Chris Shaeffer RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Hodge Podge |
Covent Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 |
Browman Dedicated Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 |
nkerklaan Star Voter Season 8 |
I'm finding rules only come into play for me if something is really obviously broken. Other than that, I'm most impressed when what the item does makes sense with its flavor, and if the prose is simple and readable. Format's important, but it's more a tie-breaker between two good items.
I think basically this all boils down to: would this seem out-of-place in a professionally-published supplement? If yes, it's not necessarily superstar, but that's enough to give it the advantage over something for which the answer is no.
I've found a few insane things that I just have to vote for, though. Insanity is my Achilles heel.
Moik Marathon Voter Season 8 |
I found myself checking price first by the end of the voting session. A lot of things sounded decent until I got to the end and realized a level 3 character could be running around a way to solo an EL5 combat kind of thing. So I ended up checking the prices first to know beforehand if I should be thinking about the item from a munchkin-exploits point of view. 'Cause some of the effects would be perfectly fitting and desirable for level 10 characters to be running around with. But a lot of the time they're priced way below that using WBL.
boldstar Star Voter Season 8 |
Lightminder Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8 |
IcedMik Dedicated Voter Season 7 |
I'm finding myself very often thinking, "this is dumb...wait, no, I see what they're doing with this. That's really cool!" There's been more entries that I wish I had thought of than I had hoped there'd be.
Additionally, there's quite a few, "oh man, this item is really cool, but the template is completely off, and there is flavour text all over, and where did you get that price from," that I have to vote for because they're fun, but still make me mad.
Also, I've had at least three items name-drop the Linnorm Kings in their flavour. Odd.
Snorter |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I've not started voting yet, but I've promised myself I won't be auto-rejecting any item simply for being one of those that "could have been a wondrous item, in another form.".
Yes, it's true that some of these effects could have been made in a non-ring/weapon/armor/staff/rod form, but so what?
A ring that offers an abjuration effect could have been a cloak, but that doesn't invalidate its existence in ring form as well.*
A weapon that seeks out hidden enemies could have been a pair of goggles, but so what?*
If anything, the fault lies with the rules for Wondrous Items being far too lax. If people weren't being encouraged to make Anyshaped-Do-Anything Whackadoodles for the last 14 years, there wouldn't be as much crossover.
*not actual submitted items, as far as I know.
Luthia Dedicated Voter Season 8 |
For me, voting goes like:
Check 1: First impression.
Enormous template errors (I dislike not having aura, caster level, price, etc enormously, at this point I'm not looking much at bolds or italics or such). Name (really, a good name does wonders, a bad one or one that makes me worry about being from somewhere else gets me in a bad mood, not instant down vote mood, but not good chances).
Check 2: The Text.
Then, ignoring template, aura, construction, etc. I read the core text. Important things here including no excessive back story (I just can't use more than 2 lines of it for anything), being understandable (I have to at least get where you're going, not necessarily all the fine details, but if my general feeling is "huh? what does this even want to do?", I'm pretty much out), spelling (one error is human, two or more is sloppy and has no place here), concept (do I like it? Would my typical players use this?), being unique (if it does something I have never seen before and I wish that I had seen before, that's pretty much perfect) and so many other details. I look for really just wondrous items in disguise (mostly in weapons, armors and staffs, rings and rods get away with somewhat more), spell in a can, swiss army knife, random items and other things that someone who had looked even a little at the forums would surely have been careful to do. If the item isn't impressive and does anything that annoys me, I'm unlikely to vote for it.
Check 3: Details.
If the items give an around equal first impression and I don't find anything to favor one item over the other, well then I look at the price, the aura, the construction, the details of formatting and whether the rules would slow down the game massively due to being poorly explained or simply too complex for what the item does. And a host of other details.
Check 4: If I really don't know...
If nothing else in the items decide me I go with the one I, personally, like best. That typically has nothing to do with quality, as those should be fairly equal at this point.
Strangely, I have seen my own item, and I seriously considered not voting for it. I decided not to vote for it unless it is actually better than the other item. Only seen it once so far though.
Well, look at that, isn't that a lengthy process. Sorry to engage in extensive verbosity.
Maria Smolina RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 8 aka Laik |
When voting, I pose three primary questions about every item I see:
1) Are there any NPCs in my game setting who would actually be both able and willing to buy or craft such an item? (here drop any moneysinkers, joke items, most self-harming items and overly specific tools)
2) When this item gets used by a PC or NPC during a game session, is it going to add something cool/uncool to the basic game process? (here drop most bland bonus-bestowers, SAKs, items with powers difficult to track or those using any game options that I consider inherently faulty, for any of my own reasons)
3) When this item gets used during a game session, how much rule hassle it is going to cause? (here drop most ambiguous descriptions and template fails)
frank gori RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka GM_Solspiral |
JJ Jordan |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
1) Was there an attempt at formatting? It's not that I really care about perfect formatting but it tells me the designer cares and tried following directions. These things will matter later on in the competition.
2) Which item is more awesome?
3) If they are equally awesome, then which one is formatted perfectly or is more creatively awesome?
That's about it. Sometimes I don't really care which is better. I usually reward items with a lower word count in that scenario.
Jacob Kellogg RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8 aka Jiggy |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Kiraya TiDrekan |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
1. Read both items, regardless of formatting issues.
2. Switch tabs to the forums while I wait for the timer to run down.
3. Generally vote for the cooler one, though awful formatting will sway my vote fairly frequently.
4. Automatically downvote joke items and blatant movie, tv, or pop culture references.
Coleman Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8 |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I generally read the descriptions of both items first and may make my decision based on those alone. If both are equally good or bad, then I take the format and other technical aspects into consideration. If I still don't have a clear winner, then I look at the pricing and other mechanic details to see if that can break the tie.
So most of the time, I am not even looking at the pricing. I guess I feel that is the easiest thing to get wrong, but also the easiest thing to correct, especially with the help of an editor.
When it comes to the template, it definitely plays a part. But given how odd it is to submit an item by message board, I am more lenient about that than many seem to be. At my second stage of review, I'm more worried with grammar, spelling, and more traditional errors rather than the message board coding. I do realize it's pretty easy to use the template that was provided, but I just feel that it would be an easy correction to make after the fact.
Tripp Elliott RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan |
Ovid's Oversight Star Voter Season 8 |
I am most interested in continuity (function with stated origin/purpose), versatility (how it might be employed by non-ideal wielders), and balance (Over Powered items fail, unless they have serious draw-backs).
Similarly, items that are fish-out-of-genre (like lightsabres, or otherwise technically complex in application without a coherent guiding principle) get the dump. I have seen some really immature/munchkinish items, although one obviously was inspired by a Munchkin(TM) card, but made it more relevant than funny (and I up-voted it).
Logically, whenever you're faced with two real stinkers you should up-vote the one that is worse to guarantee that they both go down (when they are inevitably paired with a mildly ill-designed item).
Personally, I'm much more offended by spelling and grammatical errors than minor formatting issues; but, if required data isn't present (especially if it's essential to the function of the item; e.g., a multi-special-effect item has no use limit, even if it is just to say that it is unlimited-use), that tends to get a down-vote from me.
BTW:
Has anyone seen an entry that violates the 300-word-count limit?
If it was a great item in every other respect would you ignore that aspect and vote for it anyway?
How far would any leniency you may have extend, double? triple? 1000 words?I'm just curious. I haven't seen any over-long entries yet, but tonnes of other formatting violations.
Jacob W. Michaels RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 aka motteditor |
I generally read the descriptions of both items first and may make my decision based on those alone. If both are equally good or bad, then I take the format and other technical aspects into consideration. If I still don't have a clear winner, then I look at the pricing and other mechanic details to see if that can break the tie.
So most of the time, I am not even looking at the pricing. I guess I feel that is the easiest thing to get wrong, but also the easiest thing to correct, especially with the help of an editor.
When it comes to the template, it definitely plays a part. But given how odd it is to submit an item by message board, I am more lenient about that than many seem to be. At my second stage of review, I'm more worried with grammar, spelling, and more traditional errors rather than the message board coding. I do realize it's pretty easy to use the template that was provided, but I just feel that it would be an easy correction to make after the fact.
I judge the same way. (And as an amusing aside, my earliest design work was all done on the boards, first in Superstar 2012 and then in the Blazing 9 practice threads. The first time I went to submit something, I almost included all the BB code. That'd have been embarrassing.[/ooc]
Strange, Zahir. I tend to give technological items a slight boost. I think it speaks to the designer's potential that they're using the new space. I'm actually a bit surprised, since I think I tend to be more conservative about not really wanting sci-fi in my fantasy, but maybe I'm less so than I thought.
Tripp Elliott RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan |
Snorter |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Logically, whenever you're faced with two real stinkers you should up-vote the one that is worse to guarantee that they both go down (when they are inevitably paired with a mildly ill-designed item).
Ooh, tactical voting techniques, already!
This is getting cutthroat.
Like voting in the Italian elections "Vote for the one who's most corrupt, but least likely to be able to cover his tracks, then it'll force a by-election, about the time your favourite candidate gets out of jail!"
Thomas LeBlanc RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Champion Voter Season 6, Champion Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Champion Voter Season 9 |
LazarX |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I am going "rule of cool" first. I am interested in what the idea is and whether it wow's me. Then readability. Formatting is a tie breaker. Price doesn't concern me so much cause that is something that can be learned.
As "rule of cool" is frequently used as a cheap excuse to either break rules, or break balance, it gets little truck with me.
For me, rule of cool is used as a tie-breaker between two otherwise well-built items.
Vrecknidj Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I've never participated before, so, I don't have a past history to rely upon. I am trying to be charitable in my reading, assuming that designer's intent is a little more important than actual wording (in some cases).
I can say that it's frustrating when I get two really good items side by side, and then shortly thereafter get two pretty poor ones. If only either good one had been paired against either poor one, I feel my vote would have counted for more.
Eric Hindley RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32, 2011 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Boxhead |
I look at what the item does at its core. Assuming I can figure it out, I go back and see if the description and peripheral abilities add to that core or detract from it.
For example, I have found myself questioning exotic materials in quite a few weapons and armor (especially adamantine weapons).
Then I look at formatting, name and all that stuff. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt on these things, but there have been a few absolute put-offs especially in the naming department.
If two items are still tied by this point, I typically vote for the more exotic power-anyone can make a generic +X battle sword of also +Y to a skill check, but it takes talent to explore new territory. I also generally vote against items that feel like copies of items from other media (for example- hook shots, light sabres, etc.).
Luthia Dedicated Voter Season 8 |
BTW:
TerminalOrbit wrote:Has anyone seen an entry that violates the 300-word-count limit?
If it was a great item in every other respect would you ignore that aspect and vote for it anyway?
How far would any leniency you may have extend, double? triple? 1000 words?I'm just curious. I haven't seen any over-long entries yet, but tonnes of other formatting violations.
As far as I know the computer automatically removes items that are even one measly word over word count. Ergo, we should never, ever see them. I am a little paranoid about item that forget enormous parts of the template and probably would have exceeded word count, had they contained the expected parts at an average length - and those I have seen a few, which may have been flirting with.
Anyway, I think word count is one area where leniency isn't a concept. It's something like rule 1 of freelancing/RPG Superstar: If you cant even follow a simple instruction like that, then... well, then you probably need to practice following instructions, if you want to be in.
Anthony Adam Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 |
So far, all I have needed to do is look at the two in the current pair and vote for which I think is the most FUN because that is becoming very much the deciding factor.
Well done everyone - this is going to be a very hard year to be a judge - they will have to look at them ALL now :)
Thomas LeBlanc RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Champion Voter Season 6, Champion Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Champion Voter Season 9 |
Jensen Toperzer Star Voter Season 8 aka TealDeer |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Between two items that are equally awesome but correctly formatted: which one is weirder / which one am I more likely to use in a campaign?
Between two equally awesome items: Which one is correctly formatted?
Between two items that are equally awesome but have garbage formatting: which one is weirder / am I more likely to use in a campaign
Between two items I think are both totally lame: Which one is correctly formatted
Between two items that are equally lame and are correctly formatted: Which one offends me less?
Between two items that are equally lame and have terrible formatting: Gnash my teeth, cry, pick the one that has the marginally less terrible formatting, grumble.
Negative Zer0 Star Voter Season 8 |
if your weapon has something along the lines of:
This +1 mace of no other abilities becomes a +3 mace of face melting when a bard with, perform: whimsical fart, wields it"
the other item is going to win almost every time.
This mechanic this useless overpriced item instantly becomes the godly item of @$$ kickery only when X class uses it and for no other reason is being WAY over used.
Jacob Kellogg RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8 aka Jiggy |
Mage Evolving Dedicated Voter Season 8 |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Some times I find myself not voting for an item but rather voting against another.
- I especially don't like items that just grant abilities. No Save dc vs death/suffocation/being swallowed whole/ect.
- Or any item whose abilities are so ill defined that I don't know what it does, how long it lasts, who it affects, how many charges it has.
Mage Evolving Dedicated Voter Season 8 |
if your weapon has something along the lines of:
This +1 mace of no other abilities becomes a +3 mace of face melting when a bard with, perform: whimsical fart, wields it"
the other item is going to win almost every time.This mechanic this useless overpriced item instantly becomes the godly item of @$$ kickery only when X class uses it and for no other reason is being WAY over used.
this.
Woody Elliott Marathon Voter Season 8 |
I have a real hard time not automatically disqualifying an item where the author did not even try to format it correctly. If they made a good effort but made a mistake, I tend to let it slide. Not even taking the time and effort to try tells me that the author doesn't care enough about this dream job interview (because that is what this is) or they simply need more time to develop their skills. Either way, I don't feel that either is superstar material.
My question to the community, is this too harsh a stance?
Mage Evolving Dedicated Voter Season 8 |
I have a real hard time not automatically disqualifying an item where the author did not even try to format it correctly. If they made a good effort but made a mistake, I tend to let it slide. Not even taking the time and effort to try tells me that the author doesn't care enough about this dream job interview (because that is what this is) or they simply need more time to develop their skills. Either way, I don't feel that either is superstar material.
My question to the community, is this too harsh a stance?
I don't think there is any wrong way to vote. IF I am looking at two equally strong entries I will vote for the one with the better formatting.
FireHawk Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 8 |
I have a real hard time not automatically disqualifying an item where the author did not even try to format it correctly. If they made a good effort but made a mistake, I tend to let it slide. Not even taking the time and effort to try tells me that the author doesn't care enough about this dream job interview (because that is what this is) or they simply need more time to develop their skills. Either way, I don't feel that either is superstar material.
My question to the community, is this too harsh a stance?
Generally the items lacking formatting arent as creative as those with. But with that said I've voted for the more creative item even though it lacked [b] and [i] formatting. Formatting can be corrected, creativity isnt so easy to teach.
Now not following the template is a more egregious action, and that usually gets the opposing item up voted
Aaron Miller 335 Dedicated Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 |
Aaron Miller 335 Dedicated Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 |
pH unbalanced Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 |
pH unbalanced Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 |
Negative Zer0 Star Voter Season 8 |
Negative Zer0 wrote:this.if your weapon has something along the lines of:
This +1 mace of no other abilities becomes a +3 mace of face melting when a bard with, perform: whimsical fart, wields it"
the other item is going to win almost every time.This mechanic of: this useless overpriced item instantly becomes the godly item of @$$ kickery only when X class uses it and for no other reason, is being WAY over used.
good to see I'm not the only one that thinks this
Lightminder Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8 |
Curaigh Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 |
ease of read > reading I trip in
cool visuals > poor visuals
balance > broken
simplicity > complexity
awesome/unexpected abilities > boring/expected abilities
That is generally the order I am reading them in. Yes each of these can be broken into various subcategories (and each of them have varying degrees of >/<). I do not consciously think about those nuances though, they are just kind of in my head initially. I can look closer after the first run through, but it rarely changes that first impression.
A wrymling fails one of the first two and a juvenile might trip multiple trumps to a lesser degree. If both items pass those hurdles I figure they are in the mature adult to old category. I think superstar means having the ancient or wyrm category.
Then I compare the two: wyrm > wyrmling
Two wyrmlings go back to the original scale, but I am a lot more deliberate about it. Two wrymlings that each fail to rise above the other dice off.
After nearly a decade of this I still come across something that just makes me smile. These Great Wyrms come once or twice a season. :)
Kiel Howell RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka theheadkase |
Feros Champion Voter Season 6, Champion Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Champion Voter Season 9 |
1) Is there a cool image or at least a consistent-and-not-silly image? Pun names and the like break this criteria.
2) How easy is it to read and understand?
3) How complicated would this be to run in session?
4) How well did they get the pricing, auras, casting, requirements, etc.?
5) How close did they get to proper format?
6) Occam's Razor: All else being equal, the simplest is best.
Monica Marlowe RPG Superstar 2015 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka mamaursula |
I'm voting like I have the last two years -
Does your item follow submission guidelines and format? check in favor
Can I read through your item without glazing over? check in favor
Is your item clearly identified fast and actively? check in favor
Did you make the mistake of putting fiction/back story in your item? strike against
If you passed all the above tests, is your item actually awesome?
Alexander Bennett RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 8 aka artofcheatery |
Papasteve08 Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 |
I've not started voting yet, but I've promised myself I won't be auto-rejecting any item simply for being one of those that "could have been a wondrous item, in another form.".
Yes, it's true that some of these effects could have been made in a non-ring/weapon/armor/staff/rod form, but so what?
A ring that offers an abjuration effect could have been a cloak, but that doesn't invalidate its existence in ring form as well.*
A weapon that seeks out hidden enemies could have been a pair of goggles, but so what?*
If anything, the fault lies with the rules for Wondrous Items being far too lax. If people weren't being encouraged to make Anyshaped-Do-Anything Whackadoodles for the last 14 years, there wouldn't be as much crossover.*not actual submitted items, as far as I know.
DING DING DING DING YOU WIN THE BOARDS FOR THE DAY!!!!
Sorry... couldn't help myself. Well said. :)
Papasteve08 Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 |
This +1 mace of no other abilities becomes a +3 mace of face melting when a bard with, perform: whimsical fart, wields it"
I am either very tired, or very childish. Possibly both. I was nodding off, this made me laugh out loud. A few more votes before this old fart goes to bed. Thanks for the second wind.