Charm Monster and Planar Binding


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Scarab Sages

Here's how I see it playing out...

(Wizard casts planar binding)
Wizard: "I call a Shadow Demon to the magic circle."
(shadow demon fails his will save, gets dimensional anchor cast upon him, and fails his charisma check to escape the trap)
Wizard: "Ha! I have you now foul beast! Do what I say for the next 24 hours and then I'll release you."
Shadow Demon: "Your petty cage does not frighted me. I do what I please, and when I am free you will pay for inconveniencing me like this."
Wizard: "We'll see about that." (casts charm monster, shadow demon fails will save)
Shadow Demon: "You know, you're actually a pretty cool guy, whatcha up to?"
Wizard: "Oh, you know, just murdering orcs. Nothing special. Hey, do you want to come with? You could totally possess these orcs while we kill them. It would be hilarious!"
Shadow Demon: "Sure thing man, but I usually charge a fee for helping mortals out like this."
Wizard: "Aw, com'on. Do it for me, your pal. It'll be fun, you'll see."
Shadow Demon: "OK, what the heck. I'll do it. And afterwards, we can have a BBQ at my plane."
Wizard: "Whatever you say, pal." (winks at the rest of the party)

Orc murdering ensues. The shadow demon fears and hurls rocks like a champ. Then some pesky spell caster ruins the day with dispel magic.

Shadow Demon: "What did you do to me? You will pay for this you puny elf!" (casts shadow evocation: fireball...ouch)
Wizard: (casts charm monster, shadow demon fails save)
Shadow Demon: "Please forgive my outburst. I'm just a bit homesick. Lets finish up moping up these orcs and then we can do the BBQ."
Wizard: "Well, we're pretty much done anyway. I deem your service fulfilled." (planar binding is now complete and whisks the delightful shadow demon back to his charming home in the Abyss)


subway rat wrote:

Here's how I see it playing out...

(Wizard casts planar binding)
Wizard: "I call a Shadow Demon to the magic circle."
(shadow demon fails his will save, gets dimensional anchor cast upon him, and fails his charisma check to escape the trap)
Wizard: "Ha! I have you now foul beast! Do what I say for the next 24 hours and then I'll release you."
Shadow Demon: "Your petty cage does not frighted me. I do what I please, and when I am free you will pay for inconveniencing me like this."
Wizard: "We'll see about that." (casts charm monster, shadow demon fails will save)
Shadow Demon: "You know, you're actually a pretty cool guy, whatcha up to?"
Wizard: "Oh, you know, just murdering orcs. Nothing special. Hey, do you want to come with? You could totally possess these orcs while we kill them. It would be hilarious!"
Shadow Demon: "Sure thing man, but I usually charge a fee for helping mortals out like this."
Wizard: "Aw, com'on. Do it for me, your pal. It'll be fun, you'll see."
Shadow Demon: "OK, what the heck. I'll do it. And afterwards, we can have a BBQ at my plane."
Wizard: "Whatever you say, pal." (winks at the rest of the party)

Orc murdering ensues. The shadow demon fears and hurls rocks like a champ. Then some pesky spell caster ruins the day with dispel magic.

Shadow Demon: "What did you do to me? You will pay for this you puny elf!" (casts shadow evocation: fireball...ouch)
Wizard: (casts charm monster, shadow demon fails save)
Shadow Demon: "Please forgive my outburst. I'm just a bit homesick. Lets finish up moping up these orcs and then we can do the BBQ."
Wizard: "Well, we're pretty much done anyway. I deem your service fulfilled." (planar binding is now complete and whisks the delightful shadow demon back to his charming home in the Abyss)

exactly :)

@Bob Bob Bob
I think I finally understand where our disagreement is.

First off, I'm saying planar bound creatures will work for you for free in rare circumstances, like if a demon is destroying a kingdom, a planetar is sure to help you for free because they're good, and they love fighting fiends.

So then I say, with charm monster, I make it so that the target outsider views slave labor as a very reasonable deal for him, therefore is a reasonable contract.

Now, you're saying slave labor is unreasonable regardless of the individual, and I'm using charm monster to force him to accept the unreasonable deal.

Well, I guess you can rule either way, but since every creature's definition of "reasonable contract" is different, and I'm sure a very best friend would help you for free, but you're saying even to a best friend slave labor is unreasonable and I'm using charm to force him instead of persuading or scamming him into believing that slave labor is reasonable, so I guess this is where we agree to disagree.

Or, did I misunderstand your argument again?


No, that covers it pretty well. Basically Charm doesn't change the definition of what they consider "unreasonable" or "impossible".

To expand a little further it's not universal, you can get some outsiders to work for free and you can totally enslave some outsiders. You just can't enslave or get to work for free an outsider that wouldn't anyway with an opposed Charisma check. Imps and Lemures would seem to be the perfect victims to enslave (lawful, weak, probably already bullied by other devils). But a Demon (or anything else made of literal Chaos) would never agree to be enslaved and anything of a high enough level to be useful would have better things to do eventually. So you can get an outsider to help you but the length of service they would consider reasonable would be directly proportional to their power. A Solar/Pit Fiend isn't going to follow you around for a year, probably not even a day. They have better things to do. Even the CR 13 devils are plotting world domination plots. Even the imps have soul-stealing quotas to meet and can't stay away too long (unless you feed them souls). In the end it'll all be GM fiat.

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