How exactly do you qualify an increase to a saving throw? Is it something that a character or NPC would be aware of?
Maybe it would help to have an example:
Cast a fireball with a Save of 16 vs a save of 20. Does the 16 fireball have less fire? Is the fire less hot? Or does the spell look/feel exactly the same both ways but the PC/NPC making the save is just like: WOW! I used to be able to handle this and now I can't?!?!?!
And while my example was Fireball which has a physical/visual manifestation how would it work with something that does NOT have that?
Suggestion cast with a 15 DC vs a 25 DC. Is the voice inside your head louder? More insistent? Do you feel one creeping up on your and shrug it off (maybe?) and the other one just stabs like a splinter in your mind?
My reasoning for this is that there is a player in my group that is using a homemade artifact (sword) that when drawn wishes for you to "claim a soul" the save starts off at 16 (and the fighter is level 11 now... so that isn't that big of a deal, I think she has a CHANCE to fail, but she is fairly confident that she can handle it) but every soul that the sword drinks placates it for the moment (essentially until it is put away the sword is satisfied with claiming a soul) but it also increases the save (i.e. the soul fuels the sword which ONLY desires to claim more souls).
At this point the fighter's save is 22 (pretty different from 16) and I am wondering if this is something that the wielder is aware of? Does she feel the ego of the sword increasing in power (it isn't reflected in any increased ability for the sword to do damage) or perhaps the taint of the blade is causing her to slip into madness?
Maybe a better question would be: How would other GMs deal with this situation? Should she be aware (she has claimed an innocent life with the blade-compulsed- AND continued to use it... so I shifted her alignment a step, but since then she has only used the blade AGAINST evil/opposing creatures in defense of others.)
Thoughts?
In regards to your "better question," I would definitely make the PC aware of the swords growing power and influence on her ("The once subtle, almost subconscious whisper of 'bring more souls' is now a booming command in your mind, roll Will" or something similar). That is unless of course the sword is intelligent enough to hold back and let the PC think she can control it until it is far too late.
I think when a Caster level increases that is one thing that is easier to qualify: a CL 10 fireball is a blasting inferno whereas a CL 6 is an adorable light show (a good example of this is Shiris vs. Cecil in Record of Lodoss Wars... she isn't impressed with his fireball)
But a CL 10 fireball with a 20 DC vs a CL 10 fireball with a 30 DC? On some level the PC/NPC has to be aware that one of those is WAY different right?
I told the player the way that the sword works (which wasn't an issue up until now because there was a priestess who was taking those souls out... she isn't going to be around anymore).
The description of the sword's ego/influence has always been: When the blade is drawn you hear: "Claim a soul!" with a successful save she was able to shrug it off and control herself, on a failure she has to claim a soul (kill something) which, in combat, means she can simply attack her nearest enemy and she usually is the one who gets the kill which placates the sword so she doesn't just turn on her teammates afterwards.
This is my specific question, but it also got me to thinking about how you typify saving throws in general... WILL saves especially don't have a real clear delineation in fantasy stuff that I have seen. Reflex saves and Fortitude saves are easier.
Generally, saving throw number isn't something I've ever had evident to a victim. Basically, you don't know an enemy has used Heighten Spell on a given fireball. You either succeed or you fail.
DCs are kind of meta; they're out-of-game knowledge. The player knows that he only needs to roll a 5 to control his sword, but the character just knows he's being tempted.
I don't think of DCs are how strong a spell is necessarily. That's governed by how much damage it does, or what its result is, say in comparing charm person and dominate person. I see the DC as a simple probability that a given person will succumb. You never know that until you fail...
The only way DCs become evident in my games is (as I say), failure. When a PC rolls really well and still fails a save, THEN they know the DC must have been really high. "Wow! My rogue was doing cartwheels and backflips to evade some of that blast and still got whalluped in the face!" Never before or in a success.
But that's my interpretation. It's not in the rules so you're free to do what you want for drama's sake. Of course, not knowing the DC might be more dramatic.
General consensus (which has caveats and asterisks and some exceptions based on circumstance): DC is NOT related to any awareness that a PC has about a saving throw.
I am going to consider this my stance until further information is presented to disavow it.
Thanks for the assist
Normally I'd agree with you, but in this particular case of a progressively increasing DC, I would ABSOLUTELY let the character somehow know that it's getting harder to ignore the suggestion. It's much more dramatic to watch the character try to decide if the risk is too great than to just suddenly go too far. In fiction, the character's friends are often the ones to notice the change, and can bring that to attention, so you might want to give them a sense motive check rather than just say the fighter senses her sword's getting stronger.
Start having the sword not be satisfied with just one kill per draw, too.
Because this is a persistent source of a consistent save I would allow players to notice that they feel it becoming more difficult to resist. But only because otherwise it could really harm a player character and generally its bad form not to give players some kind of warning.
But otherwise, I agree with the general sentiment that the DC is a metaconstruct that characters cannot really infer.
Lol, alright. So this would be an exception to the rule due to it being a prolonged consistent exposure (granted she has been using this sword for several months and has experienced the influence multiple times so if it is now getting stronger that might be something she would notice).
Again, it's all about the drama. Don't let the rules restrict story-telling. Personally I'm not sure which would be more dramatic... sudden failure or escalating fear. Certainly, knowing things are getting harder is dramatic but on the other hand, dealing with the repercussions of an eventually failed save is also very dramatic. Up to you.
High DC Reflex = fills more of its defined area.
High DC Fortitude = affects a wider portion of the target's body.
High DC Will = Target feels like a mouse standing before a large predator, but may not be consciously aware, depending on the effect.