2ndGenerationCleric |
So as a backup character for the run I'm in, I'm looking at building a Versatile Channeler Holy Vindicato, but have never been anything other than a cleric of Sarenrae, and the app I'm using doesn't have much on which deities have which domains. Suggestions?
And yes,this is similar to another thread in here, but I wrote once won't word and bow every answer I get doesn't help lol
Hmm |
I know that Magda will respond here in a moment, and her response will be ten times better than mine. However, what you are looking for is a neutral deity (on the good-evil axis.)
If you are interested in variant channeling, you will likely want a deity with rulership portfolio. Or be a separatist cleric of a neutral deity, and grab ale. (The only deity with ale portfolio is Cayden, and he's good.) Those are the two domains with the most interesting effects for variant channeling. Rulership allows you to mass daze foes. Ale allows you to get them all roaring drunk.
I am building my very first variant channeler character now. I went with Horus, so that I could go Feather domain with an animal companion, but there are other rulership deities that will work that are more core.
I hope that this helps!
Hmm
Some Other Guy |
I know that Magda will respond here in a moment, and her response will be ten times better than mine. However, what you are looking for is a neutral deity (on the good-evil axis.)
If you are interested in variant channeling, you will likely want a deity with rulership portfolio. Or be a separatist cleric of a neutral deity, and grab ale. (The only deity with ale portfolio is Cayden, and he's good.) Those are the two domains with the most interesting effects for variant channeling. Rulership allows you to mass daze foes. Ale allows you to get them all roaring drunk.
I am building my very first variant channeler character now. I went with Horus, so that I could go Feather domain with an animal companion, but there are other rulership deities that will work that are more core.
I hope that this helps!
Hmm
But you can never channel negative energy with Cayden.
BretI |
They thought you were going to combine them.
Any neutral god will suffice for versatile channeling. That allows you to channel either positive or negative energy. You still need to make the initial choice, since that determines what type of spells you can spontaneously substitute.
It you also use variant channeling, you can get some interesting harm effects.
Michael Talley 759 |
To really maximize the idea of Versatility with positive and Negative Energy Go with Pharasma taking the Domains Death & Healing
Since Versatile Channeling imposes a -2 level of effectiveness for your Channel Energy Ability I also recommend taking it at 3rd Level
Possible Feat List and Level
Domains; Death & Healing
Human Feat: Extra Channeling
1st: Selective Channeling
3rd: Versatile Channeling
5th: Channel Smite
7th: Spell Focus (Conjuration) [Cure Spells are Conjuration Magic]
9th: Spell Focus (Necromancy) [Inflict Spells are Necromancy]
11th: Augment Summoning
13th: Skeletal Summoning (turns summoned monsters to Skeletons, augment instead of adding to constitution adds to Charisma in most house rules)
15th: Channel Revival (should be able to do 6d6 positive energy at this level)
17th: Command Undead
Since most Adventure Paths just go to level 17 I'll limit the build of feats to that level, but this build Should make and keep a Neutral character of healing on both sides of the spectrum fairly easily and keep it fun for the player.
Death Domain Abilities
Bleeding Touch (Sp): As a melee touch attack, you can
cause a living creature to take 1d6 points of damage per
round. This effect persists for a number of rounds equal
to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum 1) or until stopped with a
DC 15 Heal check or any spell or effect that heals damage.
You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to
3 + your Wisdom modifier.
Death’s Embrace (Ex): At 8th level, you heal damage
instead of taking damage from channeled negative energy.
If the channeled negative energy targets undead, you heal
hit points just like undead in the area.
Healing Domain Abilities
(which also gives you the cure spells to cast not just inflicts)
Rebuke Death (Sp): You can touch a living creature as a
standard action, healing it for 1d4 points of damage plus
1 for every two cleric levels you possess. You can only use
this ability on a creature that is below 0 hit points. You can
use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your
Wisdom modifier.
Healer’s Blessing (Su): At 6th level, all of your cure spells
are treated as if they were empowered, increasing the
amount of damage healed by half (+50%). This does not
apply to damage dealt to undead with a cure spell. This
does not stack with the Empower Spell metamagic feat.
I've played a lot of clerics/healers over the years. Got to try building them for several different deities have to admit though, only recently started thinking about Pharasma Clerics and this topic shows up :D thanks :-)
TimD |
If you don't have Dr. Jones avoidance of snakes, I might recommend Nalinivati for a non-Pharasman neutral deity.
-TimD
Hmm |
Hmm wrote:Or be a separatist cleric of a neutral deity, and grab ale. (The only deity with ale portfolio is Cayden, and he's good.)But you can never channel negative energy with Cayden.
Agreed. That's why I suggested a separatist cleric of a neutral deity -- because Cayden is too good for versatile channeling! I realize now, though, that 'good' can be interpreted in multiple ways.
Sorry if I was unclear!
To the original poster:
Sorry for misunderstanding your intent. Most of the versatile channeling builds I see on these boards are also attempting to do variant channeling as well.
Hmm
Hmm |
I'm not sure which book established it first, but Inner Sea Gods has a detailed listing on her.
Since Pharasma despises undead, Pharasmin clerics with the Death domain replace the animate dead domain spell with speak with dead, replace create undead with antilife shell, and replace create greater undead with symbol of death. Clerics with the Souls subdomain (Advanced Player’s Guide 96) replace the animate dead domain spell with speak with dead.
Hmm
DominusMegadeus |
"Her priests are typically clerics, diviners, and necromancers that choose not to create undead. Her followers view the undead with hatred and consider them a great abomination. They view putting the undead to rest as a holy duty. The creation of undead is outlawed, and commanding undestroyed undead is not much liked either."
Gods and Magic, apparently.
Magda Luckbender |
The religion landing page on Pathfinderwiki.com lists all Golario deities cross referenced by alignment, domain, and subdomain.. That's what you're looking for. You want the list of deities with alignment Lawful Neutral, Neutral, or Chaotic Neutral.
@Hmm: Thank you for your undeserved confidence :-)
Michael Talley 759 |
A Pharasman Cleric summoning skeletons.
You fail Knowledge (Religion) forever.
Seems like a great way to remove undead to me. Summon them, not create them from somewhere in the world and force your enemies to destroy them. two birds one stone.
Never thought of Summon Monster as a means to create undead [just imagined a necromancer turns around and that Skeleton he just got finished creating vanishing due to a summon spell], although did forget about the commanding undead, but figured that would work well with destroying each other (undead versus undead) and then laying them to rest once the battle was over with channel positive energy
Some Other Guy |
DominusMegadeus wrote:A Pharasman Cleric summoning skeletons.
You fail Knowledge (Religion) forever.
Seems like a great way to remove undead to me. Summon them, not create them from somewhere in the world and force your enemies to destroy them. two birds one stone.
Never thought of Summon Monster as a means to create undead [just imagined a necromancer turns around and that Skeleton he just got finished creating vanishing due to a summon spell], although did forget about the commanding undead, but figured that would work well with destroying each other (undead versus undead) and then laying them to rest once the battle was over with channel positive energy
Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that. The creatures created by summoning subschool spells are not "real" and return from whence they came when they are reduced to 0 hit points. They aren't destroyed.
Bradley Mickle |
I played a Channeling Oracle Aasimar in Wrath of the Righteous. Channel Force (an aasimar feat) was absolutely amazing in that campaign. Unfortunately, you'll lose some power to channeling by being a cleric (lower Cha=lower DCs), but gives you much more control over the battlefield. And with Versatile Channeler, you would be much more useful in a variety of situations. Only issue is thematically, an aasimar channeling negative energy seems a bit incorrect thematically, but hey, just a concept.
Some Other Guy |
I played a Channeling Oracle Aasimar in Wrath of the Righteous. Channel Force (an aasimar feat) was absolutely amazing in that campaign. Unfortunately, you'll lose some power to channeling by being a cleric (lower Cha=lower DCs), but gives you much more control over the battlefield. And with Versatile Channeler, you would be much more useful in a variety of situations. Only issue is thematically, an aasimar channeling negative energy seems a bit incorrect thematically, but hey, just a concept.
Aasimar are just as subject to morality as any other race. A neutral aligned aasimar is perfectly reasonable. That aside, oracles cannot take versatile channeler. It's restricted to clerics.
Bradley Mickle |
Bradley Mickle wrote:I played a Channeling Oracle Aasimar in Wrath of the Righteous. Channel Force (an aasimar feat) was absolutely amazing in that campaign. Unfortunately, you'll lose some power to channeling by being a cleric (lower Cha=lower DCs), but gives you much more control over the battlefield. And with Versatile Channeler, you would be much more useful in a variety of situations. Only issue is thematically, an aasimar channeling negative energy seems a bit incorrect thematically, but hey, just a concept.Aasimar are just as subject to morality as any other race. A neutral aligned aasimar is perfectly reasonable. That aside, oracles cannot take versatile channeler. It's restricted to clerics.
I'm sorry, I didn't make that clear. Correct, Versatile Channeler requires cleric or necromancer, which is why I included the comment about lower charisma. Thank you for clarifying that point, however. On the positive, at least aasimar (default variant) gets +2 to Wisdom and Cha.
Hmm |
Well my DM specifically didn't let me use the inner sea gods book when making my cleric of Sarenrae,so if that's the only place the rules say I can't summon undead with Pharasma as my deity, then I could totally do that. Mwa ha ha.
Sad to say, it is not. There are also mentions of it in Gods and Magic and in Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign setting.
However, I don't think that everyone reads up on the gods that their clerics characters worship. I came across someone else in PFS who was an undead summoner who worshipped Pharasma. The GM didn't call them on it, and I decided that it was not my place to bring it up...
Hmm
Michael Talley 759 |
2ndGenerationCleric wrote:Well my DM specifically didn't let me use the inner sea gods book when making my cleric of Sarenrae,so if that's the only place the rules say I can't summon undead with Pharasma as my deity, then I could totally do that. Mwa ha ha.Sad to say, it is not. There are also mentions of it in Gods and Magic and in Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign setting.
However, I don't think that everyone reads up on the gods that their clerics characters worship. I came across someone else in PFS who was an undead summoner who worshipped Pharasma. The GM didn't call them on it, and I decided that it was not my place to bring it up...
Hmm
well re-reading up on Pharasma was a bit fun, and while it says creating undead is taboo, does state that controlling undead for the purpose of destroying them is allowed. Summoning doesn't seem to be a form of creation, and if you summon undead instead of create with the intent of them being destroyed that seems about the same as controlling them to be destroyed. Since summoning is not a creation of effect as far as I can tell. Technically the build seems good.
But Then again a person could just choose to be a cleric with the domains and not follow any deity by the rules as well allowing for complete freedom in the use of the powers, although that requires GM permission since some GM would want full immersion into the setting
2ndGenerationCleric |
2ndGenerationCleric wrote:Well my DM specifically didn't let me use the inner sea gods book when making my cleric of Sarenrae,so if that's the only place the rules say I can't summon undead with Pharasma as my deity, then I could totally do that. Mwa ha ha.Sad to say, it is not. There are also mentions of it in Gods and Magic and in Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign setting.
However, I don't think that everyone reads up on the gods that their clerics characters worship. I came across someone else in PFS who was an undead summoner who worshipped Pharasma. The GM didn't call them on it, and I decided that it was not my place to bring it up...
Hmm
We only have access to the Core, APG, ACG, as well as Ultimate magic, equipment, and combat. Think I'm in the clear
Magda Luckbender |
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It seems a horrible idea to play a cleric, choose a deity, then deliberately do stuff that's on the edge of what that deity especially abhors. If you're going to summon undead just don't choose Pharasma as your deity.
Outside of PFS, where GMs must attempt to follow RAW, were I your GM I would totally smite you for that sort of behavior. On a first offense I imagine Pharasma would just refuse to grant you the offending summoning spell again for, say, a year. On the second offense, Pharasma would defrock you and make you an ex-cleric of Pharasma.
Your GM may, or may not, feel differently. It's certainly walking a very dangerous line for no good reason.
Michael Talley 759 |
It seems a horrible idea to play a cleric, choose a deity, then deliberately do stuff that's on the edge of what that deity especially abhors. If you're going to summon undead just don't choose Pharasma as your deity.
Outside of PFS, where GMs must attempt to follow RAW, were I your GM I would totally smite you for that sort of behavior. On a first offense I imagine Pharasma would just refuse to grant you the offending summoning spell again for, say, a year. On the second offense, Pharasma would defrock you and make you an ex-cleric of Pharasma.
Your GM may, or may not, feel differently. It's certainly walking a very dangerous line for no good reason.
True enough and I can understand that since there is some issues about summoning being a form of creation instead of strict Conjuration effect.
But it does make sense for someone not to summon what they abhor. Suppose instead of taking Summon Skeletons a person could just take improved channel gain a +2 to the difficulty to resist or Turn undead since the Gods book does state that Command undead can be used so long as it lead to the destruction of Undead.Although generally I just play a Word Casting Arcane Healer Far better support healer in my opinion than a standard cleric as it gives great healing power at range instead of just touch and they still have inspire courage which helps ones allies. :D
Mostly been helping a new GM learning PFS right now. When I explained the idea about summoning/conjuration brought up many jokes about how creatures being teleported to a location and forced to fight to the death for the summoner as they are under a compulsion to do so. Which had a player summoning Ponies to fight Giant Scorpions. (Which then became a rather amusing joke about the ponies being from a certain series and wondering how long before that player worked their way through it's town)
2ndGenerationCleric |
It seems a horrible idea to play a cleric, choose a deity, then deliberately do stuff that's on the edge of what that deity especially abhors. If you're going to summon undead just don't choose Pharasma as your deity.
Outside of PFS, where GMs must attempt to follow RAW, were I your GM I would totally smite you for that sort of behavior. On a first offense I imagine Pharasma would just refuse to grant you the offending summoning spell again for, say, a year. On the second offense, Pharasma would defrock you and make you an ex-cleric of Pharasma.
Your GM may, or may not, feel differently. It's certainly walking a very dangerous line for no good reason.
Well for one, it's an interesting concept in general. No other deity I'm aware of allows access to both heal and death domains. It'll make for some interesting character building and interactions,not to mention be more interesting to play. I've been in the same run for almost a year and a half and we're about a quarter of the way through. I play a heal bot cleric now after my GM killed both my reach clerics in ways hero points couldn't revive. So I'm looking for something interesting to do
Vashti Amela |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Well my DM specifically didn't let me use the inner sea gods book when making my cleric of Sarenrae,so if that's the only place the rules say I can't summon undead with Pharasma as my deity, then I could totally do that. Mwa ha ha.
No dear, Our Lady of Graves is rather intolerant of such things.
However, you may have some other options.
Healing is a solid domain as is Death, but neither grant anything more than that which you would have for being a cleric.
Have you considered the Sacred Sting, Calistria?
CN alignment lets you get Versatile Channel, domains of Chaos, Charm, Knowledge, Luck, Trickery and Subdomains Azata, Curse, Deception, Lust, Memory, Thievery provide a wealth of other options.
And the Sacred Sting has no qualms about the undead!
If you are interested in those icky things, check out Brewer Guide to Undead in Zenith's Guide to Guides.
Renegadeshepherd |
Have you considered a envoy of balance 4/cleric 8/holy vindicator 8 of Pharisma build?
This would allow you to channel both energies at the same time, practically all healing is empowered or boosted, high level of AC with channelled shield and heavy armor, and more. Many archetypes help here as well.
Crusader is very good to get Heavy armor and a number of shield bonuses for free. Evangelist is good at early levels but costs you late in game. Seperatist also good for variant channeling options.
2ndGenerationCleric |
Sacred Sting,huh? Will need to check that out,though I think losing the enlisted healing will be bad,thus I wanted healing.
Have you considered a envoy of balance 4/cleric 8/holy vindicator 8 of Pharisma build?
This would allow you to channel both energies at the same time, practically all healing is empowered or boosted, high level of AC with channelled shield and heavy armor, and more. Many archetypes help here as well.
Crusader is very good to get Heavy armor and a number of shield bonuses for free. Evangelist is good at early levels but costs you late in game. Seperatist also good for variant channeling options.
Will need to look into this as well, though is that a level 22 character?lol
As for being a heal bot-im a merciful healer. It's great for providing heals. But that's it.
Vashti Amela |
Everyone loves the healer.
But that does not mean you have to be a heal bot, so to speak.
You can spontaneously convert your spell to cure, so that's a plus.
As much as Our Lady provides power to me, Healing is a little...soft.
The domain spells are ones that I can already cast on the fly and the domain powers are mild.
If you are going Holy Vindicator, there would be some overlap with the empowering of cure spells and I do not believe they would stack, but I could be incorrect.
Calistra's domains can provide some excellent buffs and debuffs that remain relevant for many levels.
Abadar can also be a good choice for the more orderly minded.
Nethys also provides so great possiblities as well, Arcane and Divine are both excellent domains!
Just ideas to check out, cleric should not just be a walking ouchy mender, unless that is the role you choose to play.
Like me!
Some Other Guy |
Sacred Sting,huh? Will need to check that out,though I think losing the enlisted healing will be bad,thus I wanted healing.
Renegadeshepherd wrote:Have you considered a envoy of balance 4/cleric 8/holy vindicator 8 of Pharisma build?
This would allow you to channel both energies at the same time, practically all healing is empowered or boosted, high level of AC with channelled shield and heavy armor, and more. Many archetypes help here as well.
Crusader is very good to get Heavy armor and a number of shield bonuses for free. Evangelist is good at early levels but costs you late in game. Seperatist also good for variant channeling options.
Will need to look into this as well, though is that a level 22 character?lol
As for being a heal bot-im a merciful healer. It's great for providing heals. But that's it.
With merciful healer, you can't pick death as a domain. You only get healing.
Michael Talley 759 |
A great healer feat from 3.5 transfered is Augment healing. If allowed to use the pathfinder requirement is one rank in the heal skill. The effect causes healing spells to heal 2 extra HP per spell level of effect. Cure light at level one would heal 1d8+3. Cure moderate at level 3 would heal 2d8+7 and so on.
Renegadeshepherd |
A thought.... Shyka. Far better second domain to complement death domain than Pharisma with you having a happy choice between madness and magic/divine. It's stupid but fun for you to charge to the front line get whacked on the head just to cure yourself and then as a swift give bonuses to the party.
2ndGenerationCleric |
2ndGenerationCleric wrote:With merciful healer, you can't pick death as a domain. You only get healing.Sacred Sting,huh? Will need to check that out,though I think losing the enlisted healing will be bad,thus I wanted healing.
Renegadeshepherd wrote:Have you considered a envoy of balance 4/cleric 8/holy vindicator 8 of Pharisma build?
This would allow you to channel both energies at the same time, practically all healing is empowered or boosted, high level of AC with channelled shield and heavy armor, and more. Many archetypes help here as well.
Crusader is very good to get Heavy armor and a number of shield bonuses for free. Evangelist is good at early levels but costs you late in game. Seperatist also good for variant channeling options.
Will need to look into this as well, though is that a level 22 character?lol
As for being a heal bot-im a merciful healer. It's great for providing heals. But that's it.
I'm currently a merciful healer. This is all for my backup character.
Michael Talley 759 |
OH! btw if your just interested in doing damage/heal on a major scales a few feat changes and your on your way again.
Domains; Death & Healing
Human Feat: Extra Channeling
1st: Selective Channeling
3rd: Versatile Channeling
5th: Channel Smite (Bonus of damage equal to dice number at this level +3?)
7th: Improved Channel Smite (Provides pool of damage dice ie/ 4d6)
9th: Elemental Channel
11th: Alignment Channel
13th: Quick Channel (expend 2 uses of Channeling to perform as a move action)
15th: Channel Revival (should be able to do 6d6 positive energy at this level)
17th: Improved Channeling
This creates a cleric that can heal or damage pretty much anything in the living / undead ranges. Still not much against Constructs (unless their outsiders or undead ^^;)
Sure most here
Death Domain Abilities
Bleeding Touch (Sp): As a melee touch attack, you can
cause a living creature to take 1d6 points of damage per
round. This effect persists for a number of rounds equal
to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum 1) or until stopped with a
DC 15 Heal check or any spell or effect that heals damage.
You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to
3 + your Wisdom modifier.
Death’s Embrace (Ex): At 8th level, you heal damage
instead of taking damage from channeled negative energy.
If the channeled negative energy targets undead, you heal
hit points just like undead in the area.
Healing Domain Abilities
(which also gives you the cure spells to cast not just inflicts)
Rebuke Death (Sp): You can touch a living creature as a
standard action, healing it for 1d4 points of damage plus
1 for every two cleric levels you possess. You can only use
this ability on a creature that is below 0 hit points. You can
use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your
Wisdom modifier.
Healer’s Blessing (Su): At 6th level, all of your cure spells
are treated as if they were empowered, increasing the
amount of damage healed by half (+50%). This does not
apply to damage dealt to undead with a cure spell. This
does not stack with the Empower Spell metamagic feat.