If a player with a familiar wanted to use Improved familiar to add a template to an existing familiar would you allow it ?
Depends on the template
Based on what...CR ?
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It does depend heavily on WHAT template it is and if there's a reason for it. I'm a pretty flexible DM, so probably a reasonable one, sure. CR is too static of a thing to base it on, imo... it would have to be done, as Pleiades said, case-by-case.
What template are we talking about?
I'd let the player make his case, it sounds like it could be fun :)
-Nearyn
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Several Improved Familiars (usually regular animals) gain Celestial/Fiendish template as I recall right. There is nothing wrong with those as they are working as intended.
If you however meant something like adding Fiendish Template to a Imp, it would probably make more resistant then deadly familiar and is completely within your limits to not allow it if you wish.
Depends on the template!
Edit: i assume it is giant or advanced or one of Those? Since we Got a question instead of just the template. Am i rigth?
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Normally i dont like templates. The template bloat of 3.5 made me kind of sick of it when every player wanted to be templated, and considering how there were +0 templates there was no reason no to take one. In pathfinder i would allow it if it really merits the story, again it depends on the template and how powerful it could be
Yeah it really all depends on the specific template and going just by CR without build context is pretty meaningless. Not all things of the same CR are created equal paradoxically enough.
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So, what's it gonna be, a lich cat or a mythic agile goat? :p
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I ran a group of 5 through the old 3.0 Temple of Elemental Evil a few years ago and due to some of the story let one of the players take a small air elemental as his familiar. Eventually he spent the leadership feat to take the elemental as his familiar and cohort. It was a bit powerful, but not at all game-breaking, and he had a lot of fun with it.
I've been considering allowing this for a select few templates that are thematic. FOr example:
Shadow template: same progression as celestial & fiendish, so no problem.
Counterpoised: Like celestial & fiendish, but for TN
(similar lawful & chaotic templates)
I've been looking for other similar templates, but I havent thought about it much yet. I would only allow it for animals mind you, as is normal for the celestial & fiendish.
I would like to not that there are a few feats that allow you to add such templates "normally", such as celestial servant.
In this case, my general rule is: does it progress like the celestial & fiendish templates? Yes? Then I allow it with animal familiars (through improved familiar).
What's the campaign's power level?
Adding Advanced to any familiar is over-powered, but familiars are generally so weak that it rarely effects combat a ton.
What template are we talking about?
Fey animal template is the one currently under consideration :)
Basically a matter of turning a Witches cat into the Cheshire Cat...
Except that familiars use their master's hit dice as their own.
The SLAs are already limited by the creature's hit dice. Familiars don't gain hit die as their master levels up, so we're looking at a creature that can cast charm person and Faerie Fire. That's well in line with other familiars.
That was my first thought too, but I just double checked the exact wording.
"Hit Dice: For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master's character level or the familiar's normal HD total, whichever is higher."
Does anyone else interpret that as the familiar could get all those spell-like abilities? For comparison, does a Fiendish or Celestial Familiar get better DR and Resistances?
Links for anyone interested
Fey Animal Template
Familiar Rules
Half-Dragon and Fey Animal aren't any worse than Half-Fiend and Half-Celestial honestly - I'd allow it.
If they wanted to do something crazy, like Lycnathrope... eeeeeeh, that's kinda pushing it.
Eerr...ya...NO liches, Lycanthropes, etc...etc...
Just wanted to make it a fey creature as opposed to a normal cat...
I would not allow it. Multiple big stat boosts, DR, SR, +10 to all movement forms, the stackable Death Curse supernatural ability and many powerful SLAs make this a very powerful template. Also you must figure the CR of the creature to calculate it's SR and the CL of it's SLAs. What is the CR of a templeted familiar?
Oh, wait, just Celestial, Fiendish, Resolute, etc.
Yeah... maybe not Half-Dragon then; that's +2
The presented creatures with templates have a "+0 to +1" Template (for some reason I translated "Fiendish" as "Half-Fiend" which is... a LOT more powerful).
In keeping with the design, I'd say Choose one of the +0 templates as a possible template.
Or grab a Faerie Dragon. They're already Fae.
Unless you want a Cat Si, in which case... yeah, fey is more appropriate, but it may be a bit much power-wise - go with Entropic if you can't find anything else (faeries are generally chaotic little buggers).
Silvanshee and Dweomercat Cub are legal magical cat options for Improved Familiar at 7th level.
I would not allow the fay animal template. But i would allow a custom made cat that could do some of this stuff, inspired by the normal improved familiers but, with out the scaling SLAs.
"Death Curse can stack with other fey animals' Death Curses but the familiar can't stack its own infinitely." Thanks for the clarification Kestral, I missed that.
I think the Silvanshee would work well reskinned as a Cheshire Cat.
I've always found the improved familiar feat to not really be worth the effort. This would make it truly worth it.
However, it is a lot more than the player should be getting based on the investment. I'd allow it, but the familiar would perpetually be one level behind (so a 7th level caster takes this feat and the familiar would count as 6th level until leveling). This also delays when the spell-likes are gained. The player gains a powerful ally, but not without a cost.
Your question should have been, "what would get you to say yes to this?" People are all to eager to say no to anything.
How about you use the faerie dragon stats and say it looks like the chesire cat? that would solve your problems
+1.
I was thinking the same. The Fey template is really strong with those SLA's.
Effects related to hit dice are things for things like the sleep spell. It doesn't actually make the base familiar creature have those hit dice.
So you would get DR 5/cold iron, SR of about 12, charm person and fairy fire and the static stuff that goes every fey creature.
Fairly balanced with other improved familiars.
Effects related to hit dice are things for things like the sleep spell. It doesn't actually make the base familiar creature have those hit dice.
So you would get DR 5/cold iron, SR of about 12, charm person and fairy fire and the static stuff that goes every fey creature.
Fairly balanced with other improved familiars.
If that is how it is read yes then no problem but the Line from the book:
"Hit Dice: For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master's character level or the familiar's normal HD total, whichever is higher."Hints that the rules would treat the HD of the cat as the wizards HD.