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Well, you can have lots of rules if you want them. Mindjammer, which is a sci-fi setting that uses FATE Core, is about 500 pages long. The FATE Toolkit gives a few examples, for instance of magic systems. There are also lots of FATE supplements around that you can steal from – Achtung! Cthulhu for a Call of Cthulhu game, FATE Freeport Companion for a D&D style game, etc.
However, if you want to use the Core book by itself, you have to come up with all the extras yourself.
In theory, the players should take some of the load off the GM. For instance, it’s not a case of looking through (say) all the crossbow stunts and picking your favourites. Instead, you are supposed to come up with some cool stuff you want your character to be able to do, and collectively invent some stunts to reflect this.
I don't mind rules lite games for conventions and stuff I think I'll only play a time or two, but they stink for ongoing campaigns.
Eventually, these systems favor the player who is the loudest, whiniest, or gripes the most at the table about what he wants his character to be able to do.
Ugh.
jh
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I don't mind rules lite games for conventions and stuff I think I'll only play a time or two, but they stink for ongoing campaigns.
I really don't think FATE is a rules-light game. Rather, it is a game where most of the rules are missing.
My favourite quote about the original Dungeons and Dragons game (from the early 1970s) is that it has all the rules you could ever need, provided you were prepared to make them up yourself ...
Unlike OD&D, there are plenty of published FATE settings out there where other people have done the work for you. If the setting you want isn't one of them - and chances are it won't be, since most of the popular ideas are already licensed to some other role-playing system - then you'll have to do it yourselves (as a group, since it isn't just the GM's responsibility).
For example, weapons in FATE do from +0 to +5 extra damage. How much damage does a longsword do? As much as you want it to do.
If you are playing some sort of martial arts game, it might be that character abilities are all important and the exact weapon used is a minor bit of flavour text, so a longsword is +0. If you are playing a Warhammer 40,000 game, then all archaic melee weapons might be +1 (since there isn't a meaningful difference between a dagger and a longsword when compared to, say, a poweraxe). If you are playing a medieval fantasy game, perhaps light weapons are +1 and two-handed weapons are +3, so a longsword would be in the middle at +2. If you are playing some sort of post-apocalyptic, resource poor game where most weapons are made of wood, bone or stone, then an actual steel sword might be a legendary weapon and do +5.
But in any of those games you could give a longsword special abilities - some sort of parry ability, some sort of disarm ability, or anything else you think longswords should do. If longswords are a sign of nobility and knighthood, then it can give you a bonus to Rapport checks.
And in theory, absolutely anything can be given stats - items, organisations, philosophies, nations, battleships, eldritch horrors beyond the ken of humankind. If your game of FATE is rules-light, it is because you want it that way.
Eventually, these systems favor the player who is the loudest, whiniest, or gripes the most at the table about what he wants his character to be able to do.
FATE is supposed to work by table consensus, so even if the GM gives in for the sake of a quiet life, hopefully the other players won't.
I've read Fate Core but I haven't played it yet. I'm not sure what to think. A part of me thinks that I'll really like it but another part thinks that it might be abit loose and unstructured for me to make sense off in game.
It, however, doesn't have enough rules for my tastes.
Could you elaborate on this? Is it lacking rules to handle specific situations or something else?
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Kudos for trying something new.
For me it's the dice mechanics.
Well, not so much the mechanics, but I only ever roll a -1 or -2. So I've never played a character who felt like they were good at anything.
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I've read Fate Core but I haven't played it yet. I'm not sure what to think. A part of me thinks that I'll really like it but another part thinks that it might be abit loose and unstructured for me to make sense off in game.
It, however, doesn't have enough rules for my tastes.Could you elaborate on this? Is it lacking rules to handle specific situations or something else?
Oh does it. It doesn't really have any rules for that kind of thing. You think them up on the fly.
I hate not having a codified set of rules for EVERYTHING. That is why I love Pathfinder.
Our experiences couldn't really be more different. Fate has basically become my system of choice.
If there isn't a good reason I want to use a specific system for a game concept, such a strong system/theme ties, or a mechanical conceit I really want to explore, then I use fate to do it. It's flexibility, player engagement with the environment and speed make it a no brainer.
In fact, other than trying out a few indie games, their are only a handful of games currently that can drag me away from it as a GM.
- Warhammer fantasy role-play (nostalgia)
- Wraith: The oblivian (cause it is a work of art)
- Call of Cthulhu (Nostalgia, system familiarity, massive amounts of content, player base, and being a better fit for setting)
- Trail of Cthulhu (because it is the best fit for Mythos gaming in my opinion)
If you want to give it another try I would play some Dungeon World first. It really seems like Pathfinder meets FATE. Plus there are games that show up here from time to time.
I've read Fate Core but I haven't played it yet. I'm not sure what to think. A part of me thinks that I'll really like it but another part thinks that it might be abit loose and unstructured for me to make sense off in game.
It, however, doesn't have enough rules for my tastes.Could you elaborate on this? Is it lacking rules to handle specific situations or something else?Oh does it. It doesn't really have any rules for that kind of thing. You think them up on the fly.
I hate not having a codified set of rules for EVERYTHING. That is why I love Pathfinder.
Nothing has rules for EVERYTHING.
We know Pathfinder doesn't, because they keep adding new rules. We got a bunch of stuff just for combat, like maneuvers, in the APG and UC, which were released well after the core book. I'm sure we'll see continued additions and enhancements we didn't realize we were missing for a while to come.
As a DM, there is still plenty that I ad lib on the fly because the rules don't cover it, like my gunslinger wanting to shoot rocks on a cliff to start a landslide (it happened 2 or 3 sessions ago).
One thing is that Fate Core is the base game of a generic system. So it is "missing" things, this is true. At the same time, it is a highly versatile system, but that versatility comes with mastery as a GM and player. System master with Fate means something very different than it does with PF.
Now, I could be totally wrong, but I think you have the same problem with Fate that I do (not the dice thing mentioned above). It took me a while to realize it, but it's a game design thing. I'll show it with an example.
Two characters.
1) Human warrior, wears heavy armor, wields a sword
2) An intelligent bear, has a thick hide, uses his claws.
In Pathfinder, these characters will have some similar statistics, but they will operate slightly differently, get their bonuses from different places and probably use some different feats.
In Fate, they'll use the same (or similar) skills, have identical statistics. They will have different aspects, but those aspects will all mechanically function identically.
You and I both intellectually realize that these are very different characters, even if variations on a theme. We will roleplay them different from each other, but when we look at the Fate versions on paper, we just don't feel that difference. They feel like different characters to us and we want them to use different facets of the mechanics to do their normal things.
The benefit of this style of game design is that you don't need to come up with rules for every possibility, because they're already covered by the more generic concepts. In Pathfinder, we'd need the rules for the bear warrior, figure out if they're balanced, fit our campaign power level, etc. In Fate, that work is already done, because we're not using new rules. It gives GMs and players the freedom to create what they see fit.
Though, a lot of settings built on Fate do give you specific mechanics for specific concepts.
Anyways, hope that helps. Not saying you NEED to like Fate. It is of course a subjective choice. I personally am not a huge fan of it. I appreciate it's mechanics and how they work and have found understanding them has improved my understanding of game design in general (there are some fairly smart people behind Fate IMO).