Classes and Categories


Online Campaigns General Discussion

Grand Lodge

In the recruitment threads we often list the submissions and classify them as Arcane, Divine, Martial, and Skilled. I put together one of these lists and I found those four categories insufficient. The Bard, for instance could fit into either the Arcane or Skilled categories. Depending on archetype, they could also possibly fit into the Martial category.
That is why I decided to go include three other categories. I call them Hybrids; Arcane/Martial, Arcane/Skilled, and Divine/Hybrid. I thought about using Divine/Martial and Divine/Skilled, but the divine classes already tend to be martially inclined.
Here's how I see the classes at level 1 being categorized without consideration for archetype or build.

Arcane Sorcerer, Wizard, Witch, Arcanist
Arcane/Martial Magus, Summoner, Bloodrager
Arcane/Skilled Bard, Alchemist, Skald
Divine Cleric, Druid, Oracle, Shaman
Divine/Hybrid Inquisitor, Hunter, Warpriest
Martial Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin, Gunslinger, Cavalier, Brawler, Swashbuckler
Skilled Rogue, Investigator
Martial/Skilled Monk, Ranger, Slayer


The problem with any list attempting to divide classes into categories is that most classes can be build in several different ways emphasizing the various aspects of the class. Even fighters are very different depending on what style of combat they focus on.

Same with the categories. A buff focused arcane is very different than a blast focused one.

Thus it is my opinion that it doesn't really matter how many categories are used you still won't be able to properly show the variety. It is better to simply increase the description of the character. So rather than saying, Kal'Tos dwarf cleric, do something like Kal'Tos dwarf cleric of Abadar, focused on mobility and melee.


The problem with even that level of description, is that characters change. I don't think I've actually had a toon that developed in obediance to any plan I might have had for them. So describing toons so GMs can jigsaw us together is somewhat unproductive, since toons and plans change. Even parties change, with people dropping and replacements coming on.

If I put myself in the place of the GM, I think I'd be trying to check off, or double- or triple-check off, broad functions, maybe...?

Can Heal, Can Hurt, Can Take It, Can Steal, Can Wheel&Deal?

Father, Fist, Fort, Fingers, Face, ...Fireball?

Whatever we might agree on, somebody will show up who doesn't fit. Call them 'Fancy', maybe. :)

I know my Monk, who in a previous aborted playthrough dipped Magus, doesn't think of himself as a 'Martial', but he's not, at level one, anything like 'Skilled', and even after dipping, isn't the party's 'Arcane'.

The real issue in the list you were making was the thirty-five applicants, with people like my monk and the face-arcane summoner and her scout-ghost eidolon. That's Fancy. :)

Am I a Lion? I don't think of myself as a Lion...

Grand Lodge

I agree that any list of categories that is all inclusive would be more cumbersome than its worth. The four category list, especially with the addition of the base classes, however, doesn't quite do it for me either. I don't intend the list to be complete, only 'better'.
I mentioned that the list is only meant to try to categorize characters at first level. I made suggestions for classes without considering build or archetype. I agree that Fancy classes can very easily 'break' the list, but I hope that it is still useful to those recruiting for games.
And I've seen more than thirty-five submissions for a game before. Not enough GMs. But that's a different problem.


I think for level 1 characters though your list is more than good enough.

Adding a blurb on what the player thinks the character's role should be would be good. But the GM would need to specify that the player be clear on that in their submission post so a list maker could easily pick it up and plop it in. Too much work to maintain otherwise.


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i would add a Ranged category since most gunslingers are not front line combatants, as are some rangers, a few inquisitors, hunters, and zen archer monks.

Grand Lodge

I was trying not to get into builds. I think that's a slippery slope. All of the categories could be broken down into smaller set. If the martial category is split into ranged and melee, why not split arcane into Controller, Blaster, and Buffer/Debuffer.
My suggestions are an attempt to better allow for the 2/3rds casters like the Magus and the Hunter. The hunter and his companion do martial well, but denoting them as such minimizes their spell capabilities.


agreed. i would keep it simple and just do roles and not classes, and just focus on the primary role. an archer ranger is ranged but also melee light or even skilled light. just label him/her as ranged though.

melee
ranged
buff
debuff
face
skilled

just a suggestion


When I'm putting together a party, I generally look for Melee, Ranged, Healing, Skills, Arcane as the roles I'm looking to fill. Ranged may be an evoker rather than an archer, but it's definitely a separate niche from melee fighter/barbarian/paladin.


When I put together a party, I try and go with:

Warrior (melee)
Divine (9th level spells)
Arcane (9th level spells)
Skill Monkey (ranged)
Other

The Other covers a multitude of possibilities. I the skill monkey isn't a ranged character, then Other will fill that slot. If Divine is not melee, then Other will tend to be a more melee martial character.

For Other, I like the new ACG classes a lot, like warpriest or hunter. Also Magus would be a possibility.

-- david


IMO you are going in the wrong direction and your list should be cut with Occam's razor. After we do it, all that's left are two categories - "can deal damage and take hits in melee (martials, CoDzillas) or reliably put meatbags on the battlefield (summoner, occultist arcanist)" and "can't survive in melee". Unless at least half of party are in the first category, barring edge cases like 'single martial is Iron Tortoise Warder with personal Vitalist' the party is most likely dead.

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