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Surpassing even The Boss: N. Jolly's guide to the Pathfinder Gunslinger


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Silver Crusade

15 people marked this as a favorite.

Man, I've been working on this for 5 days and barely anyone found it. Must have been because of how stealthy it was.

I give my life
Not for honor, but for you
In my time there'll be no one else
Crime, it's the way I fly to you
I'm still in a dream, Snake Eater
I'm still in a dream, Snake Eater!

That's right, I'm back with a new guide for the gunslinger, and surprise, it's already finished! No WIP tag on this, it's officially done, although that doesn't mean I'm not still taking suggestions, looking for feedback, and hoping to have everyone play the best Solid Snake they can.


Wait what? Well I wasn't expecting that. I hope it guest-stars alchemist multiclass suggestions! *reads*

EDIT: Nope, sad. Very nice, straight-to-the-point guide for gunslinging though, thumbs up. I've been interested in gunslingers lately and will re-review on the morrow to make suggestions. Keep up the good work!


dot for later


This Gunslinger doesn't even know the basics of CQC.


Very nice guide.

Comments:

Firstly, Is Eldritch Heritage (Sylvan) actually possible? I thought you couldn't do that, as it requires a sorcerer archetype, not just a normal bloodline.

Secondly, don't you think you should include more of the options for TWF with guns? You mentioned Gun Twirling and Prehensile Tail, but if you can't be a tiefling and you don't have that many spare feats, you can also accomplish this by dipping two levels in Juggler bard, Alchemist, or Feral Gnasher Barbarian.

Finally, I think you were a little bit too quick to discount the Double Hackbut. There will be some times when you will have time to set it up. If you cannot, you can fire it anyway. -4 to hit isn't that bad against touch AC, and falling prone isn't a big deal if you invest in the feats that can actually turn it into a benefit.

And that's not even considering the possibilities of becoming bigger. Simply spending the money for Enlarge Person and Permanency will make all of the setting up issues vanish.

But if you build for it, you can do better. You could have, say, a gunslinger/druid/barbarian that turns into a Huge fire elemental and fires it with Vital Strike and Furious Finish for 192 base damage before any modifiers. Obviously that's not a typical build, but I'm sure there are many effective ways for gunslingers to make use of the best non-unarmed/natural weapon damage in the game, and it seems like you just sort of discarded it.

Silver Crusade

Exguardi wrote:

Wait what? Well I wasn't expecting that. I hope it guest-stars alchemist multiclass suggestions! *reads*

EDIT: Nope, sad. Very nice, straight-to-the-point guide for gunslinging though, thumbs up. I've been interested in gunslingers lately and will re-review on the morrow to make suggestions. Keep up the good work!

Honestly as much as I love the Alch, the APG passed off the best parts of it to other classes, at least as far as Dipping goes. I tried to stick with full-ish BAB classes for dips, and the best part of dipping Alch for a Slinger would be Mutagen, which Mutagenic Warrior does WAY better.

I'm actually glad to post this guide in its entirety, as normally I'm posting WIP, but I appreciate the thanks, I hope you find it useful.

Lantern Lodge

N. Jolly has gone the next step! First, his crazy alchemists were destroying encounters with their deadly bombs, but he decided he could take it to a whole new level! Here's to: The gunslinger, the alchemist who puts his bombs behind rocks inside of metal tubes! A natural transition, to be sure.

Sovereign Court

What is CQC?

Silver Crusade

Avoron wrote:
Very nice guide.

Thank you!

Quote:

Comments:

Firstly, Is Eldritch Heritage (Sylvan) actually possible? I thought you couldn't do that, as it requires a sorcerer archetype, not just a normal bloodline.

As far as I've seen from rulings, it works. If there's evidence that it doesn't, I'll remove it. I remember hearing there's two feats you can use to get an animal companion too, does anyone remember those?

Quote:
Secondly, don't you think you should include more of the options for TWF with guns? You mentioned Gun Twirling and Prehensile Tail, but if you can't be a tiefling and you don't have that many spare feats, you can also accomplish this by dipping two levels in Juggler bard, Alchemist, or Feral Gnasher Barbarian.

Those two levels in Juggler Bard are just letting you dual wield guns which isn't a lot for a two level dip. I'd honestly consider TWF with guns a two feat tax aside from TWF feats, which is Dazzling Display (not a bad feat) and Gun Twirling, which is the centerpiece. I honestly don't think any of those dips give enough, especially since you're pushing your progression back by 2 levels. I didn't look up Feral Gnasher, although I'd rather pay two feats instead of two levels in another class.

Quote:
Finally, I think you were a little bit too quick to discount the Double Hackbut. There will be some times when you will have time to set it up. If you cannot, you can fire it anyway. -4 to hit isn't that bad against touch AC, and falling prone isn't a big deal if you invest in the feats that can actually turn it into a benefit.

This I will give you, although all it's giving is base damage for a -4 to hit, and base damage isn't great. It's an extra d12 of damage for that, which is okay, although which feats are you talking about that let you work better on the ground?

Quote:

And that's not even considering the possibilities of becoming bigger. Simply spending the money for Enlarge Person and Permanency will make all of the setting up issues vanish.

But if you build for it, you can do better. You could have, say, a gunslinger/druid/barbarian that turns into a Huge fire elemental and fires it with Vital Strike and Furious Finish for 192 base damage before any modifiers. Obviously that's not a typical build, but I'm sure there are many effective ways for gunslingers to make use of the best non-unarmed/natural weapon damage in the game, and it seems like you just sort of discarded it.

For me, your best damage doesn't come from base damage, it's from static multipliers, and going big is a hassle. It's more of an agree to disagree moment there.

And a Gunslinger/Druid/Barbarian is outside of the scope of a guide like this, that seems like the Barb/Druid is doing most of the heavy lifting there. While I'll admit that 2d12 is nice base damage, the problem with the slinger isn't that it can't do damage. I'm not doing it to say "This is the most damage, suck it god!" or else I wouldn't have 3 sections warning against double barreled pistols. Most of my guides tend to assume a minimum of dipping, and the build you're proposing seems like it'd be better with a Trench Fighter to get Gun Training earlier, making the Gunslinger part of it superfluous.

Silver Crusade

OilHorse wrote:
What is CQC?

Why yes, I did assume everyone played MGS3. I really should have explained this, that's my fault.

CQC is Close Quarters Combat. I should probably spell that out somewhere in the guide, but it's referencing the style of combat used in Metal Gear Solid 3 in which one uses both a gun and knife to optimize close quarters combat interaction. It's generally performed with a knife/dagger and pistol, but sadly since clip sizes are non existent in this, it's impossible except for punching.

Sovereign Court

I have been toying with gunslinger in herolab...what is your concern with double barrel pistols?


The feats you're thinking of are Nature Soul and Animal Ally.

As for the rest, makes sense. Although I think Gun Twirling costs 3 feats, actually, because ranged builds are feat intensive enough that Quick Draw would normally not be a priority.

Silver Crusade

Avoron wrote:

The feats you're thinking of are Nature Soul and Animal Ally.

As for the rest, makes sense. Although I think Gun Twirling costs 3 feats, actually, because ranged builds are feat intensive enough that Quick Draw would normally not be a priority.

GDI, I forgot quick draw in the TWF build.

I have things to add/sub from the guide, but it's all to make a better guide for the community to use, thanks for cluing me in.

Sovereign Court

Also wanted to point out that you don't mention the "Just as New" trait.

Silver Crusade

OilHorse wrote:
I have been toying with gunslinger in herolab...what is your concern with double barrel pistols?

They do too much damage. They literally double the output of any character for a -4 to attack rolls, which means nothing. They break the damage curve, and must be accounted for.

Quote:
Also wanted to point out that you don't mention the "Just as New" trait.

Yeah, I don't think it's a good trait, it saves you a little money and makes your gun better when it's garbo. Maybe for a gun scavenger, but that's not a situation I want to build around when Never Stop Shooting exist.

Silver Crusade

FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:
N. Jolly has gone the next step! First, his crazy alchemists were destroying encounters with their deadly bombs, but he decided he could take it to a whole new level! Here's to: The gunslinger, the alchemist who puts his bombs behind rocks inside of metal tubes! A natural transition, to be sure.

My Alchemist? I wish. Although I do wonder how many PFS games have had a character made by one of my guides making a GM tear their hair out.

Personally I want to hit up Gencon again eventually and see if I can't run some games, have people face off against NPCs set up to straight up destroy them, one for each of my guides.

And if we're talking transitions, first I had to make them wear deerstalker caps and become gentlemen before I gave them guns.


I think the best part of the alchemist dip for Gunslinger is the extra arm, explosive missile, and grenadier's infuse ammunition.

'Corse, Mutagen warrior does 2 out of 3 there.


N.Jolly: In the guide you state "Fate’s Favored Good for most, GREAT for half-orcs"

Why is this trait great for half-orcs? What am I missing?

Silver Crusade

LoneKnave wrote:

I think the best part of the alchemist dip for Gunslinger is the extra arm, explosive missile, and grenadier's infuse ammunition.

'Corse, Mutagen warrior does 2 out of 3 there.

I might add Alchemist to the multiclass section, but Fighter gives 2 feats, which really help the strain of getting Gun Twirling. Ideal TWF build like that would be Trench 3/Experimental Gunner X.

I mean a 2nd level Alch is getting an extra arm, 20 min mutagen (same as Mutagenic Warrior), some extracts, some bombs, and +3 reflex.

2nd level Mutagenic Warrior is getting 2 feats, medium/heavy armor, shields (I admit both of those are weak), +1 BAB, and it can be taken with Armor Master for a +1 to touch AC when wielding a buckler.

I'll admit I tried to side with a more 'normal' gunslinger, but Alch isn't a bad choice. I'll have to look over some of the archetypes for them to see if there's a few worth adding.


*cursory glance*

Nice and thorough...includes dual-pistoling, but, with my quick CTRL-F look through (I would do more depth, but it's late, I'm tired, and I just wanted to give a looksie real quick before bed), I noticed when you mentioned double-pistoling you didn't mention the downside.

Mainly, the range on pistols is laughable, which is a major feature when your build is dependant on full-attacking. Furthermore, you don't get access to touch attacks beyond the first increment if you're a pistolero until 7th level, which is pretty necessary given the range increment of pistols...and, seriously, half the fun of pistols is Up Close and Personal, so who wouldn't go pistolero?

Silver Crusade

Twoswords wrote:

N.Jolly: In the guide you state "Fate’s Favored Good for most, GREAT for half-orcs"

Why is this trait great for half-orcs? What am I missing?

Okay, so the reason it's great for Half-Orcs is due to the Half-Orc having the following racial trait that they can trade for:

Ugly Half-Orc wrote:
Sacred Tattoo Many half-orcs decorate themselves with tattoos, piercings, and ritual scarification, which they consider sacred markings. Half-orcs with this racial trait gain a +1 luck bonus on all saving throws. This racial trait replaces orc ferocity.

Now, combine that with Fate's Favored:

Fate's Favored wrote:
Benefit: Whenever you are under the effect of a luck bonus of any kind, that bonus increases by 1.

And this trait becomes a +1 to all saves. Even better for an Archaeologist Bard who gets a luck bonus to everything as well.


I agree on the double-pistol duel-wielding being nonsense. Mainly just Double Barreled Pistols being nonsense...perhaps if they were considered a two-handed weapon...

Ah well, can't be helped.

Also, CESTUS with guns for Duel-wielding? GENUIS. Why did I not think of that? That is such a good build and it makes me want to build Big Boss.

Here is one thing N.Jolly. I love your guides, a lot, but I have one last little gun build I didn't see in your guide and you were talking down on my favorite guns.

The Big Ones

I present the final option: The Dropshotter

Needed:
Musket Master
AND
Rogue 2/Slinger X: Stand Up Rogue Talent
OR
2 Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike and Monkey Style
OR
Monk 1 (Maneuver Master)/Rogue X: Take the Above two feats
OR
Rogue 2/Slinger X and 2 Feats: Stand Up Rogue Talent AND IUS+MS

So, What is a Dropshotter? Drop Shotters are annoying twerps that inhabit my FPSs and at the first sign of danger they drop prone, hit the deck, and start spraying their guns. While they do it to avoid the instinctual counter attack aimed at the head and chest of their foes (Which, as it happens, is something that also applies to this Gunslinger because +4AC against ranged attacks while prone)

In this case, however, Dropshotters are doing more than just dropping to the floor to avoid damage. They are dropping to the floor in order to make the Culverin and Double Hackbut incredible weapons.

What is the big problem with those two guns?

They knock you prone when fired without support and give you a -4 to hit

How do we solve that problem?

By being able to stand up as a free/swift action with the options above.
A: Monkey Style means you never provoke while standing up AND allows you to stand as a swift action.
B: Stand Up is a rogue Talent that allows you to stand as a free action.

By using one of those options you can, on your turn, drop to the ground as a Free action, take your full attack with a massive weapon, and then stand back up. All you incur is a -4 to each attack, with a wide variety of benefits.

What is the benefit?

The Culverin: 2d8 Twice the conical range, crit, and damage of the Blunderbuss with half the misfire. BUT you Cannot fire Normal shot.

The Double Hackbut: Ten more range per increment, double the damage of any musket, double the ammunition in a clip of a normal musket.

Honestly is it worth it?
No clue, but it is a fun build IMO. Rapid Shot allows you to take a -2 to all your attacks to hit once more, this allows you to roll an additional damage dice per shot including Rapid Shot. Total at max level is 5d8 or 5d12 additional damage.

5-40 per target or 5-60 damage total.


One more thing: you mention opening volley. I think savage technologist with opening volley is amazing. You can grab it as your first feat, you get TWF while raging, and it gives your second attack (as long as you use your gun as primary) a +4 boost; combine this with the gun almost always hitting (since it's targeting touch in melee) and not getting any AoOs because of sword&gun and it's just a really nice package of awesome.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

If you use slayer instead of rogue, you get another BAB, and you aren't a rogue, both of which are nice.

Shadow Lodge

You just ninja'd me! i was also thinking on writing an updated gunslinger guide. Good job tought, ill check this later and give my comments


N.Jolly: I see. That is indeed pretty darn good.

Silver Crusade

thegreenteagamer wrote:

*cursory glance*

Nice and thorough...includes dual-pistoling, but, with my quick CTRL-F look through (I would do more depth, but it's late, I'm tired, and I just wanted to give a looksie real quick before bed), I noticed when you mentioned double-pistoling you didn't mention the downside.

Mainly, the range on pistols is laughable, which is a major feature when your build is dependant on full-attacking. Furthermore, you don't get access to touch attacks beyond the first increment if you're a pistolero until 7th level, which is pretty necessary given the range increment of pistols...and, seriously, half the fun of pistols is Up Close and Personal, so who wouldn't go pistolero?

Well it's not like double barreled pistols have less distance than regular ones (which would be fair), although the idea of needing to be within 10 feet of someone to use a ranged weapon feels apex silly. Even with the additional 20 ft of range, you're still pretty up close. It's why I honestly like Bolt Ace more than the base Gunslinger.

LoneKnave wrote:
One more thing: you mention opening volley. I think savage technologist with opening volley is amazing. You can grab it as your first feat, you get TWF while raging, and it gives your second attack (as long as you use your gun as primary) a +4 boost; combine this with the gun almost always hitting (since it's targeting touch in melee) and not getting any AoOs because of gun&blade and it's just a really nice package of awesome.

God, I wish there was a good way to mix Savage Technologist with Gunslinger, but the best way of doing it would be Trench Fighter 3/Savage Technologist X.

The problem with Opening Volley with ST's Sword and Pistol is literally that you need to be attacking with a weapon in your other hand, and unless you have a spare agile weapon laying around, it's just not worth it to me for one solid swing.

Gun and Blade is hype, but there's no solid way to do it, which makes me the sad wolf.

ElementalXX wrote:
You just ninja'd me! i was also thinking on writing an updated gunslinger guide. Good job tought, ill check this later and give my comments

Funny thing, my original Alch guide was also a 'swordsaged' guide, since the people on GitP were working on one at the same time. I hope you still make one or maybe just an in depth guide on the Bolt Ace, I'm really loving that.

Twoswords wrote:
N.Jolly: I see. That is indeed pretty darn good.

It's quite nice, it's one of the reasons I'm growing to like Half Orcs more and more as a player race.


First thoughts: "No mention of The Fear (Crossbows) in the roles section?"

Silver Crusade

thegreenteagamer wrote:
If you use slayer instead of rogue, you get another BAB, and you aren't a rogue, both of which are nice.

Everyone who slams the Rogue in this thread gets a high five.

Tonlim wrote:
First thoughts: "No mention of The Fear (Crossbows) in the roles section?"

...

...

...

I've failed you.

Fission Mailed.

God help me, I could probably replace Vulcan Raven for that, since Scatter is barely its own style, and I LOVE Bolt Ace.


Why would you go trench 3 with savage technologist? I mean, it only gives DEX to damamge while raging, but you'll be raging all the time by 5, and get DEX to damage at the same level to boot.

Also, agile cestus! Agile cestus everywhere!

And util you get that, you still get a nice STR boost, so your offhand won't be that much behind.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I have one thing to say to this guide.

You're pretty good. *finger guns*

Shadow Lodge

Yes! I think I will try to make a in depth guide for the Bolt Ace. question: Would you mind if I use some of your text for some things like items ?

Silver Crusade

ElementalXX wrote:
Yes! I think I will try to make a in depth guide for the Bolt Ace. question: Would you mind if I use some of your text for some things like items ?

As long as you credit me, you can steal the entire guide. Seriously, just name it "ElementalXX's slightly better Gunslinger Guide."

I steal from my own guides, and I know how much I hate repeating text, so take what you need, and let me know when it's done so I can cross link it with my guide.

LoneKnave wrote:

Why would you go trench 3 with savage technologist? I mean, it only gives DEX to damamge while raging, but you'll be raging all the time by 5, and get DEX to damage at the same level to boot.

Also, agile cestus! Agile cestus everywhere!

And util you get that, you still get a nice STR boost, so your offhand won't be that much behind.

Well you're getting a dex boost, so I guess it's a matter of caring about ANY strength for a Barb, but I just don't see the deeds being worth the feats if you're going Savage Tech X. If the focus of the build is Savage Tech and the guns are just for dex damage, I'd want to get my dex damage ASAP, as well as the bonus feats.

Also it took a while to think of how to actually CQC, and Agile Cestus was the best solution. God, I wish there was a way to lighten it to allow you not to need Weapon Finesse, since the CQC build is so busy.

I'd still go Trench 3, but that's just me, you could easily go Gun (archetype) 5, although I feel like Gunslinger really hits stride at either 5 or 11 for Sig Deed.

EDIT: Didn't see Crack Shot, that's my bad for not reading it all. Yeah, Savage Tech doesn't even need Slinger.


Oh, also, N. Jolly you can totally steal my Dropshotter explanation to add to your guide if you want. Or rephrase it, or do whatever with the build idea. It might even make for a way to keep Vulcan Raven as a combat Style since it allows you to use the REALLY big guns.

I just thought it would be worth mentioning.

Silver Crusade

ShroudedInLight wrote:

Oh, also, N. Jolly you can totally steal my Dropshotter explanation to add to your guide if you want. Or rephrase it, or do whatever with the build idea. It might even make for a way to keep Vulcan Raven as a combat Style since it allows you to use the REALLY big guns.

I just thought it would be worth mentioning.

If I put it in the guide, I'm totally crediting you. It is interesting to make big guns more viable. It's cool and silly, which is something both MGS and this guide need more of. I'll probably put it in the sample build section, although I'm open for more multiclass suggestions now.

If I put Alchemist in my guide, it's going to punch my formatting in the face and leave a lot of white space afterwards, so maybe I'll look over other stuff (or just remove Ranger, Freebooter isn't even that great.)

It saddens me Vulcan Raven can't be more of a full style, but sometimes that's how it happens. I appreciate the contribution though.

Shadow Lodge

N. Jolly wrote:
ElementalXX wrote:
Yes! I think I will try to make a in depth guide for the Bolt Ace. question: Would you mind if I use some of your text for some things like items ?

As long as you credit me, you can steal the entire guide. Seriously, just name it "ElementalXX's slightly better Gunslinger Guide."

I steal from my own guides, and I know how much I hate repeating text, so take what you need, and let me know when it's done so I can cross link it with my guide.

LOL, ok maybe not that shamelessly but still thanks xD. Ill let you know when its done


Other things missed:

Mysterious Stranger: 2 level dip into Paladin/Antipaladin grants you Cha to damage and Cha to saves. Sure it is once per day but the double Cha to damage is pretty good IMO...though the MS can hardly take extra dips since it already needs lots of levels or some method of obtaining Dex-to-damage.

If you want to use Coat/Dagger Pistol/s: 1 level dip into Warpriest boosts their damage to 1d6 from 1d4, two level dip gives you 1d6 HP 1+Wis times a day as a swift action...This is really, really small but it is something. Maybe for stealthy campaigns, but in stealthy campaigns why are you using a firearm unless you have access to some method of making your work silent?

Oh right, Oil of Silence. So handy.

Also, instead of dipping Cavalier you could AM Barbarian Style things up and ride a synthasist.

1 Level dip into a Black Powder Inquisitor gives you Exotic Weapon Proficiency and gunsmithing...which is something you already possess but: "When you hit an arcane spellcaster or a creature that uses spell-like abilities with a firearm attack, that creature must succeed at a Fortitude saving throw. If the spellcaster fails, he takes a –4 penalty on concentration checks for 1 round." It also gives you wisdom to Knowledge checks in addition to Int, which is neat.

A second level dip provides you with Wisdom to Initiative

That is about it from what I can think of, though I need to consider some Rogue archetypes.

Lantern Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

As for dipping, 5 levels of Bolt Ace plus anything else gets the job done really, really well. Since dexterity becomes the really obvious high stat, TWF becomes very legit. And thankfully, the Endless Ammunition enchant takes care of any loading issues.

Hence, Ninja's (for SA and an extra attack with a ki point per round), Ranger (free TWF feats), or vivisectionist (you know, again, for the SA plus other goodies).

My personal favorite, however, is going 1 Warpriest, 5 Bolt Ace, X Warpriest. 3 evil deities from Inner Sea Gods have Hand Crossbows as their favored weapon, or there's a few other alignments that have Light Crossbows. There's even an archetype of warpriest that grants sneak attack, if so desired.


Ninjas/Rogues/general backstabby guys actually have a pretty nice TWF double barrel build already; get a Goz mask, throw a smoke bomb, start shootin' and sneakattackin everyone.

Something with Trench 3-5 in it can get it going quite nice.

Oh and bolt ace with sohei can also be pretty nice. Since Sohei can flurry with crossbows, and can rapid shot as well along with it.


Under the Snap Shot Feats, you write:

"Snap Shot, Improved, Greater Straight up perfect, threatening 5 to 10 feet around you will shock most foes who aren’t aware of it, although Greater is a weak step up from the other feats."

I may be misinterpreting the feat. But Snap Shot says you threaten five feet around you. Improved Snap Shot says you threaten an additional 10 feet with Snap Shot. So with Improved Snap Shot you threaten 15 ft., not 10.


Why do you think "Bracers of Falcon Aim" are so great? What do they give to pure Gunslingers?
Wouldn't it be nicer to have something like this:
[url]http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/seduc er-s-bane[/url]

Considering the bad consequences of being enchanted...

Or this:
[url]http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/arrow master-s-bracers[/url]

And for shoulders, look at this:
[url]http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/m-p/ponch o-gunfighter-s[/url]

What do you think of Cleric dipping for nice domains and spells like "Air Bubble"?


Jeremias wrote:

Why do you think "Bracers of Falcon Aim" are so great? What do they give to pure Gunslingers?

Wouldn't it be nicer to have something like this:
[url]http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/seduc er-s-bane[/url]

Considering the bad consequences of being enchanted...

Or this:
[url]http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/arrow master-s-bracers[/url]

And for shoulders, look at this:
[url]http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/m-p/ponch o-gunfighter-s[/url]

What do you think of Cleric dipping for nice domains and spells like "Air Bubble"?

Take another look at these 3 items, then look at the Bracers of Falcon's Aim. The key part is the price. The ones you're suggesting are quite good, but cost too much for what they do.

Air bubble is a good spell, but a dryload flask is also good. As is a helm of underwater action or similar things.

Sovereign Court

@Jolly: you mention several times how brutal the dual/double-barrel pistol thing is.

What are you talking about? What are you doing? Why is it so broken awesome?


@Gilarius

The Bracers would be dead weight on my gunslinger. It only works for crossbows.
And I compared my suggestions with the charm bracelet he suggested. :)

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber
Jeremias wrote:

@Gilarius

The Bracers would be dead weight on my gunslinger. It only works for crossbows.
And I compared my suggestions with the charm bracelet he suggested. :)

Some gunslingers are the Bolt Ace archetype. The bracers are solid gold for a bolt ace, if they are allowed in your game.

Silver Crusade

Kastar wrote:

Under the Snap Shot Feats, you write:

"Snap Shot, Improved, Greater Straight up perfect, threatening 5 to 10 feet around you will shock most foes who aren’t aware of it, although Greater is a weak step up from the other feats."

I may be misinterpreting the feat. But Snap Shot says you threaten five feet around you. Improved Snap Shot says you threaten an additional 10 feet with Snap Shot. So with Improved Snap Shot you threaten 15 ft., not 10.

Huh, way I read it was 10 feet, might have to look that up. It's still incredible regardless, since to me there's not a huge difference, but it's worth checking.

Jeremias wrote:

Why do you think "Bracers of Falcon Aim" are so great? What do they give to pure Gunslingers?

Wouldn't it be nicer to have something like this:
[url]http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/seduc er-s-bane[/url]

Considering the bad consequences of being enchanted...

Or this:
[url]http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/arrow master-s-bracers[/url]

And for shoulders, look at this:
[url]http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/m-p/ponch o-gunfighter-s[/url]

What do you think of Cleric dipping for nice domains and spells like "Air Bubble"?

I thought I listed that I only like Falcon's Aim for Bolt Aces, I'll have to look that over later. And those other items are really just more expensive, Bracers aren't really a good slot for Slingers.

And I'll admit my multiclassing section isn't the best, but Clerics aren't horrible dips for some fun domains and such.

Ascalaphus wrote:

@Jolly: you mention several times how brutal the dual/double-barrel pistol thing is.

What are you talking about? What are you doing? Why is it so broken awesome?

It's basically for a -4 to your attacks, you're doubling the number of attacks you can do with double barreled pistols. That's giving you some crazy output for your damage that's outside of the scope of this guide, really touching on DPR Olympics territory.

That's why I say that you can do it, but you shouldn't. I assume at least some people have heard of doing it, but I also want to warn for lower power games that a set up like that can be ugly.


Avoron wrote:
You could have, say, a gunslinger/druid/barbarian that turns into a Huge fire elemental and fires it with Vital Strike and Furious Finish for 192 base damage before any modifiers.

I'm trying to wrap my head around a huge, humanoid beast made entirely of flame successfully loading and firing a black powder weapon.

Shadow Lodge

Db firearms roughly add +50% dpr if misfires are considered and almost double dpr when the gunsligner gets to lvl 13. That can scare many dms specially the ones who particulary dont like the gunslinger or the touch attack mechanics


@N. Jolly
It could be my reading competence. But I thought you meant all 'slingers.


N. Jolly wrote:
OilHorse wrote:
What is CQC?

Why yes, I did assume everyone played MGS3. I really should have explained this, that's my fault.

CQC is Close Quarters Combat. I should probably spell that out somewhere in the guide, but it's referencing the style of combat used in Metal Gear Solid 3 in which one uses both a gun and knife to optimize close quarters combat interaction. It's generally performed with a knife/dagger and pistol, but sadly since clip sizes are non existent in this, it's impossible except for punching.

CQC is a real concept that predates MGS3 (Metal Gear Solid 3 I assume?) by several decades; while many readers won't be familiar with the term, it isn't a super-niche reference to a specific video game.

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