Discussion of Tontelizi, who has some ally related powers, but has a low cap on how many allies he can hold in his deck (an issue that can be mitigated if other party members are willing to had off some of their allies every game), raises a few questions:
1) To what extent do you like to play in ways that help other characters or improve overall chances at victory, but weaken or reduce the game presence of your own character in the process--- e.g. giving away cards, constructing one's deck to include cards specifically to enable other characters (like Call Weapon on weaponless casters), using all your cures on Ranzak so he ends up exploring vastly more than you, carrying extra potions in your deck just to give to to Damiel every game, etc.?
2) What degree of cooperation should the designers balance the game around? A perfect party hydra of selfless coordination, as will mostly arise in solo play (where it doesn't matter to anyone's fun if Oloch never explores, only heals and gives Ranzak boosts every round), more natural social play where each player wants a reasonable share of the game time to involve their character *doing stuff*, or something in between?
For my part, I lean toward the party hydra model, but I also play a decent proportion of my games with characters who benefit from that as solo games. I wouldn't mind if their were some elegant official methods of raising or lowering difficulty to compensate for stronger/weaker parties (and help address the shifting difficulty from the snowball effect of strong parties having an easier time getting stronger, while weaker parties have to focus more on winning, and have less slack to try for extra loot).
1. A lot. I think I like helping others more than I like helping myself. But it is even better when you do both. When I played Ezren, I loved using Swipe, Codex and Monkey to acquire cards with the Magic trait. Often those cards weren't very good for Ezren. I enjoyed that all the more. "Hey Valeros, you know that sword you've been trying to acquire? I picked this up for you over at the Shimmer Glens. Here you go." I like spells that help others very, very much.
2. I have no idea. Since it is mostly character dependent, I think a mix among the characters of different approaches to play would be best. While some characters are more "support" oriented and others more "self" focused, some characters have a mix of both. It is a spectrum really. And there are cards you can acquire or powers you can choose to move your character up and down that spectrum.
So, wherever they are hitting right now, I think that is a pretty good spot. I think they should keep hitting that spot.
We tend to play supportive a lot.
In my current S&S game (which, ironically, is two RotR characters), Ezren has an Aid to hand off to Lini, a Parrot that he usually uses but CAN hand off to Lini, a loot weapon (harpoon something or another) to use or more likely hand off to Lini, and Call Weapon for that same Harpoon and for when someone else joins in, which is about a third of the time. (Lini Cures, Aids, and blesses Ezren, so it's not all one-sided.) We also divvy up the Arcane/Divine combat spells fairly evenly between us.
My favorite game to date was one with RotR Seoni and RotR Lem in RotR, with modified banes for added difficulty and 6 locations for these two players. We played much like a Ranzak & Oloch team - Lem supported the crap out of Seoni with the Bard power, Cures, Incendiary Clouds, Aids (dropped for the next card), and Restorations, not to mention blessings. Seoni pretty much just powered through crap like a boss.
Typically, I like to play support characters that still hold their own, and carefully plan out synergy and long-term strategy for the party - I try to encourage players to form a balanced party, hold on to cards for other players that need them, hand out their second weapons, gather blessings that help the party's deficiencies rather than just the best ones for their combat, and so on.
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As a facilitator for OP, I feel like I have to play characters that can support other party members. (I have yet to play a cleric, though!) And that's the play style I have with all my characters. I can't always count on the group to be completely cooperative but for the most part we are. There are many times where I'll burn a blessing or an ally to make a check on a card that someone else could use (for an upgrade). And a few of the players do that as well.
I don't think it should be assumed that the party will cooperate completely. There is competition amongst a few of the players at times. But it is a coop game. And like Hawkmoon said, it is character dependent. Some characters won't be as helpful overall as others. But you can sometimes gear a character to be better party support than others. A fighter won't always be as well-rounded a helper as a cleric. But he can put his feats into powers that benefit others. Just like the ranger can put feats into ranged combat to help others.
But if you don't build a character that can stand on their own then it tends to be a drain on party resources. And that's where I see the most failures. When a majority of characters require support from others to progress.
We mostly play with 2 players but 4 or 6 characters. In that sort of setting, I'm happy to have one of my characters just acting as support, so long as I actually get to do something with the others.
If there's a boon that would be very good for an extra character, and there's actually a decent chance of getting it (i.e. not RotR Valeros rolling for a high-level divine spell), we'll put cards into getting them, because it makes life easier long-term.
If I was actually one of six players in a six-character game, I think I'd be more wary about supporting others to the extent that my character couldn't explore, just because I'd get bored sat there doing nothing.
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We mostly play with 2 players but 4 or 6 characters. In that sort of setting, I'm happy to have one of my characters just acting as support, so long as I actually get to do something with the others.
If there's a boon that would be very good for an extra character, and there's actually a decent chance of getting it (i.e. not RotR Valeros rolling for a high-level divine spell), we'll put cards into getting them, because it makes life easier long-term.
If I was actually one of six players in a six-character game, I think I'd be more wary about supporting others to the extent that my character couldn't explore, just because I'd get bored sat there doing nothing.
Playing solo or playing the base game with extra characters really is a different dynamic than OP. I can agree with you that if you're playing with a static group or by yourself, you're definitely going to approach gathering boons from a different perspective than if you're part of an OP group that is a little fluid. But I feel like I have to play the same for any group I'm playing in since I want these people to enjoy the game and continue playing. I have ulterior motives.
Plus as you're playing OP, you get to know the individuals that are playing and you know who would benefit more from boons than others. (Okay, this guy really needs to upgrade his weapons. This one needs better spells.) So I'll make the extra effort when I see a potential upgrade come along. The other part about OP is that you're not as concerned about the actual card being acquired as much as the card type and level.
But while playing the base game and AP, the actual cards are important. I wish I had more time to play the AP.
1) It’s OK to help other characters, however it really hurts if you lose your free explore each turn (especially in a 6 person game, which will probably be the norm for organized play). You need to be able to explore at least once per round with a reasonable chance of success.
Also, I find that support characters aren’t always able to be supportive in every circumstance (or not as optimally as I’d like). For that reason I strongly prefer characters that are solid in solo play with some support.
If you know who you’re playing with, it makes a lot of sense to trade cards etc if it makes you better as a team. Unless you travel and play with the same people all the time, could be a problem with OP.
When I build characters for new players (I’ve introduced 8 people to the game and will introduce another 16 next month), I try not to make characters support-only, because of what I said above, but also because it’s boring for most people to play. Some support is good, all support is bad.
I’ve had some new players bummed out because they could only explore once per round (Amiri compared to a Seoni who can burn through her deck fast and explore multiple times per round).
2) As I said above, I don’t think playing a “support only” character is optimal (if you lose your free explore or have limited ability for success), so however Paizo balances the game is fine.
But at the end of the day, everyone is free to play however they like, there’s no right or wrong.
We are a long standing group of 6 that play extremely cooperatively, but we rarely ever exchange cards, and especially not blessings or allies with extra explores.
In 6 player groups you have to spread out and immediately get to work exploring the best locations for your characters, so being in the right location to give a card to a player that needs it can actively slow you down if they are in a bad location for you.
Giving away blessings and allies means removing your own ability to explore for free, and there better be a damn good reason to do so. We are even hesitant to make our Oloch use up his first exploration for a cure unless he REALLY needs to.
However now that I think about it, my Ranzak could give one of his guns to Damiel if he has it so he can have a weapon in hand at all times.
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hail hydra
We are a long standing group of 6 that play extremely cooperatively, but we rarely ever exchange cards, and especially not blessings or allies with extra explores.
In 6 player groups you have to spread out and immediately get to work exploring the best locations for your characters, so being in the right location to give a card to a player that needs it can actively slow you down if they are in a bad location for you.
Giving away blessings and allies means removing your own ability to explore for free, and there better be a damn good reason to do so. We are even hesitant to make our Oloch use up his first exploration for a cure unless he REALLY needs to.
However now that I think about it, my Ranzak could give one of his guns to Damiel if he has it so he can have a weapon in hand at all times.
But if you happen to be in the same place as Ranzak (quite likely, given his evade power) you could hand him the explore card. He may very well get two explores out of it, after all.
hail hydra
*Throws something at Randarak*
On your left!
Those star-spangled shields hurt...
We party hydra mostly. But we still like our loot enough that we'll negotiate what we have.
But if it helps others, we know we'll be playing with each other often enough to get the help back so we do it.
We'll see what happens when I actually run OP and get more random groups.