Aikidoka |
Hi everybody.
So I'm arguing with my GM over the effect reincarnation has on mental stats.
I read in an old thread that James Jacobs had weighed in on a thread back in the day. Can anyone link me to that as my GM said he'd go by that.
For those that are interested I say that my elf will retain his +2 to int when he dies and becomes one of the magic mystery races (probably kobald). As I am the only one that is willing to risk this in our party and things are getting more lethal in the campaign I'd like to be on less thin ice around how the mechanics work.
Swashbucklersdc |
Your answer is in the spell itself...
A reincarnated creature recalls the majority of its former life and form. It retains any class abilities, feats, or skill ranks it formerly possessed. Its class, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and hit points are unchanged. Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores depend partly on the new body. First eliminate the subject's racial adjustments (since it is no longer necessarily of his previous race) and then apply the adjustments found below to its remaining ability scores.
Only your physical ability scores change. Drop the bonus or penalty to your physical ability scores based on your previous race then apply the bonus and penalties in the chart. Your metal ability scores do not change what so ever...
Arcanic Drake |
Your answer is in the spell itself...
A reincarnated creature recalls the majority of its former life and form. It retains any class abilities, feats, or skill ranks it formerly possessed. Its class, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and hit points are unchanged. Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores depend partly on the new body. First eliminate the subject's racial adjustments (since it is no longer necessarily of his previous race) and then apply the adjustments found below to its remaining ability scores.
Only your physical ability scores change. Drop the bonus or penalty to your physical ability scores based on your previous race then apply the bonus and penalties in the chart. Your metal ability scores do not change what so ever...
Yep, pretty much. You keep all of your mental and change your physical with added racial modifiers.
Bronnwynn |
According to Paizo, the size, shape and chemical composition of a creature's brain has no affect on its mental capabilities.
<sarcasm>Seems legit.</sarcasm>
"And where did you learn physics, Neo?"
"... the Matrix."
"Exactly."
".... can i get a physics text book please."
"No, Neo. The universe doesn't run on physics."
Torchlyte |
According to Paizo, the size, shape and chemical composition of a creature's brain has no affect on its mental capabilities.
<sarcasm>Seems legit.</sarcasm>
And let's not get started on the whole magic thing.
Edit: Looking at it from another angle, would you argue that a squirrel-polymorphed character should have his mental stats adjusted?
Edit 2: That kind of reminds me of Animorphs.
Barathos |
Barathos wrote:According to Paizo, the size, shape and chemical composition of a creature's brain has no affect on its mental capabilities.
<sarcasm>Seems legit.</sarcasm>
"And where did you learn physics, Neo?"
"... the Matrix."
"Exactly."
".... can i get a physics text book please."
"No, Neo. The universe doesn't run on physics."
Not getting what some light Matrix fan-fiction has to do with me mocking Paizo for illogical rules. Mind elaborating?
@Torchlyte
If that was so, wouldn't a reincarnated being who enters an anti-magic field either become intellectually inept or simply collapse dead?
@Torchlyte's edit
Perhaps polymorph is magical for the duration of the effect, while reincarnation is only magical during the creation and filling of the new body, but ceases to be magic and becomes simply ordinary or extraordinary after the spell has finished.
Bronnwynn |
Bronnwynn wrote:Not getting what some light Matrix fan-fiction has to do with me mocking Paizo for illogical rules. Mind elaborating?Barathos wrote:According to Paizo, the size, shape and chemical composition of a creature's brain has no affect on its mental capabilities.
<sarcasm>Seems legit.</sarcasm>
"And where did you learn physics, Neo?"
"... the Matrix."
"Exactly."
".... can i get a physics text book please."
"No, Neo. The universe doesn't run on physics."
Same sort of assumption that the game world is the same as the world you know. Your synapses simply wouldn't map to another brain, if you want to get realistic about it - but hey, magic.
Barathos |
Barathos wrote:Same sort of assumption that the game world is the same as the world you know. Your synapses simply wouldn't map to another brain, if you want to get realistic about it - but hey, magic.Bronnwynn wrote:Not getting what some light Matrix fan-fiction has to do with me mocking Paizo for illogical rules. Mind elaborating?Barathos wrote:According to Paizo, the size, shape and chemical composition of a creature's brain has no affect on its mental capabilities.
<sarcasm>Seems legit.</sarcasm>
"And where did you learn physics, Neo?"
"... the Matrix."
"Exactly."
".... can i get a physics text book please."
"No, Neo. The universe doesn't run on physics."
So selective realism on both mine and Paizo's part? OK.
"Magic's just science that we don't understand yet."-Arthur C. Clarke
It's science if it can be repeated and studied with consistent results, which is exactly what a wizards, arcanists and alchemists do.
Torchlyte |
Arthur C. Clarke didn't write Pathfinder and his opinion has no logical basis (because magic doesn't exist).
Also, I definitely wasn't clear enough with my prior comment. I meant that you are already suspending disbelief because magic exists in this fictional world. Not to mention a bunch of other animals that would be physically impossible (yet continue to function in an AMF, if we go that route).
Barathos |
Arthur C. Clarke didn't write Pathfinder and his opinion has no logical basis (because magic doesn't exist).
Also, I definitely wasn't clear enough with my prior comment. I meant that you are already suspending disbelief because magic exists in this fictional world. Not to mention a bunch of other animals that would be physically impossible (yet continue to function in an AMF, if we go that route).
You're mostly right. I was looking to have a discussion on why a rule is/isn't illogical but I suppose that belongs in the houserule board. The physics being different is not the same as suspension of disbelief.
You lot have fun.
DarkPhoenixx |
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I was looking to have a discussion on why a rule is/isn't illogical but I suppose that belongs in the houserule board. The physics being different is not the same as suspension of disbelief.
You lot have fun.
While i see your point pathfinder universe made with concept that there is "body" and "soul" (unless you are outsider in which case it is same thing) and mental stats are tied to "soul". This is why you can shoot someone's brain off, but it does not prevent him to remember information if you Speak With Dead (unless you smash his mouth so he cannot speak).
In our world there is no soul/ways-to-detect-soul, so it work differently.Or at least this is how i understand it.
Swashbucklersdc |
Ok, I get how the spell reads but my gm is swayed by the people on the internet that can't understand paragraphs.
Can anyone link that James Jacob piece which is what I actually need?
If we must...
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k5h3&page=1?Reincarnate-clarification#0
It's the 5th post, hope that helps, =)
Cevah |
Aikidoka wrote:Ok, I get how the spell reads but my gm is swayed by the people on the internet that can't understand paragraphs.
Can anyone link that James Jacob piece which is what I actually need?
If we must...
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k5h3&page=1?Reincarnate-clarification#0
It's the 5th post, hope that helps, =)
/cevah