. Add just one feat for power attack and that's another +3 damage per 3 levels.

You'd be surprised how rare it is you have to shoot over 100 ft. You'd probably benefit a lot more from a simple damage buff to your weapon.

Yes I invested quite a lot of time into that character, he's quite a terror.


CampinCarl9127 wrote:

I suggest longbow instead because you can do everything that a crossbow can do without the drawback of having to reload, and you also get to add your strength bonus to damage.

Don't underestimate 18 strength and a greatsword. That's 2d6+6 damage for no other investments. Add just one feat for power attack and that's another +3 damage per 3 levels.

You'd be surprised how rare it is you have to shoot over 100 ft. You'd probably benefit a lot more from a simple damage buff to your weapon.

Yes I invested quite a lot of time into that character, he's quite a terror.

Bolt Ace doesn't have to spend anytime reloading if you either pick crossbow mastery or stick to light crossbows.

But true the str to damage is there.

Silver Crusade

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Sir Dante wrote:

Hey, in my gaming groups coming campaign next week I am going to be playing my groups ranged damage dealer with a Bolt Ace Gunslinger.

I need some advice on the following things.

My group rolls their stats always and I hit some kind of jackpot with the following stats: 18,18,16,16,15,13
How should I put them? I was thinking of the pair of 18s going to Dex and Wis but how about the rest? Can a bolt ace get both str and dex to their crossbow damage?

Also starting with 47 000 gold with our lvl 7 characters, is +2 distance weapon for 18k worth it or too expensive?
What other items should I purchase beyond boots of speed?

Thanks!

Okay, there's a few things to ask here.

What race are you going? Do you like the idea of dual wielding? Would you rather be in melee as well? Are you okay with dipping, and if so, how much? How large is your group?

Stats should go

Str 13
Con 16
Dex 18
Int 16
Wis 18
Cha 15

(Cha and Str can be changed if desired)

Distance isn't needed, even a light crossbow has 80 ft of range, and you don't need it at all unless you're having super long engagements, which most games don't.

As stated before, Bracers of Falcon's Aim are hype, get them ASAP. Everything else is dependent on the questions asked earlier.

Dark Archive

I would suggest dual wielding Light/Heavy Repeater Crossbows, unfortunately the rules text for double crossbows and crossbow mastery is stupid(crossbow mastery says you can reload any crossbow as a free action, double crossbow says it allows you to reload both chambers as a move action: Specific trumps general is in effect and it sucks for you unfortunately) that is why I suggest Dual-Wielding, combined with rapid shot and deadly aim with your stats it should be ridiculous(a two level dip in Monk(Sohei)will give that Wisdom to your AC as well and two feats you can spend on either mounted combat or backup melee abilities(I'd Suggest grabbing Pummeling Style and Pummeling Charge at later levels if you can swing it, because if you are going two weapon fighting this makes you an effective switch-hitter) Other than that I think you're good.

Silver Crusade

Helcack wrote:
I would suggest dual wielding Light/Heavy Repeater Crossbows, unfortunately the rules text for double crossbows and crossbow mastery is stupid(crossbow mastery says you can reload any crossbow as a free action, double crossbow says it allows you to reload both chambers as a move action: Specific trumps general is in effect and it sucks for you unfortunately) that is why I suggest Dual-Wielding, combined with rapid shot and deadly aim with your stats it should be ridiculous(a two level dip in Monk(Sohei)will give that Wisdom to your AC as well and two feats you can spend on either mounted combat or backup melee abilities(I'd Suggest grabbing Pummeling Style and Pummeling Charge at later levels if you can swing it, because if you are going two weapon fighting this makes you an effective switch-hitter) Other than that I think you're good.

Maybe for the loser regular double crossbow, but Minotaurs know how to make some sweet tech.

Dual wielding is really a great style to go, and Sohei is pretty low on the list of monk dips, since Far Thrower Monk can get you 2 ranged feats (like Precise Shot and Rapid Shot) for the first two levels, and if you go 4 deep, you're picking up Shot on the Run, while Zen Archer also gets you two feats, as well as Point Blank Master at 3rd in case you wanted to Light Crossbow/Cestus (an Agile Cestus after taking Weapon Finesse should be your first purchase.)

The only reason to stay in Bolt Ace after level 5 is to pick up Sig Deed, but diverting for 2-4 levels would also be fine.

For Duel wielding, you're going to need one of a few things:

Tiefling (Tail racial trait and Grasping Tail feat, best option)

2 levels in Alchemist (Extra Arm), Juggler Bard (Juggling), or Feral Gnasher (Goblin only).

M. Double Crossbow is a fine option, and Human/Half-Elf do great at getting it online ASAPossible, but dual wielding light crossbows is also a powerful style, so personal preference is key to what you want to accomplish.


I sure love the various double xbows

problem with minotaur double xbow is that they never price it no?
so kind hard to get a hold of

Grand Lodge

Bolt Ace gets dexterity to damage.

I would still like to see a viable build.


Does anybody know if Bolt Ace interacts in any interesting ways with Launching Crossbows?

My instinct is that the Dex to damage would not apply, at least not to the splash damage. Am I correct?

Grand Lodge

Avoron wrote:

Does anybody know if Bolt Ace interacts in any interesting ways with Launching Crossbows?

My instinct is that the Dex to damage would not apply, at least not to the splash damage. Am I correct?

Hard to tell.

RAW seems to favor yes.


Sir Dante wrote:

Also starting with 47 000 gold with our lvl 7 characters, is +2 distance weapon for 18k worth it or too expensive?

What other items should I purchase beyond boots of speed?

I would never buy the distance enchantment on a weapon. If you happen to run into range issues, you can use flight arrows/bolts or take the Far Shot feat (or both).

For crossbow enchantments, you might consider...
Seeking is excellent if you can't get Improved Precise Shot. It's still useful even if you do have Improved Precise Shot, but it's not a "must have" then.

Endless Ammunition or Conserving are nice if you don't want to carry truckloads of bolts around.

Limning isn't bad, but if there's someone in your party who can cast Faerie Fire, skip it.

Planar is handy if you know you're going to face outsiders of any type.

(Adaptive is the big must-have for composite bows, but you won't need that with a crossbow.)

My two current favorites, though, are:
Designating (+2): all allies get a +2 morale bonus to attack and damage for 1 round after you hit a target. You can probably manage to hit a target every round.

Distracting (from the Ranged Tactics Toolbox): When you hit someone with a Distracting weapon, the DC for concentration checks for any spell or spell-like ability is 5 higher for 1 minute. (My Zen Archer opens combat by targeting any casters with Tangleshot arrows from her Distracting bow. It tends to ruin their day.)

I also love the trick arrows from the Elves of Golarion book. They're not on the PRD, but Archive of Nethys has all of them. Durable arrows (both cold iron and adamantine) have become my go-to ammunition, but my favorites are the pheromone arrows: any creature with the scent ability gets +2 attack and damage against the target for an hour.

Oh, and get weapon blanches, especially silver and ghost salt. Blanches only last for one hit, but your arrow only lasts for one hit, so it all works out. (Cold iron and adamantine weapons can be blanched, and they count as both material types.)


N. Jolly wrote:
Sir Dante wrote:

Hey, in my gaming groups coming campaign next week I am going to be playing my groups ranged damage dealer with a Bolt Ace Gunslinger.

I need some advice on the following things.

My group rolls their stats always and I hit some kind of jackpot with the following stats: 18,18,16,16,15,13
How should I put them? I was thinking of the pair of 18s going to Dex and Wis but how about the rest? Can a bolt ace get both str and dex to their crossbow damage?

Also starting with 47 000 gold with our lvl 7 characters, is +2 distance weapon for 18k worth it or too expensive?
What other items should I purchase beyond boots of speed?

Thanks!

Okay, there's a few things to ask here.

What race are you going? Do you like the idea of dual wielding? Would you rather be in melee as well? Are you okay with dipping, and if so, how much? How large is your group?

Stats should go

Str 13
Con 16
Dex 18
Int 16
Wis 18
Cha 15

(Cha and Str can be changed if desired)

Distance isn't needed, even a light crossbow has 80 ft of range, and you don't need it at all unless you're having super long engagements, which most games don't.

As stated before, Bracers of Falcon's Aim are hype, get them ASAP. Everything else is dependent on the questions asked earlier.

Most likely I am going with a human but depending on the GM a tiefling might also be a choice. We are a group of 4 with a fighter,samurai(sword saint), bard (onlyone left from the former campaign) and my bolt ace. I know we lack arcane and divine magic but it's intentional and our GM adjusts the campaign for it.

Oh! also two houserule changes my GM made, 1. Full crossbow proficiency instead of guns. 2. rapid reload instead of gunsmith.

I might go for dipping but I think our campaign won't go beyond lvl 12 so I'd keep that in mind, might make two builds one with 11/1 and the other with 5/x/x don't know how to multiclass really well. I'd prefer to stick with a single weapon instead of dual wield since I don't need that kind of ridiculous damage. I am the only person who ''knows'' how to optimize my character's. The fighter player wants to beat skulls and is a dwarf fighter 2H weapon. The Samurai is our tank and the bard is a support/ranged damage.

I did read your guide but multiclassing has been difficult for me always. I appreciate the advice folks!


Helcack wrote:
I would suggest dual wielding Light/Heavy Repeater Crossbows, unfortunately the rules text for double crossbows and crossbow mastery is stupid(crossbow mastery says you can reload any crossbow as a free action, double crossbow says it allows you to reload both chambers as a move action: Specific trumps general is in effect and it sucks for you unfortunately) that is why I suggest Dual-Wielding, combined with rapid shot and deadly aim with your stats it should be ridiculous(a two level dip in Monk(Sohei)will give that Wisdom to your AC as well and two feats you can spend on either mounted combat or backup melee abilities(I'd Suggest grabbing Pummeling Style and Pummeling Charge at later levels if you can swing it, because if you are going two weapon fighting this makes you an effective switch-hitter) Other than that I think you're good.

I'd rather stick to a single weapon even though mechanics wise it's viable. I just find the idea of dual wielding crossbows and magically reloading them kind of silly, I know it's a game with magic and physically world altering gods but also the damage output would be too ridiculous and outshine the other players too much.

Other players: 2H fighter, sword and board samurai and a support bard.

But the two level monk dip sounds interesting and workable possibly. It's one less BAB but +3 to all saves and some other monkly goodies. At what lvl would you take it and why would you pick it beyond the wis to AC? Isn't the far reach monk or Zen archer monk better for and archer build or are you suggesting to round up the builds all around abilities by that?


Gwen Smith wrote:
Sir Dante wrote:

Also starting with 47 000 gold with our lvl 7 characters, is +2 distance weapon for 18k worth it or too expensive?

What other items should I purchase beyond boots of speed?

I would never buy the distance enchantment on a weapon. If you happen to run into range issues, you can use flight arrows/bolts or take the Far Shot feat (or both).

For crossbow enchantments, you might consider...
Seeking is excellent if you can't get Improved Precise Shot. It's still useful even if you do have Improved Precise Shot, but it's not a "must have" then.

Endless Ammunition or Conserving are nice if you don't want to carry truckloads of bolts around.

Limning isn't bad, but if there's someone in your party who can cast Faerie Fire, skip it.

Planar is handy if you know you're going to face outsiders of any type.

(Adaptive is the big must-have for composite bows, but you won't need that with a crossbow.)

My two current favorites, though, are:
Designating (+2): all allies get a +2 morale bonus to attack and damage for 1 round after you hit a target. You can probably manage to hit a target every round.

Distracting (from the Ranged Tactics Toolbox): When you hit someone with a Distracting weapon, the DC for concentration checks for any spell or spell-like ability is 5 higher for 1 minute. (My Zen Archer opens combat by targeting any casters with Tangleshot arrows from her Distracting bow. It tends to ruin their day.)

I also love the trick arrows from the Elves of Golarion book. They're not on the PRD, but Archive of Nethys has all of them. Durable arrows (both cold iron and adamantine) have become my go-to ammunition, but my favorites are the pheromone arrows: any creature with the scent ability gets +2 attack and damage against the target for an hour.

Oh, and get weapon blanches, especially silver and ghost salt. Blanches only last...

Designating sounds great but it's very expensive, a possibility at later levels since it would do very well with my party since we have two dedicated melee character's. Distracting also would give the GM a headache which I am all for! Not literally but you get my point.

Got to check out the trick arrows for sure.

Grand Lodge

I am playing a bolt ace with a single dip in inspired blade swashbuckler and grabbed fencing grace. With your stats you would have a grit pool of about 9! I would highly recommend it! Also you are able to dodge any ranged or melee attack which is very helpful as well.


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general advice for bolt ace:

Inspired blade 1: for a back up rapier, and for the extra panache/grit and some useful deflection abilities. (Ask your gm if parry/repost is usuable once you have the ability to melee with your crossbow XD)
If you don't mind much about it though then it's not

Bolt ace 5 or 7 (5 for dex to damage 7 for that full attack using one attack thing). needed.

Last few levels are dealers choice. But I've found Myrrdamitch to be amusing. jUst for adding a spell haha. though it wont' come online till pretty late. But the lower level spell slots still have some uses.
but it's not the best admitidly

Hunter is amusing for the good spell choices-and the Wis-grit goodness. Personally I go feral just for the few bonuses and because I'm not an animal companion guy. the bbab los kinda hurts. but it gives you some lovely options. gravity bow, reloading for you etc.

Alternatively again is Alchemist and explosive missle-but meh again to me.
Unrelated to the random advice above

I am heavily a fan of the "one big as sshot with a double xbow" idea. Either using Vital strikes or the lv 7 ace bolt move. Either minotaur if you can find the prices/etc or normal double xbow (move action to reload both at best, unless your lv 11? bolt ace. But in theory you could be allowed to reload one shot faster, if you can do that then after the first shot it's not much different than a normal xbow outside of weight)

but over all vital strike or lv 7 and a double xbow shot vs touch ac makes for a utterly wonderful opening attack. If you add in Designating it might be nifty too. but I tend to like the elemental on a double xbow since the only things not copied to both arrows are precision based damages. So a firey arrow would have 2 iterations of fire (onlye 1 on a crit).
it's I guess another sideways reason I sorta was amused by the magus myrdamith thing..
Doublexbow+ A ranged attack spell(I liked Corrosive touch via range increse)+the magus's enchantments for various elements. It makes for a rather fun trick. Either doing the spell portion often or vital strike . But I built it pretty immobile and was dropping a move action on reloading both shots each round and was pretty far away for a fight.

Also for magus and hunter. Reloadig hands says
"nce per round, phantom hands load a single ranged weapon or firearm with conjured ammunition. " It doesnt specify a single piece it specifies loading ammunition into a single weapon. So in theory once a round it could potentially load both bolts in a double crossbow. but ask your gm

and for more specific for you
Unless your going to be seriously far away I don't thin kyou need distance.
I would start lv 5 bolt ace. Then go mymidarch Magus if your intending a double xbow style it gets you some nifty things. If your going a normal xbow I would suggest either Hunter or another Full BAB. If you don't want any magi abilities at all then stick full 7 levels of gunslinger. Afterwhich you could look at urban barbarian for the rage to dex.

Dip Inspiried swash if you want more grit or close range ability. or if you rahter be an Int based acebolt and not wis.

If your double xbow get all the feats up to and including crossbow mastery. If not your pretty open to choices.

but! Deadly Aim does not work with crossbows when they are aimed at touch AC via your ability. They do not have the specific wording like Guns do to allow it.


Zwordsman wrote:
** spoiler omitted **...

Hmm, I'd prefer to stick with a non caster.

Would Bolt Ace/Far throw monk/Inspired blade, 5/2/1 work?
Only 1 BAB loss and would get both rapier better and evasion + 2 extra feats from monk and finesse + weapon focus from inspired blade.


If you can get a minotaur double crossbow (offer to pay 1000 GP for MW one) I would combine that with vital strike and Improved vital strike.

Once you have crossbow mastery it will either be a free or move action to reload but since you are vital striking you only need a standard to fire.

Enlarge person + gravity bow takes you damage to 6d8 and with improved vital strike you get up to 18d8. Also remember that any damage add including deadly aim get doubled due to two bolts.


If I would use a minotaur double crossbow, how many shots could I fire assuming I got crossbow mastery and rapid reload to reload it with free actions.

Does it double one's attacks?


No, it's just that each attack does twice the normal damage. Precision damage is not multiplied, but other damage bonuses are.

Silver Crusade

Sir Dante wrote:

If I would use a minotaur double crossbow, how many shots could I fire assuming I got crossbow mastery and rapid reload to reload it with free actions.

Does it double one's attacks?

From how it reads, it should basically give you manyshot on all of your attacks, so while you're not doing sneak or anything, it should include dex/enchant/etc


N. Jolly wrote:
Sir Dante wrote:

If I would use a minotaur double crossbow, how many shots could I fire assuming I got crossbow mastery and rapid reload to reload it with free actions.

Does it double one's attacks?

From how it reads, it should basically give you manyshot on all of your attacks, so while you're not doing sneak or anything, it should include dex/enchant/etc

Oh! That makes it a lot more clear to me.

Do you have any thoughts on three levels of dips 2 monk and 1 swashbuckler? 2 far throw and 1 inspired blade.


Avoron wrote:
No, it's just that each attack does twice the normal damage. Precision damage is not multiplied, but other damage bonuses are.

Thanks, that helps to understand.


If you go down the vital strike line you will only get 1 attack a round but it will be massive.


Mathius wrote:

If you go down the vital strike line you will only get 1 attack a round but it will be massive.

Not going to go down vital strike line, but it's still a good secondary choice. I prefer many attacks over 1 massive.


I think there is a feat that adds Int to damage for crossbows somewhere in core.

[I will begin looking and report back]

edit: Nevermind, the feat I was thinking of was focused shot, and it only adds Int to damage as a standard attack action.

Silver Crusade

Shadowkire wrote:

I think there is a feat that adds Int to damage for crossbows somewhere in core.

[I will begin looking and report back]

Focused Shot, and it's not great since it's a standard action.

Also I'm assuming a Zen Archer/Far Thrower archetype, although are you planning on going Inspired Blade for additional grit? Or are you thinking of TWF with a melee weapon too? Either would be fine, although I'd wait to take the I. Blade level until 8th so you're getting Dex to damage.


N. Jolly wrote:
Shadowkire wrote:

I think there is a feat that adds Int to damage for crossbows somewhere in core.

[I will begin looking and report back]

Focused Shot, and it's not great since it's a standard action.

Also I'm assuming a Zen Archer/Far Thrower archetype, although are you planning on going Inspired Blade for additional grit? Or are you thinking of TWF with a melee weapon too? Either would be fine, although I'd wait to take the I. Blade level until 8th so you're getting Dex to damage.

Yeah 5 bolt ace, 2 far thrower and 1 inspired blade. For the extra grit and some melee capability. Or do you think I should go for some other class then after the two monk levels?


Mathius wrote:
Enlarge person + gravity bow takes you damage to 6d8 and with improved vital strike you get up to 18d8. Also remember that any damage add including deadly aim get doubled due to two bolts.

Enlarge Person doesn't work with projectile weapons.

Once the projectile leaves your weapon, it reverts to its normal size so you lose the bonus dice you get from Enlarge Person. (Enlarge Person and Reduce Person both specifically make projectile-weapon wielders do the lowest possible damage. The text on projectile weapons is reversed in the spells, and it gets really confusing.)

There is, however, a workaround:
Carry a quiver of large size arrows. Put the quiver down, cast Enlarge Person, and pick the quiver up again (you can also drop the quiver after the spell is cast). Now your enlarged bow is shooting actual large arrows that maintain their size when they leave your possession, and you get your full, large-size damage. A bit of a pain, but in this case, probably well worth it.

One note: If you use Hero Lab, this tactic confuses the heck of it.


With my build so far looking like this:
Following house rules by GM, 1: bolt ace proficient with all crossbows instead of guns, 2: bolt ace gains rapid reload instead of gunsmith.

So the build is: 5 Gunslinger (Bolt Ace) / 2 Monk (Far Strike) / 1 Swashbuckler (Inspired Blade)

1 - (1G): Deadly Aim, Rapid Reload: (???????), human: Weapon focus:
2 - (1M): Bonus: Precise Shot
3 - (2M): Bonus: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot
4 - (2G): Crossbow Mastery (?????)
5 - (3G): ???
6 - (4G): ???
7 - (5G): Snap Shot
8 - (1S): Swashbuckler Finesse, Weapon Focus: (rapier)
9 - (6G): Hammer the Gap

Any suggestions for levels 5 and 6?
Should I try for TWF with light crossbows or does it even work?
Also if I've got any mistakes there, please correct me :) thanks and merry christmas!


Combat Reflexes and at some point get Fencing Grace to use Dex for damage on your rapier.


Personally, I'm not a fan of Hammer the Gap. It's too luck-dependent for me. I'd grab Clustered Shots instead.

Bullseye Shot is nice if you have some trick arrows (like the tangleshot or the pheromone arrow) that you really, really want to hit. It combines

There are some nice new feats in the Ranged Tactics Toolbox, if you're allowed to use that. For example, there are several ranged combat maneuver feats in there. Also, since you can't pick up Improved Precise Shot until BAB 11, you might want to grab Far Shot and Lob Shot. It will help against cover penalties some.

Reckless Aim from Blood of Fiends has some potential, but you'd want to run it past your GM and group, since you have a chance of hitting your allies.

There's always Extra Grit if you run out of feats, too.


Sir Dante wrote:

Also starting with 47 000 gold with our lvl 7 characters, is +2 distance weapon for 18k worth it or too expensive?

What other items should I purchase beyond boots of speed?
[...]
Designating sounds great but it's very expensive, a possibility at later levels since it would do very well with my party since we have two dedicated melee character's. Distracting also would give the GM a headache which I am all for! Not literally but you get my point.

You can get a +1 Designating bow for the same cost as a +2 Distance bow--both are a total bonus of +3.


Gwen Smith wrote:
Sir Dante wrote:

Also starting with 47 000 gold with our lvl 7 characters, is +2 distance weapon for 18k worth it or too expensive?

What other items should I purchase beyond boots of speed?
[...]
Designating sounds great but it's very expensive, a possibility at later levels since it would do very well with my party since we have two dedicated melee character's. Distracting also would give the GM a headache which I am all for! Not literally but you get my point.
You can get a +1 Designating bow for the same cost as a +2 Distance bow--both are a total bonus of +3.

I know, but then I don't have a +2 but instead a +1 and those numerical bonuses are very useful.

Also can't choose clustered shots to level 5 or 6 since I don't meet the prerequisites of +6 BAB but for lvl 9 that might be a good choice. Maybe far shot for level 5? Or if possible go for TWF with two light crossbows?

Grand Lodge

I am planning on the following route for my bolt ace in my jade regent game... IB swash 1/ BA gunslinger 5/ Chevalier 3... No idea from there though.

Right now I'm level three but when I next level I'll have rapid shot and deadly aim my damage should get more impressive and then the big bump from Dex to damage just before gaining smite and fear immunity.


London Duke wrote:

I am planning on the following route for my bolt ace in my jade regent game... IB swash 1/ BA gunslinger 5/ Chevalier 3... No idea from there though.

Right now I'm level three but when I next level I'll have rapid shot and deadly aim my damage should get more impressive and then the big bump from Dex to damage just before gaining smite and fear immunity.

How has it been working at lower levels?

Is Chevalier a paladin archetype or how do you gain smite and fear immunity beyond that?

Grand Lodge

Now, its working great. I don't do much damage ATM with my xbow but like I said that will change soon. The thing I love is having a bigger grit pool and the attack dodging deeds. I have the same bolt ace changes as you. Be sure to have a stonebow to take care of zombies and skeletons.

Chevalier is a 3 level PRC for worshipers of Cayden. Its awesome and flavorful. I like playing my guy as a crackshot daredevil.


Wow, chevalier is pretty good. Unfortunately it wouldn't be allowed in many games because it comes from Second Darkness, which is 3.5 rules.

Grand Lodge

Fair enough but it works for me. :-)

I think its a great PRC to help shore up some defenses and is flavorful for the dashing swashbuckler/gunslinger.


Sir Dante wrote:
Also can't choose clustered shots to level 5 or 6 since I don't meet the prerequisites of +6 BAB but for lvl 9 that might be a good choice. Maybe far shot for level 5? Or if possible go for TWF with two light crossbows?

Sorry--I meant grab Clustered Shots instead of Hammer the Gap.

If you use the TWF feat to fight with two light crossbows, you'll still take the -2 for firing with one hand:

PRD wrote:
Normally, operating a light crossbow requires two hands. However, you can shoot, but not load, a light crossbow with one hand at a –2 penalty on attack rolls. You can shoot a light crossbow with each hand, but you take a penalty on attack rolls as if attacking with two light weapons. This penalty is cumulative with the penalty for one-handed firing.


and not all gm's will let you reload with two hands full these days. Seen some mess of arguments about those..
just as a note


Zwordsman wrote:

and not all gm's will let you reload with two hands full these days. Seen some mess of arguments about those..

just as a note

Yeah I know, understood from N.Jolly that one can pull it off with the tieflings prehensile tail and grasping tail feat. But is it worth it really? The -2 to gain one or two attacks more?


An unseen servant could do it for you?

Grand Lodge

I think for a normal group, in an AP or non-powergamer game, a single crossbow with deadly aim, rapid shot, vital strike (for when you can't full attack) and crossbow training is plenty powerful. You probably won't out damage a raging barbarian but you will be a strong group member with strong survival because of your deeds. I don't think you need to stress about twf and all that. I would HIGHLY suggest grabbing Iron Will at 9th level at the latest. Your will save will be abysmal.


London Duke wrote:
I think for a normal group, in an AP or non-powergamer game, a single crossbow with deadly aim, rapid shot, vital strike (for when you can't full attack) and crossbow training is plenty powerful. You probably won't out damage a raging barbarian but you will be a strong group member with strong survival because of your deeds. I don't think you need to stress about twf and all that. I would HIGHLY suggest grabbing Iron Will at 9th level at the latest. Your will save will be abysmal.

Yeah I'm troubled if I do too much damage with TWF light crossbows against touch AC. But it would be cool like the Demon Hunter in Diablo 3, dual wielding. Maybe I could take the feats since I have 2 to spare but only 1 if I pick tiefling as my race instead of Human.

Does the tail trick work?

Why do I need to grab Iron Will? With a two level monk dip my will save at level 7 with a +2 cloak is 9 so it's not too bad, could be better of course.


Ooze licker wrote:
An unseen servant could do it for you?

But then I would be relying on someone else to do it for me :S so sadly no.

Grand Lodge

I forgot you were taking the 2 level monk dip. Disregard Iron Will, your saves will be awesome. If you just focus on a single light crossbow you can save a feat on crossbow mastery because with rapid reload and a light crossbow is a free action to reload. If you really want, grab a large light xbow 2d6 would hurt. You are going to be fine in the damage department no matter what. Its a great archetype with your adjustments.


London Duke wrote:
I forgot you were taking the 2 level monk dip. Disregard Iron Will, your saves will be awesome. If you just focus on a single light crossbow you can save a feat on crossbow mastery because with rapid reload and a light crossbow is a free action to reload. If you really want, grab a large light xbow 2d6 would hurt. You are going to be fine in the damage department no matter what. Its a great archetype with your adjustments.

Can't one reload two light crossbows with just rapid reload and a grasping tail?

Somehow I was against it at first but now I actually like it and want to play with it :D... my inner hatred of D3 has turned into sickly love of the demon hunter concept of two crossbows?

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