How much would this item cost


Rules Questions


I made the mistake of allowing my players to special order weapons and now I am regretting it. Could someone please help me with how much these items cost.

+2 short sword, 1x a day shield of faith , 1x a day silence.

By my math:
+2 short sword = 8,130 gp (Cl 6)
shield of faith - 1 x 6cl x 2,000 gp = 12,000 gp
silence - 2 x 6cl x 2,000 gp = 24,000 gp
total = 44,130 gp

Is this right? My player said that I should multiple by 1.5 but I am not sure what he is talking about.


+2 Short Sword
+2 (8,000) Mwk Short Sword (150 + 10) = 8160

1 X Day Shield of Faith
(Spell Level X Caster Level X 1,800 (Command Word)) / 5 (Charges per day) = 2,160

1 X Day Silence
Same Formula = 4,320

Adding a second ability multiplies the lower cost ability by 1.5 = +1,080

Total = 15,720

This is by the magic item creation rules, but always remember this is subject to DM judgment. (But it looks ok to me) :)

P.S. Good catch on the 6th level Caster. I always forget that.


Wow I was way off on the price...
Oh. I see what I did wrong I forgot to divide by charges per day.

Dark Archive

Careful with that custom magic item thing. Remember that those custom item creation rules are just guidelines and you are encouraged to inflate an items cost if the item is just too powerful for how little it costs to make using the guidelines. It is VERY easy to abuse.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Keep in mind that the formulas are a last resort.

The only existing item with Shield of Faith is Key of the Second Vault and it only provides +2 or +1 if Chaotic alignment for 3,000 gp. It does also have a lock (not unlock) effect and a badly nerfed summon eagle plus an additional +2 Appraise.

Continuous +3 AC (CL 6 Shield of Faith) is set in stone and should never be cheaper than 3*3*2000 = 18,000 gp. That should be at minimum +3 AC on 1/day should be 3,600 gp. This may indicated the +1 or +2 depending on alignment is the majority of the 3,000 gp of the above item.

A lot of items have Silence in various forms, but only one had with Silence. My guess is silence isn't going to cost all that much.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

See I would get almost the other way. Silence as a standard action is vastly more powerful. Since it reduces the casting time from 1 round to standard it because a counter any verbal spell (via readied action).

Thus I would vastly increase the cost silence portion (because of the reduced activation time.) Where as the +3 ac seems fine to me.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

I didn't see the reduction in speed. yes that would be pricy.

As for AC that is strictly the kind of thing prohibited by the price by effect not by chart crafting rules. It is to prohibit things like 1/day Mage Armor for less than 16,000 gp.


Regarding the 1.5 multiplier, it should apply to both additional abilities as they are both New Abilities on top of the normal weapon abilities.

This gives us:
+2 Short Sword = 8160gp
1/day Shield of Faith = 1*6*1800/5*1.5(additional ability) = 2160*1.5 = 3240gp
1/day Silence = 2*6*1800/5*1.5(additional ability) = 4320*1.5 = 6480gp

Total: 17,880gp

Regarding the silence: just specify that it is a full round activation and that should eliminate the problem. Activation times are typically standard action but they can be whatever the item specifies.

Regarding the Shield of Faith: if it is not continuous and it has a short duration it is reasonable to ignore the deflection pricing. But, that would be up to the GM.
The AC element of the table is definitely there to protect against continuous or long lasting AC bonuses such as continuous Shield of Faith or 1/day Mage Armor. In the case of a short duration deflection bonus such as Shield of Faith I do not believe it is necessary.
This is where GM adjudication of the costs involved comes into play.

I would probably set the price to 1/5th of the continuous effect of a Ring of Protection and then increase by 1.5x (additional ability)
Basically: {bonus*bonus*2000*(1/5th)*(additional ability)} = 3*3*2000/5*1.5 = 18000/5*1.5 = 3600*1.5 = 5400gp

This pricing would be based on the idea that 5 castings of a spell is equal to unlimited castings that spell (as per the chart) which is therefore effectively equal to a continuous item that produced the same effect.
Thus, if 5 shields of faith (+3 deflection) = unlimited shield of faith (+3 deflection) then = continuous +3 deflection.

It would also prevent your player from trying to put in an unlimited use Shield of Faith to bypass the Ring of Protection pricing since the price would be identical. (Give an inch and they take a mile.)


James Risner wrote:

I didn't see the reduction in speed. yes that would be pricy.

As for AC that is strictly the kind of thing prohibited by the price by effect not by chart crafting rules. It is to prohibit things like 1/day Mage Armor for less than 16,000 gp.

Nonsense. There is not even any hint in the rules of a 1/day mage armor item needing such a massive price adjustment. The examples provided for comparison were specifically constant use items. So yeah, a 'constant' mage armor item should not be less than 16k. A 1/day mage armor? Shouldn't be anywhere close to it. At most, it should be 16/5 ~ 3.2k.

A wand of mage armor is 750gp, that will provide 1/day mage armor for 50 adventuring days.

A pearl of power is 1000gp, which will not only provide a mage armor 1/day with any arcane caster, the duration will scale with the caster level.

A 1 hour mage armor, 1/day magic item isn't anywhere close to as useful as a constant +4 bracer of armor, and shouldn't be priced anywhere near it.


Thanks for the input. Given all this information I almost wish my math was right...

That said I am definitely going to inflate the price on these weapons. Custom ordering weapons is never cheap.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

_Ozy_ wrote:
There is not even any hint in the rules of a 1/day mage armor item needing such a massive price adjustment.

We couldn't differ more.


_Ozy_, and you just explained your whole stance behind the Ring of Invisibility. Ie: You price things way low.

Yes, a Wand of Mage Armor can provide enough for 50 adventuring days. Yes, a Pearl of Power can do the same for 1000gp. But it still takes up a slot to memorize the spell.

But, if we look at 1/day Mage Armor at 8hours then we come up with: 1*8*1800/5 = 2880gp. That is 18% of the normal 16,000gp and effectively the same bonus. Adventuring days rarely last more than 8hours (heck, many last less than 1 hour).

What if we price it at 24hours (Extended Mage Armor with a CL of 12)?
2*12*1800/5 = 8,640gp and it is now all day long. That is 54% of normal.

In short, you have a skewed way of looking at pricing. You keep looking at it from the point of view of a consumable. You really should look at it from the constant point of view instead.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Gauss wrote:

What if we price it at 24hours (Extended Mage Armor with a CL of 12)?

2*12*1800/5 = 8,640gp and it is now all day long. That is 54% of normal.

Thanks Gauss for the example.

Keep in mind doing so explicitly violates rule number #1 of item creation. Price based on other items. There are other items (Bracers of Armor) that would be 16,000 gp. You may not every under any circumstance price below 16,000 gp for an item that provides constant +4 AC.

Most of the item pricing issues in the custom items arise from people jumping to the chart first instead of last after exhausting similar items and items of similar power.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

MW is 300gp, not 150gp.


Gauss wrote:

_Ozy_, and you just explained your whole stance behind the Ring of Invisibility. Ie: You price things way low.

Yes, a Wand of Mage Armor can provide enough for 50 adventuring days. Yes, a Pearl of Power can do the same for 1000gp. But it still takes up a slot to memorize the spell.

But, if we look at 1/day Mage Armor at 8hours then we come up with: 1*8*1800/5 = 2880gp. That is 18% of the normal 16,000gp and effectively the same bonus. Adventuring days rarely last more than 8hours (heck, many last less than 1 hour).

What if we price it at 24hours (Extended Mage Armor with a CL of 12)?
2*12*1800/5 = 8,640gp and it is now all day long. That is 54% of normal.

In short, you have a skewed way of looking at pricing. You keep looking at it from the point of view of a consumable. You really should look at it from the constant point of view instead.

I said 1/day at 1 hour.

1/day at 8 hours I would probably discount from 16000k to ~8k or so, because a dispel magic would hose you, and any attack at night would as well.

Guys, anything that isn't constant shouldn't be as valuable as something that is, otherwise you devalue having things that 'just work' all the time.

In short, you guys seem to play at tables with 1 encounter per day that is always known in advance. Yes, for games like these single shot magic items are just as useful as constant items.

For those of us who play with multiple encounters per day, having a constant item actually has value.

Edit: I look at it in two ways, by comparing to constant items and discounting for the 'non-constant' nature, and 2) by comparing against comparable consumable or round-about methods of obtaining the same effect (e.g. pearl of power)

Btw, the pearl of power is far more flexible than an item that restricts you to a single 1-hour mage armor 1/day in that the duration will scale with the arcane caster and you could use it for other spells when mage armor is not needed.


James Risner wrote:
Gauss wrote:

What if we price it at 24hours (Extended Mage Armor with a CL of 12)?

2*12*1800/5 = 8,640gp and it is now all day long. That is 54% of normal.

Thanks Gauss for the example.

Keep in mind doing so explicitly violates rule number #1 of item creation. Price based on other items. There are other items (Bracers of Armor) that would be 16,000 gp. You may not every under any circumstance price below 16,000 gp for an item that provides constant +4 AC.

Most of the item pricing issues in the custom items arise from people jumping to the chart first instead of last after exhausting similar items and items of similar power.

Geeze, one would have thought that I would have mentioned that it wasn't providing a constant effect.

Oh yeah, I did. Multiple times.

Most of the pricing item controversy arise from people not actually reading what is proposed and jumping to conclusions that people are trying to get constant effects for less than book value.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Isn't that "1.5 x cost" for multiple abilities rule only really there for slotted items, like headbands and rings?


Ravingdork wrote:
Isn't that "1.5 x cost" for multiple abilities rule only really there for slotted items, like headbands and rings?

A weapon is essentially a slotted item.

You're not paying the x2 cost for "No space limitation"


The other question for the OPs calculations: Are those two spells being explicitly done at caster level 6? Normally items default to the lowest caster level that can cast the spell, even if the caster is higher level. I'm normally pretty wary of breaking that, even with the formula cost bump.


thejeff wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Isn't that "1.5 x cost" for multiple abilities rule only really there for slotted items, like headbands and rings?

A weapon is essentially a slotted item.

You're not paying the x2 cost for "No space limitation"

It's not really the same though. You can have a dozen+ weapons ready in that 'slot'. An alchemist could have 4 gauntlets, 4 1 handed double weapons (Taiaha) or 8 weapons, blade boots, armor spikes, boulder helmet, Barbazu beard, tail blade, sea knives... So 20 items filling a slot?


graystone wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Isn't that "1.5 x cost" for multiple abilities rule only really there for slotted items, like headbands and rings?

A weapon is essentially a slotted item.

You're not paying the x2 cost for "No space limitation"

It's not really the same though. You can have a dozen+ weapons ready in that 'slot'. An alchemist could have 4 gauntlets, 4 1 handed double weapons (Taiaha) or 8 weapons, blade boots, armor spikes, boulder helmet, Barbazu beard, tail blade, sea knives... So 20 items filling a slot?

A little more complicated, though really cases where you've got more than a couple weapons in use at a time are going to be rare. Some of those you're suggesting are also taking up actual slots (gauntlets, boots, helmets)

But if you want to argue that weapons are effectively slotless, then they need the x2 multiplier for being slotless. Otherwise, extra powers need the x1.5 multiplier. Possibly extra powers get the x1.5 anyway, though it doesn't seem really necessary for unslotted items, since there's no disadvantage for having 2.
But it should apply to the sword: In most cases, a sword with 2 powers is going to be more useful than two swords with one of the powers apiece.


thejeff wrote:
graystone wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Isn't that "1.5 x cost" for multiple abilities rule only really there for slotted items, like headbands and rings?

A weapon is essentially a slotted item.

You're not paying the x2 cost for "No space limitation"

It's not really the same though. You can have a dozen+ weapons ready in that 'slot'. An alchemist could have 4 gauntlets, 4 1 handed double weapons (Taiaha) or 8 weapons, blade boots, armor spikes, boulder helmet, Barbazu beard, tail blade, sea knives... So 20 items filling a slot?

A little more complicated, though really cases where you've got more than a couple weapons in use at a time are going to be rare. Some of those you're suggesting are also taking up actual slots (gauntlets, boots, helmets)

But if you want to argue that weapons are effectively slotless, then they need the x2 multiplier for being slotless. Otherwise, extra powers need the x1.5 multiplier. Possibly extra powers get the x1.5 anyway, though it doesn't seem really necessary for unslotted items, since there's no disadvantage for having 2.
But it should apply to the sword: In most cases, a sword with 2 powers is going to be more useful than two swords with one of the powers apiece.

I think what I'd argue is that they don't fall under the slot or no slot categories. It's a weapon.

As far as actual slots, I'd point to armor/shields. Weapon enchants don't affect the slot abilities in a negative way. I don't see why that would differ if it is instead gauntlets, boots or helmets.


graystone wrote:
thejeff wrote:
graystone wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Isn't that "1.5 x cost" for multiple abilities rule only really there for slotted items, like headbands and rings?

A weapon is essentially a slotted item.

You're not paying the x2 cost for "No space limitation"

It's not really the same though. You can have a dozen+ weapons ready in that 'slot'. An alchemist could have 4 gauntlets, 4 1 handed double weapons (Taiaha) or 8 weapons, blade boots, armor spikes, boulder helmet, Barbazu beard, tail blade, sea knives... So 20 items filling a slot?

A little more complicated, though really cases where you've got more than a couple weapons in use at a time are going to be rare. Some of those you're suggesting are also taking up actual slots (gauntlets, boots, helmets)

But if you want to argue that weapons are effectively slotless, then they need the x2 multiplier for being slotless. Otherwise, extra powers need the x1.5 multiplier. Possibly extra powers get the x1.5 anyway, though it doesn't seem really necessary for unslotted items, since there's no disadvantage for having 2.
But it should apply to the sword: In most cases, a sword with 2 powers is going to be more useful than two swords with one of the powers apiece.

I think what I'd argue is that they don't fall under the slot or no slot categories. It's a weapon.

As far as actual slots, I'd point to armor/shields. Weapon enchants don't affect the slot abilities in a negative way. I don't see why that would differ if it is instead gauntlets, boots or helmets.

I'm not sure of your point. Are you saying that for weapons, and armor (and gauntlets, boots and helmets? Only if they have weapon bonuses?), you can add any number of powers, like casting Shield of Faith and Silence x/day, with no added cost for putting multiple such powers on one item?

Edit: It's not entirely clear to me whether the base weapon bonus counts as the first and all further abilities count as "additional" or the bonus doesn't count and the first such added ability is normal price and only the following ones are multiplied.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

To be clear, weapons do NOT take up a slot. Magical item slots are clearly established within the rules.


Ravingdork wrote:
To be clear, weapons do NOT take up a slot. Magical item slots are clearly established within the rules.

Then, according to the guidelines, those powers need the x2 slotless multiplier.

Note as well that the 1.5 multiplier for added abilities does not say "Only for slotted items", so according to the guidelines, it should apply as well.

Standard weapon abilities obviously don't follow this pattern, since they have their own pricing guidelines.

In fact, the whole approach to this question may be wrong. Should these abilities be added to the weapon as bonus equivalents, rather than with the normal magic item cost guidelines?


thejeff wrote:

I'm not sure of your point. Are you saying that for weapons, and armor (and gauntlets, boots and helmets? Only if they have weapon bonuses?), you can add any number of powers, like casting Shield of Faith and Silence x/day, with no added cost for putting multiple such powers on one item?

Edit: It's not entirely clear to me whether the base weapon bonus counts as the first and all further abilities count as "additional" or the bonus doesn't count and the first such added ability is normal price and only the following ones are multiplied.

As I see it, weapons are neutral abilities. Any extras are added as if the weapon part isn't there much like the static abilities like glamered add set costs. So for Shield of Faith and Silence x/day, I'd say the first is normal cost and the second is as per multiple abilities, the weapon enchants not being counted.

"Should these abilities be added to the weapon as bonus equivalents, rather than with the normal magic item cost guidelines?": You have abilities NOW that just cost a set amount of GP and don't cost pluses, so why should these abilities be forces into a plus?

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Weapons that give 1/day benefits are pretty rare anyway. Whether or not they add the power at 1.5 or 2.0 times isn't determined in the rules. I think their rarity alone speaks to a suggestion to not try to do these types of things in a weapon.


graystone wrote:
thejeff wrote:

I'm not sure of your point. Are you saying that for weapons, and armor (and gauntlets, boots and helmets? Only if they have weapon bonuses?), you can add any number of powers, like casting Shield of Faith and Silence x/day, with no added cost for putting multiple such powers on one item?

Edit: It's not entirely clear to me whether the base weapon bonus counts as the first and all further abilities count as "additional" or the bonus doesn't count and the first such added ability is normal price and only the following ones are multiplied.

As I see it, weapons are neutral abilities. Any extras are added as if the weapon part isn't there much like the static abilities like glamered add set costs. So for Shield of Faith and Silence x/day, I'd say the first is normal cost and the second is as per multiple abilities, the weapon enchants not being counted.

"Should these abilities be added to the weapon as bonus equivalents, rather than with the normal magic item cost guidelines?": You have abilities NOW that just cost a set amount of GP and don't cost pluses, so why should these abilities be forces into a plus?

True. Though following the actual rules, I'd look first for weapons with similar abilities and price according to those, rather than blindly following the formulas. I'd have to look more closely to see whether these abilities more resemble standard weapon bonus abilities or those few weapon abilities which are fixed price.


James Risner wrote:
Weapons that give 1/day benefits are pretty rare anyway. Whether or not they add the power at 1.5 or 2.0 times isn't determined in the rules. I think their rarity alone speaks to a suggestion to not try to do these types of things in a weapon.

True, off the top of my head, radiant does daylight 1/day and light at will. Daylight would be 6480 and light at will would be 1000 and the ability is 7500gp. It doesn't look as is 1.5 or 2 times comes into it as it comes mighty close to the base cost off the charts.

EDIT: this IS for armor though, but weapons/armor work close to each other.


Just go look at the intelligent magic item section for comparison. Then eyeball it for your own needs. Bam! done.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Intelligent items are not a direct comparison, as they have ego issues and other complications.


Ravingdork wrote:
Isn't that "1.5 x cost" for multiple abilities rule only really there for slotted items, like headbands and rings?

Ravingdork may have a point here. Based on that it would be 2x cost rather than 1.5x cost. But, whether the GM determines it is 1.5x or 2x it is still a higher price per enchantment than normal.


Resist energy 10:
SL * CL * 2000 = 12k
armor cost = 18k, factor = 1.5

Resist energy 20:
SL * CL * 2000 = 28k
armor cost = 42k, factor = 1.5

Slick +10 escape artist:
skill bonus ^2 = 10k
armor cost = 15k, factor = 1.5

Etherealness (as ethereal jaunt 1/day):
SL * CL * 1800 * 1/5 = 32760
armor cost = 49k, factor ~ 1.5 (49140) Note: armor duration is 'unlimited', not as per the duration of the spell, no effect on price.

I'm seeing a pattern here. ;)


Yes, thank you for pointing out the application of the already explained rule regarding additional abilities and slotted items. However, as previously stated Weapons are not slotted items.


There was some question above regarding armor as well, but thanks for your dismissal. So far the couple of weapons I looked at don't seem quite as clear, it's not a simple x1.5 or x2.

For example, Flame Tongue is about a x1.25 for it's 1/day Scorching Ray ability.


Weapons also appear to use the x1.5 factor for additional abilities:

Hurricane Quarterstaff: 7840
+1 double weapon: 4600
Gust of Wind 1/day: 2 * 3 * 1800 / 5 * 1.5 = 3240

Flame Tongue: 20715
+1 flame burst: 18315
2 * 3 * 1800 / 5 * 1.5 * .75 = 2430 (.75 for similar ability 'fire attack')

most other weapons are difficult to calculate due to their nonstandard abilities, or special conditions regarding when the abilities are active. I'm sure with enough time you could decipher the formula.


James Risner wrote:
Intelligent items are not a direct comparison, as they have ego issues and other complications.

Really?

FLAME TONGUE PRICE 20,715 GP
AURA strong evocation CL 12th WEIGHT 4 lbs.
This is a +1 flaming burst longsword. Once per day, the sword can blast forth a fiery ray at any target within 30 feet as a ranged touch attack. The ray deals 4d6 points of fire damage on a successful hit.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS COST 10,515 GP
Craft Magic Arms and Armor, scorching ray and fireball, flame blade, or flame strike

So, lets break this down.
+1 flaming burst = 18,000 gp
Masterwork longsword = 315 gp
Total = 18,315 gp
Subtract that from the whole price of the flame tongue and you get 2,400 gp

Now look at the chart for 2nd-level spells you can cast once per day under intelligent items.

26–35 Item can cast a 2nd-level spell 1/day +2,400 gp +1

Wow! Exactly the same pricing.
Now is this always going to work out that way? No, probably not. Which is why I said to eyeball it. Its almost always pretty close though.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

You can have things in an Intelligent item that you couldn't have in a non-Intelligent item.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
James Risner wrote:
You can have things in an Intelligent item that you couldn't have in a non-Intelligent item.

Like what?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
thejeff wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Isn't that "1.5 x cost" for multiple abilities rule only really there for slotted items, like headbands and rings?

A weapon is essentially a slotted item.

You're not paying the x2 cost for "No space limitation"

Correct the times 2 cost is intended for wondrous items that don't take up a slot.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

It has always been my understanding there are not "similar items or similar power" issues with intelligent items. Primarily because the Intelligent item has it's own mind. It may not always use it's power the way you wish.

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