Copyright and IP issues

[Jon Chambers]

I am developing a new RPG system, but given that Pathfinder is my favourite so far, I fear I may inadvertently use IP or something copyrighted, leaving myself open for litigation.

I don't actually intend to compete with Pathfinder. On the contrary, I seek to promote Pathfinder. I want to be able to state that I am a fan of Pathfinder, built a game that took inspiration from Pathfinder and even use Pathfinder as a point of reference when describing what makes my game so new and different.

My game, is essentially Pathfinder, without any complex character creation or combat. It's almost the opposite of the Beginner Box. All the huge open world player driven narrative that the beginner box lacks, my game has. All the combat, game play, minis and maps that the Beginner Box has, my game lacks.

This means my game will get potential Pathfinder players into the hobby by teaching them how to play a character and think outside the box, rather than teaching them about turn based combat, status effects, hit points and tactical positioning.

This allows people to experience a deeper, more enjoyable higher level of play that most Pathfinder players don't experience until their 4th or 5th session if they're lucky. I even want to include something to the effect of "If you enjoyed this game, but wished that combat was more detailed and provided you with more interesting and tactical choices than a single skill check, buy a copy of Pathfinder." Then possibly a guide to help them choose if the Beginner Box or the Core Rulesbook is more appropriate for them.

So, I'd like to hear the usual rules for Copyright and Intellectual Property, and given the potential free marketing opportunity I'm presenting you with, I'd like to get in touch with someone who has the authority to relax the usual rules and grant special permission to use certain things provided I make it clear that I am merely a fan of Paizo, and that Paizo is in no other way connected with my product.

[Steve Geddes]

I think it's unlikely you'd be granted a specific license until you've got some runs on the board. Paizo have previously indicated that prior work in the field is a key component in evaluating potential business partners or licensees. However, as a place to start, i'd try emailing [e-mail] if you want to negotiate some kind of partnership leveraging the pathfinder brand.

FWIW, The Pathfinder Compatibility License is the "standard" way to produce third party products for use with pathfinder (usually alongside the Open Game License provided by Wizards of the Coast).

The community use policy is more generous with IP but is not available for commercial users, only for true fan products where there is no charge for the material.

[Jon Chambers]

Perhaps asking for the rules to be relaxed was a bit ambitious and, more so, unnecessary. Though where could I find a list of things I'm not allowed to do?

Can I use the word Pathfinder if I don't say anything misleading or damaging? (Eg. Can I say, "My system is different from Pathfinder in the following ways:"?)

Is there any rules or mechanics that, if I have, would have me liable for litigation?

Are there any terms or things that they have as IP? (eg. Dungeons and Dragons has "Dungeon Master" and "Beholder")

Can I suggest Paizo products that would work well with people using my product?

Can I include an honest personal review of Paizo products, and recommendations on what to buy and what to avoid?

Is there anything else I'm not allowed to do that I've forgotten to ask about?

I'm not planning on doing all the things I'm suggesting, but it's good to know the rules just in case I decide to later.

Compatibility license is very much unnecessary. Although I could argue that it's compatible with the Game Mastery Guide, it's no more compatible than GURPS is, for example. That book works with anything.

[Terek]

In each book, Paizo publishes the Open Gaming License, usually in the back of their books. Also, they publish what is their Product Identity and what is open content, usually in the front of their books.

Study the OGL and look at multiple books by Paizo... After all they are using material from the third edition of D&D themselves and have to follow the rules of the Open Gaming License. If you use anything that is open I think you need to cite the reference in your book's OGL declaration. Note: Almost no pictures, names, dieties, stories, locations, trade dress, are open unless something previously declared those open.

Also, at PaizoCon I believe Paizo offers classes for people who want to make third party products. That might help you understand what is allowed.

Look at other third party books and see how they use the OGL for ideas.

If you want to be really safe... Hire a lawyer and get his help with understanding what to you can and can't do with the Open Gaming License. I am not a lawyer and never want to develop my own material to sell so my advice should be considered worth what you paid for it.

[Jon Chambers]

Thank you Terek. I think your wise words are enough. If my game becomes large enough to be worthy of litigation, that would be quite the compliment.

To play things SUPER safe, the game uses d6, not d20. It's post nuclear apocalypse, not high magic.

Also, until I have expressed permission, I will not attempt to promote Paizo in any way. (It's a shame, I'd like to.)

[Jon Chambers]

Just saw the section you were referring to. Yes, that's specific enough for me. Thank you very much.

[Sara Marie]

We usually suggest consulting with a lawyer if there are parts of the Pathfinder Compatibility License that you do not understand or have questions about how it might affect or interact with a product you are interested in creating, because the Pathfinder Compatibility License is a legal document and you are the one ultimately responsible for ensuring that your product abides by it.

[Dale McCoy Jr]

Sara Marie wrote:

We usually suggest consulting with a lawyer if there are parts of the Pathfinder Compatibility License that you do not understand or have questions about how it might affect or interact with a product you are interested in creating, because the Pathfinder Compatibility License is a legal document and you are the one ultimately responsible for ensuring that your product abides by it.

This.

A hundred times this.

A hundred-thousand times this.

If you are publishing, you are starting a business and you are responsible for knowing your rights and responsibilities. That means consulting a lawyer. So it is probably best to get that right from the start. Talk to a lawyer before doing anything you cannot take back.

[Liz Courts]

Jon, other folks have covered things fairly well, but I do have some additional links in my profile regarding third-party publishing. It's been stated previously, but bears repeating again: both the Open Gaming License and the Pathfinder Compatibility License are legal documents. If you don't understand them, do not publish anything until you do.

[Little Red Goblin Games]

Dale McCoy Jr wrote:

Sara Marie wrote:

We usually suggest consulting with a lawyer if there are parts of the Pathfinder Compatibility License that you do not understand or have questions about how it might affect or interact with a product you are interested in creating, because the Pathfinder Compatibility License is a legal document and you are the one ultimately responsible for ensuring that your product abides by it.

This.

A hundred times this.

A hundred-thousand times this.

If you are publishing, you are starting a business and you are responsible for knowing your rights and responsibilities. That means consulting a lawyer. So it is probably best to get that right from the start. Talk to a lawyer before doing anything you cannot take back.

I third this. (Well... Dale said it a hundred thousand times so I guess I'm one-hundred-thousand-and-third-ing this)

Honestly, a lot of your problems (other than the stuff about talking to a lawyer) could be avoided by not putting it in the actual published/sold text. Write a blog post about what things to buy. Promote them there or on your social media feed. I've found that when it comes to legal issues, you need to steer as far clear of them as possible.

Again, consult a lawyer (I'm just a goblin).

[GarnathFrostmantle]

*This isn't meant as harsh as it sounds. Just echoing above.

IF publishing as a Publisher:

Ala board magic:

Jon Chambers wrote:

Can I use the word Pathfinder if I don't say anything misleading or damaging? (Eg. Can I say, "My system is different from Pathfinder in the following ways:"?)

Then your game isn't Pathfinder compatible which means you probably shouldn't compare to Pathfinder. And if you need to address how the game is different, then don't compare it to pathfinder rule system at all.

Jon Chambers wrote:

Is there any rules or mechanics that, if I have, would have me liable for litigation?

You really need to learn OGL/pathfinder compatibility before you attempt to publish anything. IE Steve already gave you the link to the PF license.

Jon Chambers wrote:

Are there any terms or things that they have as IP? (eg. Dungeons and Dragons has "Dungeon Master" and "Beholder")

As stated above look at what is Open Content and Product ID in books. Also, assume anything in the world of Golarion is IP.

Jon Chambers wrote:

Can I suggest Paizo products that would work well with people using my product?

It says in the PF Comp licensee. It's your text book.

Jon Chambers wrote:

Can I include an honest personal review of Paizo products, and recommendations on what to buy and what to avoid?

There are review sections for each product on this site. Why put it in a book. *again gander at the PF Comp License. It has rules, as does registering for the PF Comp License application.

Jon Chambers wrote:

Is there anything else I'm not allowed to do that I've forgotten to ask about?

Don't know your product, can't help you. Check your text book.

Jon Chambers wrote:

I'm not planning on doing all the things I'm suggesting, but it's good to know the rules just in case I decide to later.

Text book :-) and a lawyer.

Jon Chambers wrote:

Compatibility license is very much unnecessary. Although I could argue that it's compatible with the Game Mastery Guide, it's no more compatible than GURPS is, for example. That book works with anything.

Then WHY even mention anything regards to Pathfinder.

Jon Chambers wrote:

To play things SUPER safe, the game uses d6, not d20. It's post nuclear apocalypse, not high magic.

Then WHY even mention anything regards to Pathfinder. Completely different system it seems. Are you going the arcane engine route like 13 age? They have their own OGL as well.

D6 is actually and open system if you look up the old West End Games stuff.

I 4th the lawyer with questions. and what LRG states on blogs

ACK! Everyone beat me to it. Posting anyway because I spent all this time responding.

[GreyWolfLord]

I believe however, OGL with the PRD is different then Pathfinder compatibility.

There's a link around here that explains it all, I'm just too lazy to find it right now...sorry.

But there is a portion in the site which explains the differences, what you can and cannot do, and how each can correlate into what you want.

[Jon Chambers]

Yes, everything noted. I am certain I'm in the clear here. Pathfinder is just my favourite game, and I was worried there might be something anal like "You can't use the word 'charisma' when describing an attribute on a character sheet! That's IP!" or something to that effect.

The text is not applicable to me. This game is not even close to being close to being compatible. The Game Mastery Guide is still a good read that I'd recommend people buy no matter what system you're using. (Or at least the first 50 pages have been. Not sure how s&@$ the rest will be yet.) Still, if recommending people buy that book is bad, I won't recommend it.

But it seems I am very much in the clear here.

[Liz Courts]

If you're not trying to be compatible with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, you do not need to use the Pathfinder Compatibility License. You'll want to use the Open Gaming License and System Reference Document instead, which is here.
I would still very very much recommend talking to an intellectual property lawyer, especially if you're planning on discussing trademarked and copyrighted terms in your product.