Adding a "thin sheet of lead" to armor?


Advice

Scarab Sages

Just wonder, all the detect spells can be denied by a thin sheet of lead. How do I add it to armor? Are their rules for this?

I'm just thinking that a tower shield that grants total concealment would be pretty awesome if it had a "thin sheet of lead" in it somewhere.


I feel like you could do it, but it would be very difficult to not leave cracks of skin showing through. If I see even the slightest bit of skin (face, hands, anything really) then I feel like Detect would still work on you. Might be harder to see, requiring a perception check to spot the aura seeping out through your torn left knee joint, but I'm sure to be closely scrutinizing any person who has no aura at all anyways. I feel like enchanting a shirt of "I look good now, right?" would be easier than trying to use lead. Lead breaks down too easily with wear, after a few weeks of adventuring (or one particularly brutal forced march followed by a heavy combat) you'd have too many holes for it to really do much but cause cancer.

EDIT: Assuming logic out the window, I'd make it a craft armor check with a DC equal to repairing the armor. Shouldn't be that dissimilar a process to add a second, presumably interior, layer. I'd charge the same amount of gold, give or take, because while I'm working with less expensive and more malleable materials, I'm also "repairing" the whole thing instead of a few sword puncture marks. It's far easier to reduce this to a craft check than it would be to try to dissect it down to how it should have to be done.

There is an Angelskin Armor that I know of, the wearer detects as good. For that, it's a craft leather armor check and you need to hunt down and kill an Angel. Sadly, you can't summon one, those just vanish with no body to my knowledge.

Sovereign Court

Adding some value to both the weight and armor check penalties would be a good way to rule-of-thumb for the side-effects of modifying armor in such a way.


Should be doable considering in pathfinder there would be anti caster tactics. Would probably add like 10-20lbs at least and increase armor check penalties

Liberty's Edge

Shiroi wrote:
but I'm sure to be closely scrutinizing any person who has no aura at all anyways.

That's probably about 90% of the population, since most classes don't gain an aura til 5th level.

Scarab Sages

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As I read it, they wouldn't detect anything behind the lead, but the caster would also have no means of detecting the lead blocking the casting.

So you could have it only affect sections of armor, to only conceal magic items/creatures behind those portions only.

Obviously, it would stop working if shield/armor was broken.

As for working the lead into the shield/armor from a craft standpoint, two ways come to mind as a person with metal working experience.

-layer it in between two layers of the shield/armor's metal. Would mean mean you'd have to make it this way originally. This would add little weight, perhaps that 1lb per point of base AC (4lbs for a tower shields, in example). In this case, probably add a fire vulnerability to the shield itself, as heating the metal could cause the shield to seperate the two layers due to the expanding lead.

-Pouring hot model over the shield, then hammering it to ensure it stays in place. This would add loads of weight, but could be done on the spot, after having encountered an opponent which demands such measures be attempted. Maybe 5 lbs per point of AC in the base item (20lbs for a tower shield). This one would be both obvious to observation and dangerous around flame, as melting the lead would cause it to drip into the armor. Probably add fire vulnerability to the wearer of such armor. That said, shouldn't risk damaging the armor, as the molten lead wouldn't even damage steel's temper.

Scarab Sages

Deighton Thrane wrote:
Shiroi wrote:
but I'm sure to be closely scrutinizing any person who has no aura at all anyways.
That's probably about 90% of the population, since most classes don't gain an aura til 5th level.

Remember that the detect alignment spells don't "show you" the alignments of characters like on an overlay of your sight, it's closer to smell in function.

1st round detects presence of auras in the cone of the spell.

2nd round distinguishes the number of auras in 1st round.

3rd round pinpoints the location of the auras which were tallied in the previous round.

If totally concealed by lead, you'd:

1st round detects presence of auras other than those concealed by lead..

2nd+ round wouldn't include the person concealed from the spell.

Grand Lodge

Layering it on armour would only work if the armour enclosed you completely, including nostrils and eyes. A tower shield might feasibly block detection when, in fact, you have it set to provide you total cover, and I might charge about 30 gp for such an addition.

Scarab Sages

Starglim wrote:
Layering it on armour would only work if the armour enclosed you completely, including nostrils and eyes. A tower shield might feasibly block detection when, in fact, you have it set to provide you total cover, and I might charge about 30 gp for such an addition.

I was thinking about concealing magic items from detect magic, not alignment detection. Maybe to conceal which skeleton has the lich's phylactery, for example.

Tower shields employed to grant total concealment, yeah, those are the only ones for alignment detection. Even then, wildly impractical for most applications. Maybe if your evil outsider needed to sneak past a bunch of paladins...


Starglim wrote:
Layering it on armour would only work if the armour enclosed you completely, including nostrils and eyes. A tower shield might feasibly block detection when, in fact, you have it set to provide you total cover, and I might charge about 30 gp for such an addition.

I don't see why this would need to be the case. Angelskin is a special material that reduces the effectiveness of alignment detection. It just needs to be worked into armors, not some sort of body glove.

It seems to work on the principal of weakening or breaking up an aura enough that it is undetectable unless it is really strong.

If I were going to come up with a way to implement lead lined armors, I'd use the Angelskin mechanics as a base.


Sadly woven lead won't work or you could have clothing and masks of it. kinda like that lame-ish Cap'n America villian


Xedrek wrote:
Should be doable considering in pathfinder there would be anti caster tactics. Would probably add like 10-20lbs at least and increase armor check penalties

Possibly add a LOT more, depending on how much lead your GM decides is needed.

Lead is about 700 lbs per cubic foot.

-j


A cubic foot of metal is enough to make about six entire suits of armor. Maybe more.

Seriously, that's a metric buttload of metal.

Scarab Sages

Jason Wu wrote:
Xedrek wrote:
Should be doable considering in pathfinder there would be anti caster tactics. Would probably add like 10-20lbs at least and increase armor check penalties

Possibly add a LOT more, depending on how much lead your GM decides is needed.

Lead is about 700 lbs per cubic foot.

-j

You don't need a cubic foot.

For context, detect evil uses:

Quote:


The spell can penetrate barriers, but 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it

So, it's pretty clear that a cubic foot would be overkill. An inch is also clearly overkill. It calls for a thin sheet. Sheet metal can get pretty thin. Less than a milimeter is downright reasonable for sheet metal.

That said, it does depend how the PCs are applying the lead. If the plan is to poor molten lead on the armor it will be much thicker than a thin sheet they rolled out with giant steel rollers of a fabrication shop.

Scarab Sages

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Here, found a site selling lead sheeting: http://www.rotometals.com/Lead-Sheet-s/31.htm

Site is selling it for acoustic shielding. No clue how detect magic works, but 1 lb for per square foot of 1/64" material.

I think my 1 lb per point of AC makes enough sense.


No rules that i know of. So it is in the talk to the GM department.


I would rather think of a way how to get constant misdirection (ring of misdirection). Or if you want to hide your evil aura - wearing shirt made out of angel skin beneath the armor.
How come no one put a link to order of the stick - how that halfling got rid of that paladin's detect evil?


All I know is it shouldn't be less than a ring of mindshielding. Because thats already an item, and this suggestion is essentially a slotless version of that.


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This and this needs to be in this thread.


Paladins all shoot ethics radiation from their eyeballs. Its science.

Grand Lodge

Thetheos beat me to it


I would rule it as
1 pound per point of AC.
Item must be of masterwork quality, but does not get the -1 armor check that most MW items get.
10% chance of divination failure per point of AC if worn.
If placed such that total concealment is given, tower shield or magic item hidden under the armor, then divination fails.


The only problem with adding a thin sheet to the outer layer is that as the armor takes a beating the thin sheet of lead is cut into more and more. Then, at what point are there enough cuts deep enough into the thin sheet to be ineffective?


justaworm wrote:

The only problem with adding a thin sheet to the outer layer is that as the armor takes a beating the thin sheet of lead is cut into more and more. Then, at what point are there enough cuts deep enough into the thin sheet to be ineffective?

I'd say that should fall into the same abstracted-away area as any other type of battle damage.


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As someone who has handled lead backed sheetrock in real life, it's REALLY heavy. It added 4 pounds per sq. foot because it was 1/16th of an inch thick. Picture a sheet as big as one piece of standard sheetrock or plywood,i.e. 32 sq. feet, and that's 128 pounds extra. I'll let the tailors out there tell us how much we'd need for a suit of armor.

The thickness 1/16th was for x-ray deflection and looks pretty thin to me. YMMV as to what thin means in Pathfinder terms.


I'd like to interject a note to the OP, that regardless of the implications or possibility of Lead being used in this case... 1 inch thick metal. Your skeletal minions don't really care how uncomfortable or unfashionable their armor is. Load them with a heavy breastplate and use imperial glue to weld your phylactery to the inside of one. Better, stick it in a leadlined box, then do that.


Obviously the perfect use of the FAQ function, guys!

(not really)


And at what point do you start incurring Con saves against lead poisoning?


TheTheos wrote:

I would rather think of a way how to get constant misdirection (ring of misdirection). Or if you want to hide your evil aura - wearing shirt made out of angel skin beneath the armor.

How come no one put a link to order of the stick - how that halfling got rid of that paladin's detect evil?

I think mundane solutions to complicated problems can a bit cooler than just putting on a magic item. Also can't spellcraft lead


Our group generally allows this as a +1 ability you can add to magic armor; i.e. the cheapest being +2 armor. This is pretty expensive considering the cheapness of lead, but the cost helps offset the fact you aren't completely enclosed or worrying about casual wear and tear.

Shadow Lodge

Just wear a lead-sheet apron over your armour

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