Dreamscarred Press Announces - Lords of the Night Playtest


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Looking over the test document, that is a horribly weak template in comparison to normal vampires. Especially given the comparative lack of powers other than the change to undead type and one power. In addition the vampire is only exhausted in sunlight, not turned to ash or exploding into ignition like a roadway flare. I suggest the following:

Create the template as a racial paragon class ala Rite Publishing's successful line, so you can get various vampiric powers given to your PC along with feats that defend against normal vampiric banes, such as sunlight, running water, holy symbols, etc. Or if you are set on the template, make it the normal +2 that the current one gets, create separate archetypes for each class that becomes a vampire, and then create feats to add in other powers. Ignore the level buyoff and just add it in. An all PC group is going to have the same starting powers as vamps, but the use of feats and archetypes/prestige classes/magic items will provide the difference for vampires that aren't affected by sunlight, have hardened natural armor so their skin is smooth as stone, separate their head from their body and have it go out and feed, etc.

For feeding I would go with a similar system to Vampire the Masquerade (or the Requiem for nauseous 2.0 refit) that has a specific amount of blood the vampire can hold, probably based on Charisma since that is their force of personality. Each Con point drained goes into this pool, and is used to satisfy the vampire's hunger or heal the vampire of damage. Also, the more blood drained the closer to life a vampire gets. Vamps that reach their blood pool appear human and radiate heat, allowing them to mingle amongst the normal population without fear. As a vampire's sanguine threshold drops due to hunger or damage, the vampire becomes more and more frenzied in their efforts to collect blood.


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Well, for one thing, the base vampire is very unsuitable for PCs and a huge hassle for DMs running games with them (at-will Dominate Person? Free minions? Large piles of stats? Energy Drain slams? All of these are something you don't want to hand to a player because it's a huge headache).

The goal of the book, as I see it, is to make playing a vampire viable for both the player and the DM, by cutting out most of the problematic abilities and giving the player the ones that matter to make the fluff work. This is also why vampires don't insta-die in the sun; having a PC who cannot go outside in daylight disrupts the game. Having them Exhausted means that they aren't going to be super useful in combat, but will not cause the campaign to grind to a halt whenever it's not night time.

The the topic of separate archetypes, you do realize just how much work work that would be, right? It's not a feasible idea, and in the end, results in vampires who are unable to use Pathfinder's main character customization method. As I see it, given the goal of making a method of running vampirism in games without disrupting too much, this sort of idea runs counter it it. Disrupting character-building is still disruptive, and the idea of having separate vampiric archetypes for each class cuts out a massive amount of possible character concepts.


Though a Prestige class for Vampires with the same ability as the Evangelist from Inner Sea Gods might make a cool addition to the book.

alligned Class wrote:
Evangelists come from many different backgrounds, and they show an unusual range of diversity. At 2nd level, the evangelist must choose a class she belonged to before adding the prestige class to be her aligned class. She gains all the class features for this class, essentially adding every evangelist level beyond 1st to her aligned class to determine what class features she gains. She still retains the Hit Dice, base attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, and skill ranks of the prestige class, but gains all other class features of her aligned class as well as those of the evangelist prestige class.

I don't know about the rest, but make it require Vampirism, give this to them on the 2nd or 3rd PRC level, and you got a completely optional Vampire PrC that doesn't elminate class choice and wont make you feel bad if you go above 15th level.


Wait.

Vampires are Undead. Undead creatures are instantly killed at 0 hp.

Does this mean if you're a vampire player and you hit 0 hp you die right there on the spot?


Axial wrote:

Wait.

Vampires are Undead. Undead creatures are instantly killed at 0 hp.

Does this mean if you're a vampire player and you hit 0 hp you die right there on the spot?

Correct!


I problem I see, right off the bat, is the amount of feeding that needs to occur.

It says the vampire needs to feed 15 hp or suffer the negative effects of failure to feed enough.

But under simplified feeding to feed that amount they need to hit a DC of 65 ( 15 + Alert Level + mod ). The mod is 1 hp per 5 dc over the needed 15 ( assuming Alert 0 ) + 10 hps worth. So that extra 10hps worth is 10 x 5 = 50, thus the 65. If I am reading that correctly.

DC 65 don't seem too simple to me =P


Under the Alert levels and modifiers, I also don't see how any vampire would operate long term without Alert rising thru the roof.

You would have to maintain a 100% secrecy level, to have any chance to slake your thirst.


Crap...playing as a vampire might almost be a handicap, if they can get killed really fast. At least a mortal has the opportunity to stabilize! 0__o

EDIT: Not that I'm complaining. If the PF core rules say that Undead creatures are vaporized at 0 hp, well...that's the way the cookie crumbles. Or, should I say vampire? Try not to get hit with Disruption weapons, kiddos!


Regular vampires turn into puff of smoke and escape to their coffins when reduced to 0 hp though.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I really like stormcorw's idea of using racial paragon levels to offset the abilities of a vampire.


Just reading through the nightguard archetype (pretty darn awesome btw!) and would like to know if there's going to be an Extra Nemesis feat or some such thing?

Cheers
Volf


Guess who recently acquired phone posting! There are not currently plans for such a feat, no. I worry that it wouldn't be quite the same as getting an extra mercy because of differences in scaling and execution.


Wee proposed feat

Psychomachy [Psionic]
You are adept at assaulting the minds of your victims.
Prerequisites: One or more metapsionic feats
Benefit: If a power you manifest deals damage to a mental ability score (such as ego whip's damage to Charisma), you may expend your psionic focus as part of manifesting that power. If you do, it instead deals damage to the mental ability score of your choice.


Prince of Knives wrote:

Wee proposed feat

Psychomachy [Psionic]
You are adept at assaulting the minds of your victims.
Prerequisites: One or more metapsionic feats
Benefit: If a power you manifest deals damage to a mental ability score (such as ego whip's damage to Charisma), you may expend your psionic focus as part of manifesting that power. If you do, it instead deals damage to the mental ability score of your choice.

Honestly may be too powerful. Ego whip tends to scare some GMs as CHA tends to not be a very high stat in most NPCs. Being able to intentionally target mental stats... You are basically allowing the ability to "cherry pick" your damage type.

Not to mention the bookkeeping nightmare this could open up. Having to constantly adjust mental stats means re-figuring saves, spells available to cast, power point pools, etc. The first time it happens in a group, the GM might just ban it for the effort it saves them.

That being said, as a player, I like the idea ;)


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Alriiiight. So, mine co-author is currently working on spells and items (weee) while I start in on the prestige classes! Fairly soon I hope to have all three (possibly four!) kicked out into the wild for playtesting, but since the first and probably most iconic one is done, it's getting pushed out first.

So I present to you: Greater Vampire. Greater Vampire is meant to be used with the Lords of the Night Vampire template and improves upon your powers of undeath.

You'll note that the class is five levels. I felt that "vampire, but with even more vampirism" was not a concept that could be sustained across ten whole levels. I'm hearing ideas to the contrary, though, and I know the bossman would like to push for level expansion, but without a compelling reason to do so it's going to stay small and punchy. Your feedback, as always, is appreciated!

Have at it.


Base document has been updated with Psychomachy (now a metapsionic feat). Lethe Adept has been added to the PrC document. Should I fold the PrCs back into the main playtest doc?


Any relation to the old D20 Lords of the Night: X books by Bottled Imp Games? ( Vampires, Liches, Zombies iirc)

Shadow Lodge

How about making Greater Vampire a scaling feat. Keep the pre-reqs and maybe split it up over 8 lvs.


Thanael wrote:
Any relation to the old D20 Lords of the Night: X books by Bottled Imp Games? ( Vampires, Liches, Zombies iirc)

Not intentionally! This is the first I'd heard of them. Shame, they sound like they coulda spiced my games up back in the day.

Quote:
How about making Greater Vampire a scaling feat. Keep the pre-reqs and maybe split it up over 8 lvs.

's an interesting suggestion, though it gives you those three levels you missed out on back. Do you feel as though the benefits aren't currently worth the three missed progression levels you pay?


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I'm cross-posting this with the other thread(s) involved and also folding it into the main Lords of the Night document, but I am excited and pleased to announce that Unquiet Grave, an undeath-themed martial discipline, is ready for playtesting. This discipline and an associated Tradition will be featured in Lords of the Night. Have at it!

Shadow Lodge

Prince of Knives wrote:
Thanael wrote:
Any relation to the old D20 Lords of the Night: X books by Bottled Imp Games? ( Vampires, Liches, Zombies iirc)

Not intentionally! This is the first I'd heard of them. Shame, they sound like they coulda spiced my games up back in the day.

Quote:
How about making Greater Vampire a scaling feat. Keep the pre-reqs and maybe split it up over 8 lvs.
's an interesting suggestion, though it gives you those three levels you missed out on back. Do you feel as though the benefits aren't currently worth the three missed progression levels you pay?

To me besides the free dex boost and the capstones its kind of meh. Losing 3 lvs of class progression depending on the class could be worth it or a complete bust. Also I like scaling feats.


MASSIVE grammar and wording update done to Unquiet Grave, with a serious shoutout to Forrestfire for his hard work in catching out my flaws. Remember kids: don't write at 3 AM :p


The Scales of Mourning have been added to the end of the Unquiet Grave doc, and are now being folded into the main doc.


Triple post (wow quiet thread): the Sussurratore prestige class has been added to the bottom of the PrC document and folded into the main doc.


Magic is in the air!
May I present: The Spells for the open beta!

They will be folded into the main doc shortly. Your feedback is always appreciated. This was a fun thing to write, as a colony of bats chose this week to set up shop in the tree opposite my office window. Ominous!


And the final prestige class - Black Templar - has been added to the PrC doc as well as the main document! All credit goes to Ssalarn for it, and it's great to have an Akashic tie-in.


Prince of Knives wrote:


With that in mind, my initial thought was this: vampires gain XP 1 track slower than everyone else. If the campaign uses the Fast XP track, they gain at Normal. If the campaign uses Normal, they gain at Slow. If it's already Slow, they eat a level off the top and are always a level behind the party.

Wow. That is an excellent idea.


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I've been working on the items.

Items:

Watchman’s Water
Price 10gp; Weight -
Watchman’s water can help find old bloodstains. A single dose is enough to spray a 5 ft. square; one bottle typically contains 10 doses. Any part of the surface that has been in contact with blood within the past year glows faintly purple. The alchemical ingredients are very sensitive, and no amount of washing is sufficient to hide any traces. This grants a +4 alchemical bonus on checks to spot such stains, such as a Perception check when looking for clues or a Survival check when following a wounded creature.

Protective Parasol
Aura faint evocation; CL 3rd
Price 4,360 gp; Slot none; Weight 2 lbs.
This parasol is made of shiny black leather secured with a silver latch, with a handle ending in a small clasp. The clasp is generally attached to one’s shoulder and allowed to hang freely.
If the bearer is exposed to sunlight they may take an immediate action unlatch the parasol, causing it to instantly open and shade the bearer, protecting them from the effects of sunlight (such as a vampire’s weakness to sunlight) for 1 minute. The parasol works for a total of up to 10 minutes per day. This duration need not be continuous, but it must be used in 1 minute increments.
While open the parasol makes an easy target, and has a hardness of 0 and 5 hit points.

CONSTRUCTION
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, protective penumbra[SUP]UM[/SUP], open/close; Cost 2,180 gp

Skulker’s Skullcap
Aura faint (no school); CL 7th
Price 800 gp; Slot head; Weight -
A skulker’s skullcap is made of scraps the skin of cave-dwelling creatures, typically bats, rats and moles - crudely sewn together - and covers the top of the head. Up to three times per day, the wearer of the skullcap may apply the effects of the Silent Spell feat, the Still Spell feat, or both, when casting a spell with the darkness descriptor. This does not change the spell’s casting time or effective spell level.

CONSTRUCTION
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, Silent Spell, Still Spell; Cost 400 gp

Blood Vault
Aura moderate necromancy; CL 5th
Price 8,500 gp; Slot none; Weight 8 lbs.
A blood vault is a jar made of undecorated blackened clay filled with a thick, oily liquid, and stands 8 inches tall. A vampire may attune themselves to a blood vault as a full-round action, provided the vault is empty. Thereafter, whenever the vampire would gain temporary hit points through their vampire fangs ability they may instead allocate any number of those temporary hit points to the blood vault, provided that the jar is within 1 mile of the vampire it is attuned to (the vampire does not gain those hit points and they do not count towards her feeding requirements). A vampire touching the blood vault to which they are attuned may withdraw any number of temporary hit points from it as a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, up to the normal cap imposed by her vampire fangs ability.

Storing part of one’s essence in the blood vault is not without risk; if it is destroyed (hardness 3, 2 hit points), the vampire attuned to the blood vault suffers an amount of untyped damage equal to the temporary hit points currently in the jar.

CONSTRUCTION
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, false life, vampiric touch; Cost 4,250 gp

Devil’s Luck
Aura strong necromancy; CL 20th
Slots neck; Weight 1 lbs.
The plain appearance of the devil’s luck belies its power; a small metal spike held on a loop of frayed brown twine. The spike is old and rusted, coated in globs of dried fat and old bloodstains.

A creature may slice off one of their fingers, and impale it on the spike. The devil’s luck is then given to a trusted servant to wear. If the owner of the finger should die or be destroyed, its corpse and all worn and carried items upon it are destroyed, and the bearer of the devil’s luck dies or is destroyed as well (no save). The finger, however, rapidly grows into the body of the original owner (as they were when they when the effect was triggered, including any worn and carried equipment, but completely healed of hit point damage, ability damage, and negative levels other than those inflicted by the necklace). When this happens, their original corpse (including any worn and carried equipment) turns to dust. This is similar to a true resurrection, except that undead creatures can also be restored, though they remain the undead beings they were before their destruction.

The devil’s luck is a relic of some long-forgotten demoness of treachery and spite, who used the it as a kind of magical Trojan horse. She would sell the devil’s luck as a protective charm, and when the purchaser got home the demoness would kill herself, only to appear at the amulet's location and wreak havoc. One day she had the misfortune of appearing in a consecrated chapel filled with an order of paladins. She was destroyed (properly, this time) and the amulet was loose in the world.

The newly restored creature gains a number of negative levels equal to the difference between their number of Hit Die and the bearer’s Hit Die (minimum 1).

DESTRUCTION
If a creature impales their own finger on the devil’s luck, then commits suicide while wearing it, the Luck instantly rusts away into nothingness, and the creature is not restored.

---
Let me know what you think. I wanted to avoid the obvious things like stake-crossbows and super-duper-holy water, in favor of things that gave both sides a few extra tools.


How many hitpoints can a blood fault hold?


Aratrok wrote:
How many hitpoints can a blood fault hold?

Right now? As many as you're willing to put into it, but remember that kicking temp HP into it means you didn't feed on those temp HP.


Aratrok wrote:
How many hitpoints can a blood fault hold?

I'm also a fan of letting it hold as much as you like, as it opens two interesting avenues.

First, it means that if you put too much in there, it becomes a massive Achilles heel (as you're one well-aimed hammer blow from being badly damaged or destroyed outright).

Second, it may open up some interesting storytelling options, where a blood vault filled with thousands of hit points is in the possession of a powerful vampire, and hunting the vault becomes more practical than directly engaging its owner.

Still, while I like those ideas it may not be practical from a balance perspective.


I would probably suggest making it a scaling item honestly. X amount per "level" of the item, the top most level being unlimited maybe?

One, this allows the character to make use of it at lower levels but not hedge their bets too much. Two, at higher levels of play it still remains useful (and deadly). Three, unlimited HP is a balance issue and you can't always assume that the GM is going to have all their bases covered. Best to not make too much available because PCs tend to find loopholes we don't think about.


Ok, finished looking over the document and gotta say it was a pretty good read.

Are there plans to include more fluff?


Maybe I just missed it, but maybe there should be text about what the vampire template from the original bestiary is? I was thinking they would be something like "Legendary purebred vampires" that don't really exist anymore, and the Greater Vampire prestige class is a way of tapping into that power.


Axial wrote:
Maybe I just missed it, but maybe there should be text about what the vampire template from the original bestiary is? I was thinking they would be something like "Legendary purebred vampires" that don't really exist anymore, and the Greater Vampire prestige class is a way of tapping into that power.

Ah...awkward.

Lords of the Night sort of runs on the presumption that in a campaign that uses it, the original vampire template doesn't exist. Which is not to imply that the original is bad! But it has use-for-players difficulties that lead to the creation of the variant presented in the document. The existence of both together creates some worldbuilding problems that are easier to duck than solve. As a result, the original template isn't being addressed at all.


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I'm currently writing a ranger who's enjoying being undead a little too much. I reached for "Undead Companion" feat, but I found that it doesn't quite work so well for animal companions, like this poor alligator. An alligator has a Con of 15 and a Cha of 2. Even the host of undead immunities doesn't make up for that kinda loss.

Since undead alligators should be awesome and terrifying, it's clear that the feat needs a little bump. I'd consider adding a clause that increased their Charisma score to a minimum of 10.

Thoughts?


Undead Companion [General]
Your companion or familiar becomes undead.
Prerequisites: animal companion, dark messenger, or familiar
Benefit: Your animal companion, dark messenger, or familiar gains the undead type (if you have more than one of these features, choose one upon gaining this feat). Do not recalculate its base attack bonus hit points, saving throws, or skill points. If the creature’s Charisma score was less than its Constitution score before becoming undead, its Charisma score becomes equal to its former Constitution. Additionally it gains channel resistance +4. If another ability you possess would permanently alter the affected creature’s type (such as the sorrow’s shadow class feature), instead improve its positive energy resistance by +5 and its channel resistance by +2.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Each time you do, choose another animal companion, dark messenger, or familiar you possess to be affected.

I feel this may work a lot better.


Alexander Clatworthy wrote:

Undead Companion [General]

Your companion or familiar becomes undead.
Prerequisites: animal companion, dark messenger, or familiar
Benefit: Your animal companion, dark messenger, or familiar gains the undead type (if you have more than one of these features, choose one upon gaining this feat). Do not recalculate its base attack bonus hit points, saving throws, or skill points. If the creature’s Charisma score was less than its Constitution score before becoming undead, its Charisma score becomes equal to its former Constitution. Additionally it gains channel resistance +4. If another ability you possess would permanently alter the affected creature’s type (such as the sorrow’s shadow class feature), instead improve its positive energy resistance by +5 and its channel resistance by +2.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Each time you do, choose another animal companion, dark messenger, or familiar you possess to be affected.

I feel this may work a lot better.

I'm not sure that bumping or switching the stats is a good idea. You are increasing hit points but are also giving the companion a crap ton of immunities and combat benefits by being undead. If you want the companion to have better hit points you can increase the CHA score by the attribute bumps via Companion level ups and gear, like normal.


The problem with that is that animal companions have absysmal Cha scores. Like, 2-6. Only a small handful (around 10 out of 100) have Cha 10, and only 3-4 have a Cha above 10. And the Cha of an animal companion isn't really a balance point, it's just kind've a randomly picked number based on how much the author liked that animal. Gimping certain undead companions because of that is kinda silly.


Aratrok wrote:
The problem with that is that animal companions have absysmal Cha scores. Like, 2-6. Only a small handful (around 10 out of 100) have Cha 10, and only 3-4 have a Cha above 10. And the Cha of an animal companion isn't really a balance point, it's just kind've a randomly picked number based on how much the author liked that animal. Gimping certain undead companions because of that is kinda silly.

They are also semi customizable which means the PC can alter and tweak as needed/wanted with feats and gear.

Not everything is going to be a "good choice" and mechanically if they were, what would be the point to making them different? Just build them as an eidolon so the point is moot. If you plan to use certain feats or class choices, sometimes you just have sub par options, this isn't any different. You can either shore up the differences/drawbacks or not make that choice.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Axial wrote:
Oh, and I know you're still debating how to handle vampires in an otherwise non-vampire party, but I had a cool idea: a "family" of three PCs that would include a vampire father, human mother, and dhampir son. That could open up some interesting RP opportunities. :)

"IT'S THE VAMPIRE BRADY BUNCH!"

-Lost Boys.


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...what?

Okay, your first point; there is no amount of tweaking with feats and gear that is going to justify a jump down from 14 Con to 2 Cha on a companion creature's hitpoint determining ability score. That will never under any circumstances be anything other than a trap option.

Second; no, not everything needs to be great. But everything obvious (IE, not things like taking Metamagic on a single class Barbarian) should be good. You shouldn't present players with obvious choices like "I want my companion to be undead too!" and then cripple them horribly because they wanted a cool thing and didn't realize there was a bear trap under it ready to snap off their hitpoints. It doesn't even make any sense in this case, because the difference in Cha between animals is 100% arbitrary and meaningless.


And now I am pleased beyond beyond measure to present the final chapter for Lords of the Night, detailing a shadow society in which vampires gather for mutual protection and community. Now introducing: The Leatherworkers' Guild.

A few of the stat blocks are not yet finished; we're working on those.


The Leatherworker's guild is flippin amazing and would be a great little basis for a campaign or several!

So how would you guys try to incorporate these guys into your campaign?

I'd try to get them to view a council meeting and have them decide who they want to support secretly and let them do as they please. They could be as overt or covert as they want in pushing their faction to victory.

How do you think Astrid would respond to the death of Noras if a group of PCs just up and jumped him? Would she banish them? Have them killed? Reward them? Pretend it never happened?

That's probably best left to GM, but I'd probably have her banish them+give a reward.


Where is the playtest document? Did I miss the link?


Divinitus wrote:
Where is the playtest document? Did I miss the link?

It's a little hidden in the OP, something I didn't consider when I wrote it. You can find it here: Lords of the Night Playtest


Having skimmed through it, I love it so much! VTM for PF! I will give feedback later, but keep me in mind when you're about to release it and send me a message informing me that it is coming out. I cannot hand you the money fast enough!


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Now...just need Ananasi...


Werespiders?


The stat block for Izzie Redwaters has been updated, and now Astrid has been added. Endless thanks to PsyBomb for both!

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