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So there are, apparently, a number of errors with the Beastiary 2 entry for Weretiger (pg. 183).
When compared to the rules for creating a lycanthrope in the Beastiary 1 (pg. 196), it appears as if the following are wrong in Beastiary 2;
1. CR: it should be same as base creature or animal (whichever is higher) +1. A Tiger is CR 4, a Weretiger Rogue 4 is also CR 4 (me thinks it should be CR 5, or even higher if you use the rules fir advancing a monster by adding class levels).
2. Size: in hybrid form a lycanthrope should be the same size as the base creature or animal; whichever is larger. A tiger is size large. Weretiger is medium.
3. Natural attacks: the Weretiger should gain all the attacks, including special attacks of the base animal when in hybrid form. The Weretiger entry does not list Pounce or Rake.
Assuming a Weretiger can use pounce or rake: these attacks should qualify for sneak attack, even in animal form, right? (Assuming they meet the criteria to be eligible for sneak attacks).
Thanks in advance.
My take on it in the Bestiary 2 errata thread.
PS
Any attack meeting the parameters of Sneak Attack can be used as a Sneak Attack. Being a manufactured weapon or natural attack doesn't change anything.
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Thanks, but your re-written stat block for the Weretiger also doesn't list rake/pounce (at least I didn't see it).
Basically my main concern is the CR. I have a story arc planned that climaxes with an encounter against a Weretiger that I don't want to end in a TPK (because the CR is too low) or a walk in the park (because the CR is falsely inflated).
My plan was to switch the rogue levels for ninja and change up the talents for tricks.. I want it to be Epic (APL +3) and to be honest I think the creature would fairly easily wipe the floor with a 1st level party... I'm guessing the actual CR is more like 5 or 6, maybe even 7 (depending how you view the class levels)
Doesn't sound like much, but at low levels it is significant
True, yes, it should have Pounce and Rake. Odd, because in my personal sheet I have them added, must have been a later addition.
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Okay, so I just checked the Beastiary 2 listing on the official PRD site and they have pounce/rake listed (I guess my hardcover version is an older printing)... But I'm struggling with the idea that a creature with DR 10/Silver, 3 primary natural attacks, pounce, rake, and 2d6 sneak attack is CR4...
Even if I make intentionally poor decisions and don't use any tactics at all (which would be out of character for an intelligent creature), I don't see how it could end in any way except a TPK if I try and run it as an epic encounter.
Am I wrong to think that?
Okay, so I just checked the Beastiary 2 listing on the official PRD site and they have pounce/rake listed (I guess my hardcover version is an older printing)... But I'm struggling with the idea that a creature with DR 10/Silver, 3 primary natural attacks, pounce, rake, and 2d6 sneak attack is CR4...
Even if I make intentionally poor decisions and don't use any tactics at all (which would be out of character for an intelligent creature), I don't see how it could end in any way except a TPK if I try and run it as an epic encounter.
Am I wrong to think that?
1. These are level 1 characters. I don't run APL+3 for any group below level 3.
2. CR alone is not enough to determine if a creature is an ok opponent for a group.
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The problem with a epic encounter against 1st level characters is that it is extremely easy to get one or more deaths in the party and the encounters are extremely swinging as a die roll can change the outcome.
Extreme example 1: the party is in a loose formation with charging lanes, the weretiger is hiding in ambush, she roll well on her stealth check and get a result of 26. The guys with perception as a class skill don't have a +2 bonus from wisdom so no one can spot her even with a natural 20.
The weretigere make a partial charge in the surprise round, pounce and deliver Bite 2d6+6+2d6 sneak attack, claw 2 x 1d8+6+2d6, rake 2 x 1d8+6+2d6. Even if only half of the attacks hit we are speaking of 35-40 hp of damage. A first level character will surely die from that.
The weretiger win initiative, charge and pounce another opponent and kill him too.
Extreme example 2:
The weretiger roll poorly on his stealth check and get a total of 12, the player have maximized perception, and one of the traits that make it a class skill, they roll average numbers and notice the weretiger.
The wizard win initiative, cast color spray, the weretiger fail his save (+4 vs a DC of 15, 50% chance) and she is blinded and stunned for 1d4 rounds (let's say 2) and then stunned for another round.
The guy with the +1 2 handed weapon charge and deliver 2d6+6+3 (power attack)+1(magic) = 17 hp of damage, reduced to 7 for the DR.
The rogue whip out the silver dagger the party found.
1st regular combat round: the 2 handler deliver another 7 point of damage, the wizard use acid splash for 2 points of damage, the rogue stab the weretiger for 1d4-1(silver)+1d6 (sneak attack)= 6 hp of damage, total damage at this point, 22 hp.
Next round: at the wizard initiative the blindness end, but the tiger is still stunned. They need to hit with only 2 attacks to finish her.
1 single die roll will change the encounter.
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My suggestion: at this level a epic encounter work better with several enemies CR 1 or less mooks and a CR 2 or 3 boss without special powers.
Or, if he has special powers, one that can do only a low number of hp of damage.