Would these two abilities stack at thus provide a +6 to Aid Another checks? Or would they simply overlap each other? I would like to hear your thoughts and/or previous rulings that I cannot seem to find!
Helpful (Halfling) [Link]
Source Halflings of Golarion pg. 30 (Amazon)
Requirement(s) Halfling
You see nothing wrong with letting others achieve greatness so long as the job gets done. Whenever you successfully perform an aid another action, you grant your ally a +4 bonus instead of the normal +2.
Improved Aid is an ability of the Pathfinder Chronicler.
Improved Aid (Ex): Pathfinder chroniclers frequently serve as the companions of great heroes, standing by their sides and recording their deeds, but often lending a crucial helping hand. Starting at 3rd level, a Pathfinder chronicler using the aid another action grants a +4 bonus, rather than the normal +2.
I can definitely see both sides of the argument, but I just do not know which is the correct ruling. This would potentially be for a PFS character, so I would like to know the actual rule and not "ask you GM".
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Unfortunately, for PFS, as both of them use substitution, rather than giving a bonus to Aid Another, it would be +4 from either of them.
They are both "grant a +4 bonus" in place of "the normal +2". If either of them were, instead, you gain a +2 trait/untyped bonus to the bonus you grant from your Aid Another actions, then they could stack.
Unfortunately, for PFS, as both of them use substitution, rather than giving a bonus to Aid Another, it would be +4 from either of them.
They are both "grant a +4 bonus" in place of "the normal +2". If either of them were, instead, you gain a +2 trait/untyped bonus to the bonus you grant from your Aid Another actions, then they could stack.
Okay, that's what I was thinking, but was not sure if I was missing something. What are your thoughts on the cavalier Order of the Dragon working with either is these abilities?
Aid Allies (Ex): At 2nd level, whenever an order of the dragon cavalier uses the aid another action to assist one of his allies, the ally receives a +3 bonus to his Armor Class, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check. At 8th level, and every six levels thereafter, this bonus increases by an additional +1.
It doesn't specify, but it leads me to believe that it should be +1 bonus to Aid Another at certain levels as opposed to a replacent.
The reason I ask is that I'm looking to make a support character with Aid Another bonus and whip mastery for battlefield control to implement trips and disarms. Thanks for any input!
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Unfortunately, for PFS, as both of them use substitution, rather than giving a bonus to Aid Another, it would be +4 from either of them.
They are both "grant a +4 bonus" in place of "the normal +2". If either of them were, instead, you gain a +2 trait/untyped bonus to the bonus you grant from your Aid Another actions, then they could stack.
Okay, that's what I was thinking, but was not sure if I was missing something. What are your thoughts on the cavalier Order of the Dragon working with either is these abilities?
Aid Allies (Ex): At 2nd level, whenever an order of the dragon cavalier uses the aid another action to assist one of his allies, the ally receives a +3 bonus to his Armor Class, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check. At 8th level, and every six levels thereafter, this bonus increases by an additional +1.It doesn't specify, but it leads me to believe that it should be +1 bonus to Aid Another at certain levels as opposed to a replacent.
The reason I ask is that I'm looking to make a support character with Aid Another bonus and whip mastery for battlefield control to implement trips and disarms. Thanks for any input!
That one, unfortunately, is going to fall into the realm of ETV, expect table variation.
It can be taken either way for the initial change, and, until higher levels, may be treated as a null modification, or a simple replacement, like the other abilities.
Faelyn - RAI is that it increases it by 1, I'm pretty sure. RAW, you'd probably apply the highest replacement then at 8th level and every 6 after that value would be bumped by 1... so +4 at level 1, +5 at level 6, etc. RAI increases that by one more.
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It doesn't work. All of them set your aid another bonus to a specific number.
The first two change the value from 2 to 4. If the value isn't 2 to begin with, they can't change it.
The dragon doesn't care about the previous value, just sets it to a specific number. So it'll block (if applied first) or override (if applied second) when you combine it with either of those other abilities.
Compare this to the Intercept ability of the Honor Guard cavalier archetype.
Intercept (Ex): At 3rd level, an honor guard learns to better disrupt the attacks of his enemies. He gains Bodyguard (Advanced Player’s Guide 151) as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisite. In addition, whenever the honor guard uses the aid another action to increase an ally’s Armor Class, the bonus to Armor Class granted by the aid another action increases by +1. This ability replaces cavalier’s charge.
This one could stack with one of those value-setting abilities, but only if you apply them in the right order. Consider:
Helpful: +2 becomes +4
Intercept: increase the bonus by +1
result: +5 bonus
Intercept: increase bonus by +1
Helpful: +2 would become +4, but it's not +2 anymore so doesn't work
result: +3 bonus
Dragon: bonus becomes +(3+((level-2)/6))
Intercept: bonus increases by 1
result: +(4+((level-2)/6))
Intercept: bonus increases by 1
Dragon: bonus becomes +(3+((level-2)/6))
result: +(3+((level-2)/6))
I'm not sure if you have any freedom in what order you apply these modifiers; I'd say let the player controlling the character (or GM, if it's an NPC) pick the most advantageous one.
Gotcha! Thanks for all the input everyone.