Help my Phalanx Soldier.


Advice


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

So, due to a suggestion in my Weapons of a Monster Hunter conversion thread I've decided to build a tower shield and sarissa wielding fighter. I'm well aware this isn't the most optimal build, but the image is just too cool not to use; even if he can't actually wield both at the same time for the first two levels.

Race: Human (racial bonus to strength)

Str: 18 (10 points)
Dex: 14 (5 points)
Con: 12 (2 points)
Int: 13 (3 points)
Wis: 12 (2 points)
Cha: 8 (-2 points)

Phalanx Soldier 1: Weapon Focus (sarissa), Power Attack, Shield Focus
Phalanx Soldier 2: Combat Reflexes
Phalanx Soldier 3: Combat Expertise
Phalanx Soldier 4: +1 Intelligence, Weapon Specialization (sarissa)
Phalanx Soldier 5: Iron Will
Phalanx Soldier 6: Improved Overrun
Phalanx Soldier 7: Lightning Reflexes
Phalanx Soldier 8: +1 Strength, Greater Weapon Focus (sarissa)
Phalanx Soldier 9: Greater Shield Focus
Phalanx Soldier 10: Improved Critical (sarissa)
Phalanx Soldier 11: Charge Through
Phalanx Soldier 12: +1 Strength, Improved Bull Rush
Phalanx Soldier 13: Harder They Fall
Phalanx Soldier 14: Greater Bull Rush
Phalanx Soldier 15: Greater Overrun
Phalanx Soldier 16: +1 Strength, Giant-Killer Stance
Phalanx Soldier 17: Missile Shield
Phalanx Soldier 18: Disruptive
Phalanx Soldier 19: Spellbreaker
Phalanx Soldier 20: +1 Dexterity, Ray Shield

Suggestions for how to make the build better are appreciated.

Shadow Lodge

-If you multiclass bloodrager (aberrant bloodline) you can get an extra 5ft to threathen for a total of 15ft reach

-If you become half orc you can get toothy so you can threathen at 5ft

- Other option is not using tower shield and going spiked shield so you can attack at 5ft too

- spiked armor is also an option


I think it's imperative that you get Catch Off-Guard or Improvised Weapon Mastery to use the Sarissa as an improvised weapon when an enemy gets within close quarters.

I recommend the Bodyguard feat too, that would have synergy with the rest of your kit.

Is Shield Focus and Greater Shield Focus even worth it? I mean, by the time you get Ray Shield, you also get Evasion and Improved Evasion.

Stats look fine, not sure if the INT investment is worth it (you are not particularly great at any check really, with heavy armor and a tower shield ruining your DEX and STR checks), perhaps you're better off dumping CHA to 7 and getting DEX to 15 to boost it to 16 at level 4.

Silver Crusade

Perhaps trim starting strength to 17 and boost CON to 14. Boost STR to 18 at level 4. You'll constantly be in the thick of melee combat, so invest in good HP.

Consider dipping a level of something, for that 'something special'. Were you a caster you would not want to do this, but you are a Fighter. Some examples, in no particular order:

* One or two levels of Barbarian, for the offensive boost.

* One or more levels of any other full-bab martial class. Whatever suits your style. Cavalier gives you some excellent options in Teamwork feats.

* Dip one level of Cleric. There's even a guide. One does this largely for the Domains but also for ready access to healing magic. The Plant(Growth) Domain, available to several common deities, gives a Swift Action Enlarge Person, which is fantastic for a reach fighter. Travel Domain increases movement by 10' and gives access to Longstrider.

* Three levels of Zen Archer, and be an excellent archer as well as a phalanx warrior. Possibly some synchronicity there.

* After hitting Phalanx Soldier level 3, the big level, you could even take one level of Divination Wizard then take a few levels of the Eldritch Knight prestige class [link to guide]. Always act in the surprise round. Your intelligence is already decent, and you plan to increase it. Your combat progression could be almost identical to your current plan, absent a feat or two. At 14th level you would have +13 BaB and also cast spells as a 10th level wizard, needing at least a 15 Intelligence.

Of course, if you did some of these things you would not be a 'pure' phalanx soldier :-) Not sure how important that is to you. These suggestions are intended to enhance the unique Phalanx Soldier combat style. It's one of the few ways to wield both a polearm and a shield.


Magda Luckbender wrote:

Perhaps trim starting strength to 17 and boost CON to 14. Boost STR to 18 at level 4. You'll constantly be in the thick of melee combat, so invest in good HP.

Consider dipping a level of something, for that 'something special'. Were you a caster you would not want to do this, but you are a Fighter. Some examples, in no particular order:

* One or two levels of Barbarian, for the offensive boost.

* One or more levels of any other full-bab martial class. Whatever suits your style. Cavalier gives you some excellent options in Teamwork feats.

* Dip one level of Cleric. There's even a guide. One does this largely for the Domains but also for ready access to healing magic. The Plant(Growth) Domain, available to several common deities, gives a Swift Action Enlarge Person, which is fantastic for a reach fighter. Travel Domain increases movement by 10' and gives access to Longstrider.

* Three levels of Zen Archer, and be an excellent archer as well as a phalanx warrior. Possibly some synchronicity there.

* After hitting Phalanx Soldier level 3, the big level, you could even take one level of Divination Wizard then take a few levels of the Eldritch Knight prestige class [link to guide]. Always act in the surprise round. Your intelligence is already decent, and you plan to increase it. Your combat progression could be almost identical to your current plan, absent a feat or two. At 14th level you would have +13 BaB and also cast spells as a 10th level wizard, needing at least a 15 Intelligence.

Of course, if you did some of these things you would not be a 'pure' phalanx soldier :-) Not sure how important that is to you. These suggestions are intended to enhance the unique Phalanx Soldier combat style. It's one of the few ways to wield both a polearm and a shield.

Admiral Akbar says: TRAPS.

1. Barbarians have very limited rage rounds per day at early levels and impose the crippling fatigued penalty. The one exception I'd make is a Steelblood Barbarian to offset some of the penalty you get to movement.

2. Cavalier's Tactician is pretty much doodoo until level 18. Plus the big payoff for Phalanx Soldier is the +4 to overrun and bullrush CMB at later levels and you are just setting that off for literally nothing a Fighter couldn't have easily picked up. I could see an exception for Slayer but it really doesn't have that many appealing things going for it as a dip.

3. Travel Domain cleric could be good for the movement, but I'd recommend against limited round features like Growth Domain's. Plus it's lost BAB.

4. Don't see what much would this guy gain from Zen Archer. Seems like he's better off getting more stuff to exploit its melee tools rather than losing potential to be pretty half-assed at something else.

5. Eldritch Knight's take full arcane failure penalty. What's the point of using a shield if it's gonna make your spells fail? Rather than take a level in Diviner, just work with the team - get Coordinated Charge or something.

I could see:

- 3 levels in Phalanx, then move onto Steelblood Barbarian ALTOGETHER for cool rage powers and utility.

- 3 levels in Phalanx, then move onto Slayer altogether to get quick combat style feats for Spear and Board fighting, then using the free bull rushes to make enemies open for Sneak Attack.

- 3 levels in Phalanx, then go Steelblood Bloodrager with the Aberrant Bloodline to get 15-20 feet reach.

- Full Phalanx.

Silver Crusade

Yes, several of the suggestion I offered were TRAPS, it's true. I think it depend how many levels you actually intend to play, and the game style.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Secret Wizard wrote:
Stats look fine, not sure if the INT investment is worth it (you are not particularly great at any check really, with heavy armor and a tower shield ruining your DEX and STR checks), perhaps you're better off dumping CHA to 7 and getting DEX to 15 to boost it to 16 at level 4.

I was planning on investing more into non-class skills such as Knowledge (arcana), and Knowledge (nature) to better fit the concept of someone who goes out into the wilds to hunt various monsters and has learned their weaknesses (realize that lore warden would be better for that but what can you do, the archetypes don't stack). I figured the extra skill rank/level (and 4 skill ranks upon boosting to 14) would be useful to focus on my movement skills. Which if needed, I could use a move action to stow my shield dropping the penalty by a lot. I also was planning to spring for mithral full-plate at my earliest opportunity as well as possibly a darkwood tower shield. Though I might just drop the point of Charisma to boost one of my 12 stats to a 13. Maybe Wisdom as 1 point of Constitution won't affect my HP. Come to think of it maybe I should go for an agile half-plate rather than full-plate?

Quote:
Is Shield Focus and Greater Shield Focus even worth it? I mean, by the time you get Ray Shield, you also get Evasion and Improved Evasion.

Good points, I originally grabbed them to max out my AC, but with the preponderance of Save-or-Die/Suck effects at high levels they might just not be worth it. In that case I might just do as you suggested and pick up Catch Off-Guard and Bodyguard instead. I might also drop Improved Critical to get access to Harder They Fall earlier because it simply isn't as big an improvement as for an 18-20 crit range weapon. I've also been assuming Pathfinder Society style HP (6 + Con mod for each level above 1st in this character's case).

With these changes in mind.

Lance wielder take 2:
Race: Human (racial bonus to strength)

Str: 18 (10 points)
Dex: 14 (5 points)
Con: 12 (2 points)
Int: 14 (5 points)
Wis: 12 (2 points)
Cha: 7 (-4 points)

Phalanx Soldier 1: +1 Skills (Acrobatics, Climb, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival) Weapon Focus (sarissa), Power Attack, Catch Off-Guard
Phalanx Soldier 2: +1 Skills (Acrobatics, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [dungeoneering], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Swim), Combat Reflexes
Phalanx Soldier 3: +1 Skills (Acrobatics, Climb, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival), Combat Expertise
Phalanx Soldier 4: +1 Skills (Acrobatics, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [dungeoneering], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival), +1 Dexterity, Weapon Specialization (sarissa)
Phalanx Soldier 5: +1 Skills (Acrobatics, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival, Swim), Iron Will
Phalanx Soldier 6: +1 Skills (Acrobatics, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival, Swim), Improved Overrun
Phalanx Soldier 7: +1 Skills (Acrobatics, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [dungeoneering], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Swim), Lightning Reflexes
Phalanx Soldier 8: +1 Skills (Acrobatics, Climb, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival), +1 Strength, Greater Weapon Focus (sarissa)
Phalanx Soldier 9: +1 Skills (Acrobatics, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival, Swim), Bodyguard
Phalanx Soldier 10: +1 Skills (Acrobatics, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [dungeoneering], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival), Harder They Fall
Phalanx Soldier 11: +1 Skills (Climb, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival, Swim), Charge Through
Phalanx Soldier 12: +1 Skills (Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [dungeoneering], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival, Swim), +1 Strength, Improved Bull Rush
Phalanx Soldier 13: +1 Skills (Climb, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival, Swim), Disruptive
Phalanx Soldier 14: +1 Skills (Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [dungeoneering], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival, Swim), Greater Bull Rush
Phalanx Soldier 15: +1 Skills (Climb, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival, Swim), Greater Overrun
Phalanx Soldier 16: +1 Skills (Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [dungeoneering], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival, Swim), +1 Strength, Giant-Killer Stance
Phalanx Soldier 17: +1 Skills (Climb, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival, Swim), Skill Focus (acrobatics)
Phalanx Soldier 18: +1 Skills (Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [dungeoneering], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival, Swim), Spellbreaker
Phalanx Soldier 19: +1 Skills (Climb, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival, Swim), ???
Phalanx Soldier 20: +1 Skills (Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [dungeoneering], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival, Swim), +1 Constitution, ???

The question marks represent free feat slots.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I had been thinking of taking Fast Learner as I start with the requisite intelligence, let's see if I can fit it in at first level somehow without significantly delaying anything.

Lance wielder take 2.5:
Race: Human (racial bonus to strength)

Str: 18 (10 points)
Dex: 14 (5 points)
Con: 12 (2 points)
Int: 14 (5 points)
Wis: 12 (2 points)
Cha: 7 (-4 points)

Phalanx Soldier 1: +1 Skills (Acrobatics, Climb, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival) Weapon Focus (sarissa), Fast Learner, Catch Off-Guard
Phalanx Soldier 2: +1 Skills (Acrobatics, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [dungeoneering], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Swim), Combat Reflexes
Phalanx Soldier 3: +1 Skills (Acrobatics, Climb, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival), Combat Expertise
Phalanx Soldier 4: +1 Skills (Acrobatics, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [dungeoneering], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival), +1 Dexterity, Weapon Specialization (sarissa)
Phalanx Soldier 5: +1 Skills (Acrobatics, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival, Swim), Iron Will
Phalanx Soldier 6: +1 Skills (Acrobatics, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival, Swim), Power Attack
Phalanx Soldier 7: +1 Skills (Acrobatics, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [dungeoneering], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Swim), Lightning Reflexes
Phalanx Soldier 8: +1 Skills (Acrobatics, Climb, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival), +1 Strength, Greater Weapon Focus (sarissa)
Phalanx Soldier 9: +1 Skills (Acrobatics, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival, Swim), Bodyguard
Phalanx Soldier 10: +1 Skills (Acrobatics, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [dungeoneering], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival), Harder They Fall
Phalanx Soldier 11: +1 Skills (Climb, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival, Swim), Improved Overrun
Phalanx Soldier 12: +1 Skills (Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [dungeoneering], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival, Swim), +1 Strength, Charge Through
Phalanx Soldier 13: +1 Skills (Climb, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival, Swim), Improved Bull Rush
Phalanx Soldier 14: +1 Skills (Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [dungeoneering], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival, Swim), Greater Bull Rush
Phalanx Soldier 15: +1 Skills (Climb, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival, Swim), Greater Overrun
Phalanx Soldier 16: +1 Skills (Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [dungeoneering], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival, Swim), +1 Strength, Disruptive
Phalanx Soldier 17: +1 Skills (Climb, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival, Swim), Skill Focus (acrobatics)
Phalanx Soldier 18: +1 Skills (Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [dungeoneering], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival, Swim), Spellbreaker
Phalanx Soldier 19: +1 Skills (Climb, Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival, Swim), Giant-Killer Stance
Phalanx Soldier 20: +1 Skills (Knowledge [arcana], Knowledge [dungeoneering], Knowledge [geography], Knowledge [nature], Survival, Swim), +1 Constitution, Pack Attack


Seems good. I would take Surprise Weapon as a trait for the +2 to hit with improvised weapons.

Other trait should probably be Principled.

Scarab Sages

What about Brawler. The Exemplar archetype even gets tactician and a weaker bard buff, if I remember correctly


Tactician is a shit feature. The only usable version is the Vanguard Slayer's.

Scarab Sages

Care to elaborate? Giving allies even a few rounds of feats like precise strike (if your is big on melee) sounds cool to me. Especially it can with Martial Flexibility.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Choon, while Brawler makes several interesting concepts possible; it isn't what I'm going for with this character. I will keep it in mind for a different character though.


I personally like the idea of Phalanx 3 / Daring Champion; attach a banner to your polearm, strap a buckler to your arm and you are set for combat.

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